.460 Weatherby whats your opinion

[Royal27]

one of the main reasons i hate the 460 wby is that people pretty much have to put muzzle breaks on them to make them shootable. i would rather have my foot run over by a truck then spend 10 minutes next to a person shooting a 460 with a muzzle break.

im still pushing for my local range to disallow muzzle breaks or at least make a special section that they have to shoot in. few things ruins a shooting trip faster then some jerk sitting next to you with a muzzle break on his rifle!

-matt

I wish I could figure out where you stand on the brake issue, but I'm still just not sure....

 

[colorado]

i was wondering what people think of the cartridge also recommendations on rifles to purchase in the caliber .460 Weatherby
thanks

Ouch!

 

[Norwegianwoods]

A muzzle break doesn't belong on a gun, simple as that.
That abomination is the worst gun related crap ever created.

I have shot a bit with a 460 Weatherby without a break and it is the only gun I have ever shot that I really find unpleasant.
I really don't see the point of the cartridge either.
I would be happy if someone could enlighten me on the advantages of a 460 Weatherby compared with other big bores and when do you really need them if there are any?

 

[peras]

As Pierre van der Walt states in his book "African dangerous game cartridges" the muzzlebrake and not the recoil is the 460's greatest enemy. It has 12 % less recoil than the popular .500 Jeffrey. With the case capacity this is a cartridge that you can easily download and still have excellent performance, without any pressure problems. You will never need a compressed load.

 

[Kanzutu]

Not a fan of the Weatherby rifle in 460 however a 460 built on a solid action, well configured stock of the appropriate weight coupled with the right ammo its devastating! A true all round backup rifle in country where one may encounter anything/circumstance. If someone is willing to learn to shoot it well it puts the smack down! It is not for everyone. MagnaPort is okay and helps but NO MUZZEL BRAKE PERIOD!! If you can't handle it without in a hunting scenario then leave it at home!

 

[Grumulkin]

There are a few problems with the no muzzle brake thing:

1. First of all a MagnaPort IS a type of muzzle brake.

2. All 460 Weatherby Magnums of general commercial manufacture that I've seen come with muzzle brakes. The only way to get one without is by buying a custom rifle at probably twice the cost.

3. Everyone ought to just lose the no muzzle brake prejudice. They're around to stay FOREVER. Get used to it. Wear good hearing protection. There are PLENTY of shooters that have muzzle brakes on the likes of the 223 Remington. Some are offended by the stiff recoil of a 22-250 Remington (LOL).

 

[matt85]

2. All 460 Weatherby Magnums of general commercial manufacture that I've seen come with muzzle brakes. The only way to get one without is by buying a custom rifle at probably twice the cost.

you can always take it off.

3. Everyone ought to just lose the no muzzle brake prejudice. They're around to stay FOREVER. Get used to it. Wear good hearing protection. There are PLENTY of shooters that have muzzle brakes on the likes of the 223 Remington. Some are offended by the stiff recoil of a 22-250 Remington (LOL).

its a free country, people are allowed to put what ever they want on there guns. but if you have a muzzle break on your rifle then you need to understand that its incredibly rude and painful to shoot it near other people. telling other people to "Wear good hearing protection" is not an acceptable response since its your fault for being too loud, not theirs. other people should not have to change just because you want to do something, that's being selfish.

-matt

 

[Grumulkin]

My 460 Weeatherby has the Pendelton brake; you can't take it off.

Muzzle brakes don't make more noise. They may change the pitch of the noise and they redirect it in different directions but they don't make more noise.

Some people might argue that since they didn't shoot and don't like noise, you shouldn't shoot either. They could also argue that they didn't kill stuff and that you were selfish by doing so. It's a little preposterous to dictate to fellow shooters that they shouldn't use muzzle brakes. You should be wearing hearing protection anyway; all it takes is foam ear plugs under ear muffs and you're good to go even if someone is shooting a braked gun.

 

[Royal27]

you can always take it off.



its a free country, people are allowed to put what ever they want on there guns. but if you have a muzzle break on your rifle then you need to understand that its incredibly rude and painful to shoot it near other people. telling other people to "Wear good hearing protection" is not an acceptable response since its your fault for being too loud, not theirs. other people should not have to change just because you want to do something, that's being selfish.

-matt

I'm with Grumulkin here Matt.

By your logic the argument could easily be made that all guns should have a silencer on them to reduce noise. It is your fault for pulling the trigger, not theirs afterall (I don't agree with this - hearing protection when around a known gun going off IS their responsibility). I know you don't like brakes, but to say using one is rude and selfish isn't fair. Now if you are sneaking around and shoot when someone doesn't have ear protection on and shoot when they don't realize you're going to and they are ten feet away, that is rude. And rude regardless of brake or no.

 

[tarbe]

What was the question?

Oh yeah, "i was wondering what people think of the cartridge also recommendations on rifles to purchase in the caliber .460 Weatherby".

On the cartridge, it is a beast and probably more than 99.99% of people need and 99.9% of people can handle well, brake or not.

On rifles, that's pretty personal...but I cannot abide the canoe paddle myself!

I realize the above is probably not very helpful, but just trying to get my post count up.

 

[enysse]

I agree a lot of the rifles came braked from the factory. To fix that alters the way the gun was designed. It was a lot of gun. To maintain peace and harmony, to each his own for a gun.

 

[matt85]

i never said any thing about not wearing hearing protection.

the issue is standard hearing protection like ear muffs or ear plugs arent enough to deal with muzzle breaks on magnum rifles. even when wearing both ear plugs and muffs the blast off a 378 wby with a break is unbearable (personal experience). there is also the back blast which knocks everything off the benchs to your left and right. i hope your neighbors dont have any targets, cleaning supplies, or brass on their benches or those will end up on the ground in a hurry.

a rifle without a compensator regardless of caliber isnt terrible to be next to as long as your wearing hearing protection.

again, im fine if someone wants to put a brake on their gun. just dont shoot near me (or any one else without asking). if someone is at the range using compensator i will try my best to sit as far away as possible.

-matt

 

[tarbe]

there is also the back blast which knocks everything off the benchs to your left and right. i hope your neighbors dont have any targets, cleaning supplies, or brass on their benches or those will end up on the ground in a hurry.

-matt

This reminds me of the first (and last) time I shot on a bench at a public range next to a braked rifle. It was 1986.

The rifle was a "measly" 8x57....hardly a hellbender.

I had some ammo sitting on my bench in one of those old styrofoam holders that Remington brass would come in (20 rounder). Every time that guy fired his rifle, not only did I get B-slapped in the face, chunks of the foam would get torn off that ammo container!

I moved away from that fellow and made a mental note!


Tim

 

[matt85]

i forgot to mention all the bits of powder residue that gets sprayed in the faces of the people to your left and right.

this will be my last post on this thread since im taken this way off topic, sorry about that.

-matt

 

[Kanzutu]

Get a 460 built by a very good rifle builder and not some hack. Wiebe, American Hunting Rifles are prime examples or get Westley Richards. You won't need a break. MagnaPort is a form of brake however its not as nasty as the rest and does not have a debilitating effect like a conventional brake.

Brakes are fine most of the time in controlled circumstances but on a dangerous game cartridge/rifle meant primarily for close range work a definite no no. I have had it happen with a Sako 416 Rem on an elephant hunt. Not pleasant deaf to this day in my left ear (ringing as I sit hear) and put me out for a vital second or two which, almost cost this guy his 50 grand elephant had I not been able to get a decent backup shot. We managed to recover the elephant the next about mile later after some extremely difficult tracking.
A mentor and PH from a very well established Safari company in Tanzania had a hunter get all riled up on a follow on a wounded buffalo. Suffice to say he shot from behind the PH which knocked him down. He later said that if that buffalo had charged someone would've have been badly hurt or worse. If I remember correctly burst ear drum and blood. The old ndorobo tracker thought the hunter had shot the PH! That hunter was a regular and good client but he never hunted with the company again was sent home.
Had a hunter almost loose a buffalo because he'd left his hearing protection in the vehicle, fired two shots at his buffalo and couldn't bear to take another until we swapped out the 378 for the 470 and got the plugs.. Simple thing can ruin a hunt.
There are countless examples.
Its happened to me and my colleagues enough times to know better but in the heat of the moment, its better to eliminate the variables.
When guiding I hunt with ear muffs however when I go into a thick bush after wounded dangerous animal I can't afford not to hear whats going on (with whats left of my hearing) and there is no time to deploy the muffs.
Whats more important the hearing of one of the trackers/crew, mine or a hunters trophy? Guess what? Your trophy comes second!
There are certain companies that simply do not allow muzzle brakes period!

 

[Kanzutu]

Well said Matt85

 

[ActionBob]

I don't know that this is off topic? The question was what do you think of it. And if the standard is for a gun in this caliber to come with a brake, you are on topic.

I would have to agree that technically a gun with a brake would not make more total noise, but redirects it... But that is kind of like asking if a tree falling in the back woods makes a noise if no one heats it

I think there needs to be reasonable compromise regarding brakes. I recently emailed a few outfitter/phs asking about my wife hunting with a brake on her 375 Ruger. The most sensible and honest guy said, leave it on for practice, take it off for hunting because she will not notice the recoil if shooting a lion, for example. Recoil will not be the focus and in the case of DG the PH will likely be at her side and at the ready. And really can he use conventional hearing protection when he needs to be fullyvaware ofwhatvis going on?.. like an animal charging in from a blind side?

On the other hand she can shoot 15 or 20 rounds at the range with the brake, we rarely have anyone else there and then she goes to the far end. And without the brake she will shoot 3 and is done for the day.

I've got 3 AR and one AK with flash hiders and hate them. Ordered the one AR 10 when the picture and discription had no brake, the damned thing came with one and with a piss poor excuse from the salesman... it is a DPMS Light Hunter... why you would want that miserable thing on a hunting rifle in 308, I have no idea... took it to an indoor range and the range master was all enthralled that I brought in a "cool" gun. Untill it blasted apart the targets on both sides of me.

Of course I bought it during the post election craze (which I admittedly fully participated in) so took it even though not how I wanted it.

 

[Norwegianwoods]

I'm with Grumulkin here Matt.

By your logic the argument could easily be made that all guns should have a silencer on them to reduce noise. It is your fault for pulling the trigger, not theirs afterall (I don't agree with this - hearing protection when around a known gun going off IS their responsibility). I know you don't like brakes, but to say using one is rude and selfish isn't fair.

I must say I agree with Matt.
There is a huge difference in noise between gun with and without a muzzle break.
You need to be very unlucky to lose your hearing from being a bystander when some shoots from a gun without a muzzle break is fired.
You can very much lose it from just one shot from a gun with a muzzle break.

Some years ago I was the one responsible for the shooting at a public shooting range.
We found that shooting with muzzle breaks was so disturbing for other shooters, that we had to make the decision that people wanting to shoot with muzzle breaks had to shoot in their own groups.
And of course the muzzle break shooters complained.

The funny thing was that no one wanted to shoot beside another shooter with a muzzle break.
Not even the ones that had a muzzle break themselves.
So most of the time we had to leave one open shooting space between each muzzle break shooter.

When it comes to protecting the hearing.
That is totally possible when at the shooting range.
It is a totally different story when hunting.
And I really think it is totally selfish to go on a hunt with a guide/PH/tracker and expect them to use a hearing protection or they can blame themselves if their hearing gets lost.

A muzzle break can be accepted at a shooting range if some rules are made about them.
And it can be useful in war when some hard hitting cartridges are used.
But it has nothing to do on a hunting gun you plan to use with others close to you.

I would guess that most people use a 460 Weatherby on a DG where there will be other people close by, so if they see such a need for using that cartridge when hunting, they should do so without a muzzle break.

To buy a 460 Weatherby and download it is totally silly.
What is the point of buying one then?
It is like I should buy a 300 Weatherby and download it to .308 win standards because I think the recoil of the 300 Weatherby is to much.

And I have still not seen a good argument for why a hunter needs that cartridge other than they might think it is fun or macho to use one.
But I don't think it is very macho to use a muzzle break, so that leaves the fun argument alone

I can ever so slightly understand why a PH want to use one, even if I think there are plenty of other cartridges that can do the job as well, but I really hope they will use one without a muzzle break if they really think they need one to do their job.

 

[spike.t]

Get a 460 built by a very good rifle builder and not some hack. Wiebe, American Hunting Rifles are prime examples or get Westley Richards. You won't need a break. MagnaPort is a form of brake however its not as nasty as the rest and does not have a debilitating effect like a conventional brake.

Brakes are fine most of the time in controlled circumstances but on a dangerous game cartridge/rifle meant primarily for close range work a definite no no. I have had it happen with a Sako 416 Rem on an elephant hunt. Not pleasant deaf to this day in my left ear (ringing as I sit hear) and put me out for a vital second or two which, almost cost this guy his 50 grand elephant had I not been able to get a decent backup shot. We managed to recover the elephant the next about mile later after some extremely difficult tracking.
A mentor and PH from a very well established Safari company in Tanzania had a hunter get all riled up on a follow on a wounded buffalo. Suffice to say he shot from behind the PH which knocked him down. He later said that if that buffalo had charged someone would've have been badly hurt or worse. If I remember correctly burst ear drum and blood. The old ndorobo tracker thought the hunter had shot the PH! That hunter was a regular and good client but he never hunted with the company again was sent home.
Had a hunter almost loose a buffalo because he'd left his hearing protection in the vehicle, fired two shots at his buffalo and couldn't bear to take another until we swapped out the 378 for the 470 and got the plugs.. Simple thing can ruin a hunt.
There are countless examples.
Its happened to me and my colleagues enough times to know better but in the heat of the moment, its better to eliminate the variables.
When guiding I hunt with ear muffs however when I go into a thick bush after wounded dangerous animal I can't afford not to hear whats going on (with whats left of my hearing) and there is no time to deploy the muffs.
Whats more important the hearing of one of the trackers/crew, mine or a hunters trophy? Guess what? Your trophy comes second!
There are certain companies that simply do not allow muzzle brakes period!

that about sums it up leon . i find it interesting that out of all the calibres harrison asked about the .460 has received the most replies, not sure why as the 2 weatherby .460 rifles i have had a chance to look at were rubbish, mind you it was quite a few years ago so maybe they have improved........

 

[matt85]

not sure why as the 2 weatherby .460 rifles i have had a chance to look at were rubbish, mind you it was quite a few years ago so maybe they have improved........

+1 on the quality

ive never seen a 460 wby made by Weatherby but I did own a Weatherby 30-06 at one point and it was the least accurate rifle ive ever owned! regardless of ammo used I could never get it to group smaller then 2" at 100 yards with average group sizes being 3-4 inches. this was just one sample and I wont claim all the guns they make are poor quality but mine was garbage.

-matt