416 Taylor Info and Advice

[Rez Exelon]

I had also considered a 416 Ruger but the brass/ammo availability seems to be worse than 416 Taylor and I'm unsure that it provides much more in performance over the 416 Taylor. That along with magazine capacity constraints of the 416 Ruger leads me back to the 416 Taylor. I'm don't think the 416 Taylor really gives up much to the 416 Ruger in performance on dangerous game.

Well, so far, I'm about a month in and thanks to some nice AH members I got a pile of 458 Win brass that I can convert to 416 Taylor (Taylor is the same exact case with the same dimensions except that it's necked in to 416 instead of being 458) and a Sizing die from a Guns International and a few cases from a Gun Broker listing, and I still can't seem to get a shot off because I can't find a seating die.

Now, if you wanted it, you could go with a 404 Jeffery --- there's a Krieger barrel blank listed on GB right now for 450 or so. It's really tempting to me based on the issues I've had on my 416/404Jeff wildcat project, but I'm stubborn and want to get that one running as-is.

Either way you go, I'd just have a plan on acquisitioning dies first and/or factor that in. I don't regret picking this up, but it's likely to hang loose for a while longer until I come across a reasonably priced set of dies.

Surprisingly bullets are the easy part --- there are plentiful options in .416 (or .423 for that matter). Just finding brass/dies has been tricky. Load data can be difficult but thankfully again, lots of AH members have been great to share!

 

[mdwest]

Load data can be difficult but thankfully again, lots of AH members have been great to share!

There at one time was a little bit of quality load data available on another international hunting forum site (not to be named).. that, combined with Ken Waters Pet Loads got me exactly where I needed to be with my 416 Taylor..

All of the Pet Loads data is available on Page 2 of this thread..

 

[cajunchefray]

There at one time was a little bit of quality load data available on another international hunting forum site (not to be named).. that, combined with Ken Waters Pet Loads got me exactly where I needed to be with my 416 Taylor..

All of the Pet Loads data is available on Page 2 of this thread..

Very good suggestion. I used AA2230 data from another site and got good results, no powder compression.

 

[cajunchefray]

Well, so far, I'm about a month in and thanks to some nice AH members I got a pile of 458 Win brass that I can convert to 416 Taylor (Taylor is the same exact case with the same dimensions except that it's necked in to 416 instead of being 458) and a Sizing die from a Guns International and a few cases from a Gun Broker listing, and I still can't seem to get a shot off because I can't find a seating die.

Now, if you wanted it, you could go with a 404 Jeffery --- there's a Krieger barrel blank listed on GB right now for 450 or so. It's really tempting to me based on the issues I've had on my 416/404Jeff wildcat project, but I'm stubborn and want to get that one running as-is.

Either way you go, I'd just have a plan on acquisitioning dies first and/or factor that in. I don't regret picking this up, but it's likely to hang loose for a while longer until I come across a reasonably priced set of dies.

Surprisingly bullets are the easy part --- there are plentiful options in .416 (or .423 for that matter). Just finding brass/dies has been tricky. Load data can be difficult but thankfully again, lots of AH members have been great to share!

This thread has me thinking I “need “ to have built a.416 Taylor on a Win 70 or Ruger 77 MK II , or commercial M98 action.

22 inch barrel, all African metal work. Actually I have a Winchester stock, Williams Oberndorf style bottom metal. Just acquire an action, barrel , and sights. And dies.
It’s an affliction.
At least it keeps me out of the bars.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I’ll post mine again. because I love it model 70 .416 Taylor. 21” barrel

 

[450 Rigby]

I’ll post mine again. because I love it model 70 .416 Taylor. 21” barrel View attachment 597213View attachment 597214View attachment 597216View attachment 597217View attachment 597219View attachment 597218View attachment 597215View attachment 597220View attachment 597221View attachment 597222

Beautiful 416 Taylor. What brand, contour barrel, rate of twist did you go with? What is your preferred load & velocity?

 

[CoElkHunter]

I’ll post mine again. because I love it model 70 .416 Taylor. 21” barrel View attachment 597213View attachment 597214View attachment 597216View attachment 597217View attachment 597219View attachment 597218View attachment 597215View attachment 597220View attachment 597221View attachment 597222

Beautiful rifle!

 

[Altitude sickness]

Sorry , I bought it used and do not know those details. The barrel is stamped M. Lambert

It likes a wide variety of bullets but I’ve settled on CEB solids and Safari Raptors

 

[mdwest]

What sort of velocity are you getting out of that 21” barrel?

Mind sports a 24… but I’ve been thinking hard about cutting it back to 22…

 

[Altitude sickness]

MD, I can look it up when I get home. But from memory 2350 ish I think I’ve gotten above 2400. Ive got it written down at home.

 

[450 Rigby]

Sorry , I bought it used and do not know those details. The barrel is stamped M. Lambert

It likes a wide variety of bullets but I’ve settled on CEB solids and Safari Raptors

What does your barrel mic at the muzzle? Any load data you've got would be greatly appreciated. I've read those Safari Raptors work very well however I've never loaded them.

 

[C.W. Richter]

What sort of velocity are you getting out of that 21” barrel?

Mind sports a 24… but I’ve been thinking hard about cutting it back to 22…

I have one with a 22" bbl. With proper handloading, it's quite easy to get 2,450 fps (400 gr Swift/Barnes Banded Solids) and in testing 'developed a load that was closer to 2,550 fps. I think 2,350 is definitely more of a pleasure to shoot in most guns, but stuck with the 2,450 (all superbly accurate) and decided the >2,500 fps was unnecessary all the way 'round (and your shoulder will thank you!!!) Woodleighs used to be great in any form of 458 cases, not just because of terminal performance, but because they're the shortest bullets out there and allow a tad more powder space. I performed a LOT of testing (including many other recipes,) but this is what worked best. Again, the dual base powder load is overkill and Kevin Robertson's wisdom reminded me of same. Off the top of my head, the Swift (shorter) printed 1" higher than the Solid, so that worked out well for longer, non-DG shots on trophy PG. The gun was dialed in with the Solid zeroed at 100 and the Soft was precisely 1" high from it. With such a big bore diameter and expected modest velocities, you're not going to see much V deviation for 1-in less bbl. Smaller bores and >3,000 pfs Vs can easily see -100 fps/in or more (the reason most hot 257s and down have/need 26" bbls). As I recall the 2750 fps 06 is like -30 fps/in. You might be looking at 10 fps. There's a great old writeup regarding Robert Chatfield-Taylor's creation (it's a republished old magazine article in a Wildcatter's handbook,) but it's available online....Better powders/components exist today! Enjoy. Mine (SS M70/Shaw BBL/HS Precision w/ Hg Reducers/etc.) was inspired by my Son living in AK, so it's prepared for "dual-duty" of hunting big things.

400 Swift

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400 Barnes

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Hodgdon Varget​

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[mdwest]

Thats the sort of information I was looking for.. thank you!

Im currently loading to 2400 (ish) with 400gr Barnes TSX.. theres still a little room in the case, and Im not seeing any pressure signs on either the rifle or the brass.. so I figured it I lost 50-100 fps by dropping 2 inches of barrel, it would probably be pretty easy to make back up.. If I can keep it between 2300 and 2400, and drop a little bit of barrel (its a little nose heavy right now, and a little longer than I like for pushing through thick stuff), I think it would be a nearly perfect buffalo rifle..

 

[450 Rigby]

Thats the sort of information I was looking for.. thank you!

Im currently loading to 2400 (ish) with 400gr Barnes TSX.. theres still a little room in the case, and Im not seeing any pressure signs on either the rifle or the brass.. so I figured it I lost 50-100 fps by dropping 2 inches of barrel, it would probably be pretty easy to make back up.. If I can keep it between 2300 and 2400, and drop a little bit of barrel (its a little nose heavy right now, and a little longer than I like for pushing through thick stuff), I think it would be a nearly perfect buffalo rifle..

2350 fps should be easily obtained with a 21" or 22" & 400gr TSX / Swift A-Frame/ Northfork SS. Probably get 2250 fps or so with tha 430gr Northfork SS or CPS....which is the velocity a lot of guys run the 404 Jeff at with 430gr Northforks & devastating results on Buffalo.

I prefer the shorter barrel for portability also. I'm in the process of getting details sorted on my build....waiting to hear back from MNR Customs about Sunny Hill drop box mag to hold 4 down on my Win 70 with Accurate Innovations stock. Still trying to find a 14 twist #4 or #5 barrel

 

[Altitude sickness]

450 the barrel end is 19 mm

I do not reload. A freind loads them for me. So they are his loads not mine. So I’m not comfortable sharing load info. Since I’m not an expert.

 

[Rez Exelon]

450 the barrel end is 19 mm

I do not reload. A freind loads them for me. So they are his loads not mine. So I’m not comfortable sharing load info. Since I’m not an expert.

But everyone on the internet is an expert!! (Just kidding, good on your for knowing good limits!)

 

[C.W. Richter]

*if someone happens to find my NECG front sight hood somewhere in the E. Caprivi, i'd be most appreciative!!! (PM me for COD shipping info.) 'Only took 1 shot at the ele, so it's probably in the sands of the sighting-check range located at Termite Mound, White Sand Bluff, Oasis, Nakabolelwa, Salambala Conservancy, Zambezi Region, Namibia. Here's a photo for reference. lol It popped off about every half-doz shots. I should've bent it closed more (@ home) to tighten up, but as-is they don't like heavy recoil. Very pretty though!

 

[Rez Exelon]

Time for an update I suppose.

GAME TIME MY DUDES!!! I AM GOING TO HAVE DIES SOON!!!!!!!!

I got somewhat lucky in that there was a GunBroker auction tonight that included a set of Lee 416 Taylor. Unlike the last experience with Amazon/Midway that claimed I was getting a set of 416 Taylor Lee dies, this auction actually showed a picture with the dies and that they are marked. As a bonus, there was 17 pieces of Qual-Cart 416 Taylor brass included. Total price was 160ish shipped.

Oh, and the auction came with 7 freaking other sets of dies!!! 3x 458 Win mag, 300H&H, 240WBY, 338Win and a 375H&H Trim die.

Now, I look at everything as a math game, and see value as Total Cost - (Cost of things I need) = (Excess cost of other stuff). Considering the cost of the Lee dies and brass (if you can find them) runs around $100, that means I effectively paid $60 for the other 7 sets. Not bad at all!

But more importantly, it means I might actually soon get a set of dies that let me load some rounds. That'll be banner.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Time for an update I suppose.

GAME TIME MY DUDES!!! I AM GOING TO HAVE DIES SOON!!!!!!!!

I got somewhat lucky in that there was a GunBroker auction tonight that included a set of Lee 416 Taylor. Unlike the last experience with Amazon/Midway that claimed I was getting a set of 416 Taylor Lee dies, this auction actually showed a picture with the dies and that they are marked. As a bonus, there was 17 pieces of Qual-Cart 416 Taylor brass included. Total price was 160ish shipped.

Oh, and the auction came with 7 freaking other sets of dies!!! 3x 458 Win mag, 300H&H, 240WBY, 338Win and a 375H&H Trim die.

Now, I look at everything as a math game, and see value as Total Cost - (Cost of things I need) = (Excess cost of other stuff). Considering the cost of the Lee dies and brass (if you can find them) runs around $100, that means I effectively paid $60 for the other 7 sets. Not bad at all!

But more importantly, it means I might actually soon get a set of dies that let me load some rounds. That'll be banner.

View attachment 599453

get locking (set screw) nuts for those Lee's. that's their weak link. You can use RCBS. I don't like those at all (as they move around and require re-setting each use (or face the consequences of poor QA/QC.) Lee are the 2nd worst dies ever used (for that primary reason,) but Hdy the absolute worst (cheap metal/breakage of innards.) RCBS & Redding-NO issues, EVER. Forming 416 C-T out of 458s is very simple with those dies. You should only correct the silly nut issue. A set screw a rubber o-ring is not, Lee! 'Cool novelty 60 yrs ago.

 

[Rez Exelon]

get locking (set screw) nuts for those Lee's. that's their weak link. You can use RCBS. I don't like those at all (as they move around and require re-setting each use (or face the consequences of poor QA/QC.) Lee are the 2nd worst dies ever used (for that primary reason,) but Hdy the absolute worst (cheap metal/breakage of innards.) RCBS & Redding-NO issues, EVER. Forming 416 C-T out of 458s is very simple with those dies. You should only correct the silly nut issue. A set screw a rubber o-ring is not, Lee! 'Cool novelty 60 yrs ago.

Yup --- I order real locking rings for all my dies for that reason. Back when I had some Lee presses with the quick change dies, I always got royally pissed that their quick change adapter bushings always had a screw type of "whatever was cheapest at the time" with some being flat, some phillips, and some hex. I am about to have to place an order for new Lock N Load bushings for these dies anyways. for rounds like this I mainly run a Dillon 550 with a conversion kit to a single stage press. That kit uses a tool head with a LnL quick change setup. Truth be told I'm not a huge fan of those due to the bushing having the narrow completely round design. I feel like if they were 1mm taller, and had some flats in case I ever had to put a wrench on them it'd be really helpful.