450/400 3" double as a stopping rifle?

[Brian]

When I shot my cow last month with my .505 Gibbs, offhand from 20 ish yards.
She immediately tipped over. I hit her in the left leg, heart and exited the right leg.
I had racked the second round and fired into her side before she hit the ground.

I did not remember shooting either round and can not recall any recoil at all.

Use enough gun you won’t remember the recoil
View attachment 620246

Altitude Sickness,

Well said, I tell people that when I am shooting my 577NE at a close range buffalo it recoils like a 375!

 

[Brian]

My Benelli SBE3 (7 lbs) with 3.5" magnum loads of 2 1/4 oz of 7 shot TSS at 1200 fps are WAAAAAY worse than my 375H&H (7.75 lbs) with 300 grain bullets at 2500 fps.

BTW - I had a 416RM but it was right at my recoil tolerance level. I had done enough shooting with a 375 that it wasn't a big step up in recoil, but it was definitely a step up. Combine that with how many times I'm likely to hunt DG and the 416RM was sold shortly after.

Not sure how the 416RM compares to the 450/400NE, but if the ballistic numbers are correct and the laws of physics still apply...the RM will hit harder (on both ends). I say this because you are more likely to know someone with a 416RM than 450/400NE and you can try it out. If you are good with the RM, you should be fine with the NE.

Thanks, BeeMaa, Good idea
. Brian

 

[Brian]

My Benelli SBE3 (7 lbs) with 3.5" magnum loads of 2 1/4 oz of 7 shot TSS at 1200 fps are WAAAAAY worse than my 375H&H (7.75 lbs) with 300 grain bullets at 2500 fps.

BTW - I had a 416RM but it was right at my recoil tolerance level. I had done enough shooting with a 375 that it wasn't a big step up in recoil, but it was definitely a step up. Combine that with how many times I'm likely to hunt DG and the 416RM was sold shortly after.

Not sure how the 416RM compares to the 450/400NE, but if the ballistic numbers are correct and the laws of physics still apply...the RM will hit harder (on both ends). I say this because you are more likely to know someone with a 416RM than 450/400NE and you can try it out. If you are good with the RM, you should be fine with the NE.

BeeMaa, thanks good suggestion, Brian

 

[Altitude sickness]

I would like to try one of these 450
DR some day

 

[IvW]

Without derailing too much I believe the 450-400 3”, the 450 No.2 and the 475 No.2 are the only nitro express cartridges designed around smokeless powder. All by Jeffrey.

You could add 375 H&H Flanged Mag and the new 416 Rigby No.2...

 

[IvW]

"Even in the Contest between Man vs. Steer .. The Issue is never Certain"

Brain Shot 10ft away. 500?

His left ear will get warmed up pretty fast if he points those barrels at my head while doing his speach for the camera I can assure you.....

 

[Wyatt Smith]

You could add 375 H&H Flanged Mag and the new 416 Rigby No.2...

I knew I was missing at least one.

 

[BeeMaa]

I knew I was missing at least one.

500/416NE 3 1/4", introduced in 1996 by Krieghoff. Made to duplicate the 416RIGBY ballistics in a flanged cartridge suitable for taking DG with a double rifle.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

500/416NE 3 1/4", introduced in 1996 by Krieghoff. Made to duplicate the 416RIGBY ballistics in a flanged cartridge suitable for taking DG with a double rifle.

It still uses the old 500 case doesn’t it, just necked down. It’s about the same as the 470 in that regard. I specifically meant cases with beefed up rims and thicker case walls.

 

[BeeMaa]

It still uses the old 500 case doesn’t it, just necked down. It’s about the same as the 470 in that regard. I specifically meant cases with beefed up rims and thicker case walls.

Fair enough.

How about the 700NE? Created in 1988 by Holland & Holland because they promised the last 600NE customer that they wouldn't make any more.

And would qualify as a true stopping rifle if a PH could afford to shoot it or even carry the bloody thing. At 18 lbs it's quite the artillery piece producing nearly 9,000 lb-ft of energy with a 1000 grain bullet at 2000 fps.

 

[Inkgardener]

Fair enough.

How about the 700NE? Created in 1988 by Holland & Holland because they promised the last 600NE customer that they wouldn't make any more.

And would qualify as a true stopping rifle if a PH could afford to shoot it or even carry the bloody thing. At 18 lbs it's quite the artillery piece producing nearly 9,000 lb-ft of energy with a 1000 grain bullet at 2000 fps.

They didn’t make many of the .700’s I don’t think, and all were engraved and such. Not sure many of those actually would make it to the hunting grounds.

Taking a $10-40,000 rifle to the field vs a $200,000 rifle takes a different kind of chap.

 

[HWL]

Ammo for the 2 3/8" is almost nonexistant and the 3 1/4" is not far behind.

Not really true for the 2 3/8"!
This one lives a happy and prosperous life ander a false name.
In Switzerland it is well known als 10,3x60R.
Blaser make/made rifles, K77, R93.
RWS and some other companies make/made ammunition/cases.

HWL

 

[Green Chile]

My .450/400 3 1/4 (10.3lbs) has less felt recoil than an average .375H&H bolt rifle..

So those who struggle with the recoil of a large bore rifle will probably shoot a .450/400 more accurate than a large bore..

To quote Boddington, “With similar gun weight, recoil foot-pounds are about the same as a .375. But, since the .450/400 is much slower, recoil velocity is less, which has much to do with felt recoil.”

 

[Daniel Cary]

Well, I'm sure, I don't know the answer .. but an 89/88 in 450/400 must be a joy.

who doesn't want a Heym?

 

[rookhawk]

Hello All, does anyone here have experience of a 450/400 3" double as a stopping rifle on Buffalo? Up to the job, or not?

When I think of "stopping rifles" I think of this feature:

The shot isn't correct, but the hydrostatic shock and sheer effect causes instant central nervous system collapse rendering the animal at least temporarily unconscious.

Calibers that could do this to a buffalo would be 470, 500, 585, 577/600 Rewa, 577NE, 458 Lott, and 460 Weatherby.

Now for a client rifle, none of this is necessary and in fact the 450-400 is the gold standard for purpose-built buffalo slaying.

A professional's gun is supposed to be underweight so it is pleasant to carry, miserable to shoot because its designed for death at 3 paces. I'd say enjoy a client rifle of your choosing and forgo the pain of a professional tool.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

450 NE double stopping a buffalo without a brain or spine shot. 8 minutes 45.
Good shooting by the young lad I must say.

 

[Daniel Cary]

450 NE double stopping a buffalo without a brain or spine shot. 8 minutes 45.
Good shooting by the young lad I must say.

Look at those Heym's! .. Ich liebe es

Still want an 88!

 

[TXTad]

@Kevin Peacocke .. I asked these guy's & they indeed were using the 450/400?

At the risk of getting off subject, where does one aim the followup shots in this case? I think the first shot was between the eyes, and I think the second shot (from the guy in the middle anyway) looks like it was in the spine behind the skull.

 

[Brian]

A 375 Ruger with standard loads would be much better than a 458 WM loaded down to 45-70 performance.

matt85, So you think that a 300 grain 375 bullet at 2,500 fps mv would be better than a 300 grain 458 bullet at the same speed?

 

[BeeMaa]

matt85, So you think that a 300 grain 375 bullet at 2,500 fps mv would be better than a 300 grain 458 bullet at the same speed?

Yes. Because you will lose sectional density, meaning the ability of a bullet to drive in a straight line through tissue and bone.