7x64 cartridge/rifle clue me up

[RichieG]

A 7x64 is a good choice:
With a 175gr Woodleigh RN SP it is an outstanding bushveld calibre.
With a 139 -154gr premium bullet its an outstanding kalahari/longer distance calibre.
Maybe load a 160gr SBC at a moderate speed say 2650-2700fps and have a fantastic alrounder.
lovely problem to have!

 

[CBH Australia]

A 7x64 is a good choice:
With a 175gr Woodleigh RN SP it is an outstanding bushveld calibre.
With a 139 -154gr premium bullet its an outstanding kalahari/longer distance calibre.
Maybe load a 160gr SBC at a moderate speed say 2650-2700fps and have a fantastic alrounder.
lovely problem to have!

You make it sound like it should be my rifle and not hers.
You make it sound like I need to go back to Africa with a classic cartridge.
One problem I can see straight up is the lack in availability of Woodleigh projectiles. I have some 140gn Woodleigh PPSP but I keep them in a locked cupboard.

 

[RichieG]

Excellent, I will see how I go.
She has fired a .308 ok but ideally I just want to be sure that she is completely comfortable with it and handles it well.
If it’s going to be her rifle I just want to be sure it’s just right. I want her to feel comfortable to squeeze the trigger when a shot presents. We will get range time but I want her to feel confident each time.
Not sure about adding Mercury atm.
It kinda started out that I have a pink B&C full aluminium bedded fibreglass stock that is new in box. My 7mm-08 is the medium barrel CTR or I might have fitted that.
As for weight, then it won’t hurt if the scope is marginally heavier like a Meopta or the like. I can easily find some scopes at 4-5oz heavier than a Leupold .

on reading @rookhawk last post then I will go back to load data. I think AR2206H is often using a lighter charge weight. This may be because of grain size but also using less grains is less cost and it seems to be the most versatile. That said it’s not always the fastest but then that’s back to it being closer to 7-08 performance then working up if required.
I will read up on the ADI load data to see which is the most efficient in the .280 as it’s the only available data and seems to be under the max allowable for 7x64 even at max load.

It will be interesting to get it set up and weigh a few Tikkas to see what difference there is among those I have and to see where this weighs in at.

You make it sound like it should be my rifle and not hers.
You make it sound like I need to go back to Africa with a classic cartridge.
One problem I can see straight up is the lack in availability of Woodleigh projectiles. I have some 140gn Woodleigh PPSP but I keep them in a locked cupboard.

Haha yes there are bigger issues to solve. Truly between x57, x64 and -08 not a lot to choose from if you want moderate loads. All will be perfect, though the x64 has "more legs" if you want to borrow her rifle one day!!

Norma also produce the 156gr and 170gr Oryx which I've found very effective and is very similar to the Woodleigh.

 

[rookhawk]

You make it sound like it should be my rifle and not hers.
You make it sound like I need to go back to Africa with a classic cartridge.
One problem I can see straight up is the lack in availability of Woodleigh projectiles. I have some 140gn Woodleigh PPSP but I keep them in a locked cupboard.

We were shooting Barnes factory loaded 140gr TTSX bullets over here. If memory serves, they were pretty zippy (but no recoil) at around 2900fps. The problem we had with them here, but not in Africa is that they zipped through deer without making a very big hole. Not enough hydrostatic shock to cause an instant bolt of lightening death, nor was the barnes able to open fast enough to create the big wound channel. One perfectly lung shot pass-through doe whitetail ran 200 yards into a hayfield before expiring. In Africa, I've written a few times on the eland my son shot that was a perfect heart shot (but bullet did not pass through) that created a hard recovery even though the animal went only 200 yards or so. (zero blood trail) My son took an Oryx in New Mexico with it as well, the oryx dropped quickly, but it took three shots to put it down

So what would I do different/better with a 7x64? For Africa, I think a 150gr TSX (not tipped) would be a tougher bullet, as would a 156gr Norma Oryx. For America and elsewhere with deer species, a 140-160gr partition would not be too tough either. And if someone just wanted a brush gun, the may be old-fashioned, but a remington CoreLokt is a flimsy bullet that mushrooms easily and would be a great choice for deer/bear species.

TLDR; Barnes bullets are finicky about the velocity at which they work best and rely upon the resistance of flesh to encourage copper expansion. Maybe not the very best choice for a 7x64 if you're killing a variety of different sized animals at a variety of distances.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

She’s also happy with the .243

@CBH Australia
Once she uses that lovely 7mm she will wonder why she ever had the 243. The 7x64 is far better and more effective and versatile than that other horrible little cartridge.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

We were shooting Barnes factory loaded 140gr TTSX bullets over here. If memory serves, they were pretty zippy (but no recoil) at around 2900fps. The problem we had with them here, but not in Africa is that they zipped through deer without making a very big hole. Not enough hydrostatic shock to cause an instant bolt of lightening death, nor was the barnes able to open fast enough to create the big wound channel. One perfectly lung shot pass-through doe whitetail ran 200 yards into a hayfield before expiring. In Africa, I've written a few times on the eland my son shot that was a perfect heart shot (but bullet did not pass through) that created a hard recovery even though the animal went only 200 yards or so. (zero blood trail) My son took an Oryx in New Mexico with it as well, the oryx dropped quickly, but it took three shots to put it down

So what would I do different/better with a 7x64? For Africa, I think a 150gr TSX (not tipped) would be a tougher bullet, as would a 156gr Norma Oryx. For America and elsewhere with deer species, a 140-160gr partition would not be too tough either. And if someone just wanted a brush gun, the may be old-fashioned, but a remington CoreLokt is a flimsy bullet that mushrooms easily and would be a great choice for deer/bear species.

TLDR; Barnes bullets are finicky about the velocity at which they work best and rely upon the resistance of flesh to encourage copper expansion. Maybe not the very best choice for a 7x64 if you're killing a variety of different sized animals at a variety of distances.

@rookhawk
My choice of bullet for Australian game and a lot of north America game would be the good old Hornady SST in either 139 or 154 gn. Expansion is great and in my experience holds together well. For bigger stuff the 160gn accubond or Woodleighs would be fine and dandy.
Taking to Geoff at Woodleigh the other day ( in person) they are now making 338 projectiles then 30 cal then 7mm followed by 6.5s. They are still catching up on back orders but hope to be in full production soon. I managed to get hold of 200 225 gn rnsp for my Whelen when I was out there.
Bob

 

[CBH Australia]

@rookhawk
My choice of bullet for Australian game and a lot of north America game would be the good old Hornady SST in either 139 or 154 gn. Expansion is great and in my experience holds together well. For bigger stuff the 160gn accubond or Woodleighs would be fine and dandy.
Taking to Geoff at Woodleigh the other day ( in person) they are now making 338 projectiles then 30 cal then 7mm followed by 6.5s. They are still catching up on back orders but hope to be in full production soon. I managed to get hold of 200 225 gn rnsp for my Whelen when I was out there.
Bob

I would like to run Woodleigh’s.
I won’t dismiss the 150ish ELD-X that came with it.
7mm are the only ones that matter.
Did you call in to the factory?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I would like to run Woodleigh’s.
I won’t dismiss the 150ish ELD-X that came with it.
7mm are the only ones that matter.
Did you call in to the factory?

@CBH Australia
Yes Chris called into the factory and spoke to Geoff and Shirley personally. Great down to earth folk. If you saw the factory you would be amazed at how they do it all in a tin shed on the farm
Wonderful people.
Should be doing 7mm projectiles in a couple of months.
Give him a call mate
Bob

 

[CBH Australia]

@rookhawk I’m inclined to agree on the zippy bullets. I found some 124gn Hammer bullets shot accurately in my .308
Years also observed some zippy bullets pencilling through Fallow deer.
I have some others to try.
When I first got my 7mm-08 with 200 Winchester factory loads using 139gn soft points I was happy with the performance on game.
BTW, we took possession of the 7x64 today but travelling in the morning so some pics and range report next week when I’m on A/S .
Keen to let her rip.

 

[RayAtkinson]

the 308, 280, 7x57, 270, 708 30-06 and others are all about equal but there is a big difference in todays availability of components powder. primers, brass and bullets. That, would be my main concern and the 308 or 30-06 wins on that count, How can one beat the 7x57 Ive shot Bison and cull buffalo with it and observed an elephant kill with a heart shot..

 

[rookhawk]

the 308, 280, 7x57, 270, 708 30-06 and others are all about equal but there is a big difference in todays availability of components powder. primers, brass and bullets. That, would be my main concern and the 308 or 30-06 wins on that count, How can one beat the 7x57 Ive shot Bison and cull buffalo with it and observed an elephant kill with a heart shot..

If your argument is reliance on factory ammo, I will agree that 308 and 30-06 are found in every one-pump gas station west of the Mississippi.

But if you're going to handload, or at least spend a month searching, you can find all the components or factory loads for 7x57, 7x64, 280 Rem, and 7-08. They all use the same powders, primers, and bullets, so we're just talking about brass availability and its all available.

As to which is better, just by the numbers, a .284" bullet is ballistically superior to a .308" bullet due to its inherently high B.C. that bucks wind better, has less drop, and has deeper penetration.

 

[CBH Australia]

If your argument is reliance on factory ammo, I will agree that 308 and 30-06 are found in every one-pump gas station west of the Mississippi.

But if you're going to handload, or at least spend a month searching, you can find all the components or factory loads for 7x57, 7x64, 280 Rem, and 7-08. They all use the same powders, primers, and bullets, so we're just talking about brass availability and its all available.

As to which is better, just by the numbers, a .284" bullet is ballistically superior to a .308" bullet due to its inherently high B.C. that bucks wind better, has less drop, and has deeper penetration.

I must agree. I believe the 7mm or .284” bore is the sweet spot.
The only ballistic data I have looked at is what others have written up. But I’ve read enough to believe it’s a happy median and the 7mm projectiles offerings cover a widespread in weights and are easily obtained.
My first impressions of my 7mm-08 were great. I used a hire rifle in 7mmRm in South Africa and then had a .280ai built so I’m keen to get this 7x64 on the range and get it ready for use.

 

[Graham Hunter]

I took a 7x64 to the Eastern cape for my nephew and myself. Shot Gemsbok, Kudu, Impala, Blesbok, Warthog, Mtn. Reedbuck, Zebra and Sprinbok. Used 150gr. Hornady CX and they worked great.

 

[BrownMax]

I have used a rifle in 7x64 for several years now, a good old Brno ZG 47, but with a modern McMillan hunting stock. I'm so happy with this rifle that the other rifles I have (mostly in larger calibers) usually stays at home. Great accuracy, modest recoil and reliable performance on animals ranging from roe deer, red deer and moose.

I wanted to comment on the use of copper bullets, reference to the experience by @rookhawk over. I have been part of a joint effort to investigate the performance of copper bullets compared to traditional lead core (bonded or non-bonded), tested in water jugs or wet packs at a range of relevant velocities. The short answer is to use light for caliber bullets when using copper bullets like Barnes TTSX. In my 7x64 rifle, I have used 120 grs Barnes TTSX with great success, so far accounting for 11 animals (mostly red deer). This little 7mm TTSX penetrate at least as long as 156 grs Norma Oryx or 160 grs Woodleigh PP, and just marginally less than 160 grs Swift A-Frame, at velocities relevant for 7x64 (or 280 rem). There is nothing to gain from using a heavier TTSX bullet, the only thing you would achieve is a shorter effective range where the bullet expands in a reliable manner.

 

[CBH Australia]

So we made time for the range today albeit a bit windy. Typical September here.
But still keen to get out between work so here are the results and I still got good groups at 100m using the projectiles and load data supplied by the seller.
The stick on dots I use for aiming are just under an inch so the group size is under 1”,
I did not measure with a vernier yet but I believe the measurement between centre’s will be under 3/4” for the best groups

 

[Schroeder]

The 7x64 is a fantastic cartridge. Both my brother and myself have been using it for the last twenty years or so for deer in Australia. I don’t see any big advantage in going to the 7mm magnum.
These groups are typical what we have developed and used over the years. Both rifles are Blaser R8’s with 22 inch barrels. COL is 87mm. And we only use 160 grain and heavier projectiles. Velocity with the 160 grain Accubond is about 2850fps and we have settled on 2725. fps with the Woodleigh 175 grain PPSN

Years ago I did work up a really accurate light load with 173 grain round nose soft points. That was extremely accurate and consistent with 2209.

 

[CBH Australia]

Thanks @Schroeder , I was hoping to run a lighter load for my wife but I’m mot getting the same accuracy.
I have an accurate load for 140gn Woodleigh in my rifle and will test 140 and 160gn in the 7x64 as I keep getting good feedback on them.
In all honesty a Fallow might be the biggest thing she will hunt but I’m enjoying setting it up and developing the load.

 

[Badboymelvin]

Hey mate,

Have you considered using the Aussie made Atomic 29 projectiles in your wife's rifle?
I just checked their website and they make a 135gn projectile.
I'm not sure what speed you'd get from a bullet that weight... over 3000fps?

I can completely vouch for these projectiles as these are what l use in my 425 Express and what l used in my 308 Norma.
They shoot really accurately

Atomic29projectiles |

atomic29projectiles.com.au

Russ

 

[CBH Australia]

Thanks Russ,

I can try these. I have played with a few Atomic 29 projectiles. I’ve been over to Naracoorte and was introduced to Cameron.

As for the 7x64 I guess I hadn’t got to trying these yet but Im able to access the local range so it’s an option. The load data from the seller is an accurate load but I like to try things.

I have Atomic 29 projectiles loaded for my .300wm I can only get around 1” with that from any load but it’s probably reasonable accuracy for hunting. I’m thinking Sambar.

 

[Badboymelvin]

Thanks Russ,

I can try these. I have played with a few Atomic 29 projectiles. I’ve been over to Naracoorte and was introduced to Cameron.

As for the 7x64 I guess I hadn’t got to trying these yet but Im able to access the local range so it’s an option. The load data from the seller is an accurate load but I like to try things.

I have Atomic 29 projectiles loaded for my .300wm I can only get around 1” with that from any load but it’s probably reasonable accuracy for hunting. I’m thinking Sambar.

Of course you know about these projectiles!
l remember now!
On our last hunting trip I remember you telling me you'd just been to Cameron's and checked out his set-up...

I've always liked the 7x64 - l've always thought it was a 'cool' cartridge. Just like the 280AI is a cool cartridge.
And they're both useful too.
I think it is a great choice for your wife. I think the .243 is a good choice too (I love mine) but the 7x64 is a definite step-up.
I think the rifle looks cool too

Russ