416 Taylor Info and Advice

[D.M.V]

Hears my literature on loading. If anyone thinks there's something in here your looking for just ask

 

[luger6]

I have a box of those North Fork cups on the right. I'm not shooting them though for practice for fear of not being able to replace them.

They relocated to Kristianstad Sweden in 2020 just 140km from where i live.

 

[Rez Exelon]

So possibly dumb question, but thinking about it --- for dies all I would really NEED would be a sizing die...because thinking about it I've got a set of Redding 416 Ruger dies that have no purpose and the seating die should work just fine right?? (I just happened to pick them up on ebay a few years back for 30 bucks, so I wasn't going to say no).

 

[CoElkHunter]

So possibly dumb question, but thinking about it --- for dies all I would really NEED would be a sizing die...because thinking about it I've got a set of Redding 416 Ruger dies that have no purpose and the seating die should work just fine right?? (I just happened to pick them up on ebay a few years back for 30 bucks, so I wasn't going to say no).

I think that would work.

 

[Rez Exelon]

If that's the case, I might proceed like that. Now the next challenge is that the projos I have are 410 woodleighs... Which means I don't really have data for this and the 416 rem mag project I'm going on. I suppose I can use 400gr data and load down a bit at least. Curious if anyone has any woodleigh data for these in either caliber??

 

[Altitude sickness]

I put a different scope a 1-4, on my .416 Taylor today. Then dialed it in.

Then shot CEB Safari Raptors at 100 yds

then the CEB solids

five CEB solids

 

[Chris M.]

If that's the case, I might proceed like that. Now the next challenge is that the projos I have are 410 woodleighs... Which means I don't really have data for this and the 416 rem mag project I'm going on. I suppose I can use 400gr data and load down a bit at least. Curious if anyone has any woodleigh data for these in either caliber??

I do have experience loading 410 Woodleighs and used it on a Cape Buffalo in 2022 with good success.

First off, the "Pet Loads" by Ken Waters is good information but it is in essence, Ver. 1.0 of information and has been updated by additional information (i.e., the 2.0) found in the book, "African Dangerous Game Cartridges'" by P. Walt. I've attached the page excerpts from the 416 Taylor chapter for your benefit but for others' with 416 Taylors as FYI.

There is a section on Page 5A for 400 grain bullets

 

[Chris M.]

The 416 Taylor rifle I loaded the 410 Woodleigh bullets was an unknown barrel manufacturer but built on a Mauser Model 98 action. Barrel length is 25 inches.

Landed on the following two loads to test: 74 grain of RL-17 and 75 grains RL-17 for each of Woodleigh 416 Rigby 410 grain RN SN bullets and corresponding 416 Rigby 410 grain FMJ bullets. I also loaded up some of the 350 grain 416 Barnes TSX bullets that came with the rifle and used 73 grains of RL-17. I did also purchase 75 rounds of Norma 416 Taylor brass from Prophet River Sports in Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada. I annealed and fire formed (using cream of wheat), Hornady 458 Rem brass and sized to 416. COAL of the Woodleigh bullets is 84.43 mm and 85.54 mm for the Barnes 350 grain.

To crimp, ended up getting a Lee Factory Crimp die specific for the 416 Taylor from a store in Pretoria, South Africa (RSA) which I picked up with my son passing through during a hunt in RSA just before the lock-down at the end of March 2020. This item makes the perfect crimp and is truly a unicorn - perhaps one of a few left in the world and in stock at safari outdoor for 150 Rand (https://safarioutdoor.co.za/416-taylor-lee-factory-crimp-die-g00110927.html).

RL-17 I believe is a good powder for short magnums (N.B. - I use for my 300 WSM loads) and is not reportedly as temperature sensitive as RL-15, its predecessor powder for such applications. I waited for a good hot day to test (which in the foothills of Alberta at 28 Celsius is as hot as it gets). Results as follows (100 yard target range):

The 350 grain bullets made a tight grouping at 100 yards (O.5").

The 410 grain Woodleigh RN SN grouping with 75 grain RL-17 came out at 1.12 inches and the FMJ very close. I believe the rifle is capable of better accuracy - i.e., it took me my surprise the roar of this fire breathing dragon compared to shooting my my muzzle braked and tamed 300 WSM. There were no pressure signs including bulged or deformed brass, primer flattening or difficulty in removing spent rounds.

Measured velocity using a friend's Magnetospeed and happy with the reproducibility of the 75 grain RL-17 loads: i 2,346 ft/s; ii 2,359 ft/s; and, iii 2,354 ft/s (SD of 6.5). So I have achieved 416 Rigby performance with the Taylor!

 

[Chris M.]

The Woodleigh 410 grain RN SN performed quite well on the Cape Buffalo shot in RSA in July 2022. Shot distance was 110 yards. The bullet passed through the upper heart, aorta and lung attachment area and killed the buff with one soft point. The bullet mushroomed perfectly and was recovered in the opposite shoulder. While unweighed as of yet, weight retention is probably quite high as the photo attests to.

The issue I have heard about with the Woodleigh RN SN bullets on thick skinned game such as buffalo, is the danger of over expanding when shot at close range. I guess that may be a bullet consideration for shooting at close range situations that can occur in thick brush.

 

[Rez Exelon]

@Chris M. That, sir, is amazing information and I am indebted to you for sharing!! I'm going to have to check if I have any RL-17 in inventory. But from that list I appear to have a lot of choices as I usually keep RL 15, 4320, 4064, 3031, W-748 all for various cartridges already. I just finished loading some 416 Rem Mag with RL15 and it'd be super if I could use that for both the RM and Taylor as I currently have a good pile of it with nothing else developed off the powder as of yet.

I will say, I was surprised to see W748 in the data too. That is one that I would not have thought of for sure!

 

[Chris M.]

You're welcome, Mr. Exelon!

RL15 is a great short magnum powder and from what I know of it from this forum and research on 416 caliber loads, should perform well for both of your 416 projects. I have heard about temperature sensitivity with this powder, that depending on when you would potentially hunt in Africa in terms of the time of year, may or may not have an influence as temperatures can be cooler all the way to 45 C (113F)! The Internet should have reviews about how temperatures sensitive the powder is actually.

 

[Rez Exelon]

WISH ME LUCK!!!

I just found that Amazon had a listing for the Lee 2 die 416 Taylor set (sold/shipped by Midway USA) that I bought as soon as I could click through the screens. The listing, headline and description all specifically called out the Taylor, but for some reason I think Lee uses the same part number for the 6.5x300 WBY so this has no guarantees until it shows up at my door I suppose. The waiting is going to be rough.....

 

[CoElkHunter]

WISH ME LUCK!!!

I just found that Amazon had a listing for the Lee 2 die 416 Taylor set (sold/shipped by Midway USA) that I bought as soon as I could click through the screens. The listing, headline and description all specifically called out the Taylor, but for some reason I think Lee uses the same part number for the 6.5x300 WBY so this has no guarantees until it shows up at my door I suppose. The waiting is going to be rough.....

Good luck and God's speed Taylorator!

 

[Altitude sickness]

Let us know how it turns out

 

[Rez Exelon]

So.... I had high hopes for this since the order was sold/shipped by Midway. Which is usually a trust worthy name. But the cold reality of the world set in as soon as I opened the box and saw three dies in a box that should only have two. I mean, based on the advertisement I certainly would have hoped for better. But they shipped 6.5-300WBY which seems to share the same part number in the world of Lee for some reason.

It's the 90983 in the UPC that is the same between both sets and ruins everything. /sigh/ I just hoped for better since clearly the ad noted the caliber multiple times in multiple places, unlike many clearly screwy ones where it's a combination between the taylor and the wby.

Back to looking I guess. But at least I got my Lee Factory crimp die for the 416 Rem today so I can finish those rounds off. And I started ona 7x57Mauser project to keep my hands from being idle.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

I would send them a polite email asking why they sent you weatherby dies when you clearly ordered and paid for 416 Taylor dies, including the screenshot of the add. And when they ignore you, then go to town on them, bad social media posts will hurt them more than lawyers will, and will cost you less.
I could just be a grumpy old curmudgeon, but it seems to me that over the last few years businesses just don’t seem to cast about customer service anymore.
gumpy

 

[Rez Exelon]

I would send them a polite email asking why they sent you weatherby dies when you clearly ordered and paid for 416 Taylor dies, including the screenshot of the add. And when they ignore you, then go to town on them, bad social media posts will hurt them more than lawyers will, and will cost you less.
I could just be a grumpy old curmudgeon, but it seems to me that over the last few years businesses just don’t seem to cast about customer service anymore.
gumpy

Yeah, they responded and just said "whoops. Well return it then".

I had higher hopes for midway based on previous experiences. But definitely I'll be sharing the experience... Hence the update here as a start. Definitely passing on some projos from them I planned to order as well

 

[Chris M.]

Too bad about Midway and that otherwise would be a really good price ($45 USD) for a a set of 416 Taylor dies.

There is a much more expensive set of 416 Taylor dies at Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada. The Redding full length reloading die set sells for $359 CDN plus whatever shipping will be. Seems the price has gone up considerably from when I bought; but nevertheless, is a good set of dies. This set also includes the crimp ring.

Prophet River also carries Barnes and North Fork 416 caliber bullets so maybe offset shipping costs by buying some more items if needed. Not sure about transport requirements to the US but they do that at Prophet River and can give you the lowdown on the requirements.

REDDING - FULL LENGTH SETS - 416 TAYLOR - CUSTOM - 80568

 

[Rez Exelon]

Too bad about Midway and that otherwise would be a really good price ($45 USD) for a a set of dies.

There is a much more expensive set of 416 Taylor dies at Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada. The Redding full length reloading die set sells for $359 CDN plus whatever shipping will be. Seems the price has gone up considerably from when I bought; but nevertheless, is a good set of dies. This set also includes the crimp ring.

Prophet River also carries Barnes and North Fork 416 caliber bullets so maybe offset shipping costs by buying some more items if needed. Not sure about transport requirements to the US but they do that at Prophet River and can give you the lowdown on the requirements.

REDDING - FULL LENGTH SETS - 416 TAYLOR - CUSTOM - 80568

I found a Redding sizing die on guns international for 100 that I'll take a chance on. It might work out well since I have a set of Redding 416 Ruger dies as well so I can complete the set using that seater. Makes me a bit nervous sending a check but I could at least get the person via the address I got so it's probably legit. Cross my fingers and wait on round two. At least in the meantime I went ahead and finished case trimming and had leftover time to anneal even. These all came courtesy of @eyedok and look so nice after wet tumble and such. Basically I just need to size as a final bit of prep and they'll be ready for some Woodleighs.

 

[Rez Exelon]

So a few developments on this thread. Got my Redding 416 Taylor die today! Hurray! The guns intl listing didn't scam me!

So to the bench it was this afternoon. Previously I prepped the brass with trim, chamfer, deburr, flashole cleaning, and annealing. Probably missing some steps but they got the full treatment.

So what I call "batch A" is cases that appear to be new and unfired, but previously sized. I hit these with Hornady Oneshot and ran them through no sweat. Boom! 40 cases ready.

Moved to "Batch B" which are previously sized and fired. This time just using Oneshot appeared to almost wreck everything with 2 cases nearly sticking. Pulled out the RCBS lube pad and redid all cases with that instead and had no other issues.

BUT then here comes the hijinks. batch A had 40. Nice even beautiful number. Batch B had 32. Ugly number. So I decided to take the 2 cases and pop a Speer and Woodleigh in as reference rounds. So using zero book data at all I seated them the their cannalure, popped them in the magwell, and did a chamber/extraction test (the main point of making these at this point).

While that passed I ran into this condition. The round had no major issues going in or coming out. When extracted the bullets appeared to be in the same spot. But pushing on them showed that they were no longer holding tension. I could push them in as shown. Also the cases showed some ugly marks that somewhat concern me.

Now, this poses a question. My initial instinct is to believe the brass in spec after sizing, so why the tension loss after feeding on both bullets. The larger Woodleigh I could see, but I'd expect the shorter Speer to not be an issue if it were a chamber problem. Or maybe I just need a crimp die (and FFL to me finding one if so).

Thoughts??