404 jeffery vs 416 Rigby

I think Spike found some Grey Goose!

nope even in joburg duty free on way to pemba no orange grey goose.....:(....peach and another shite flavour :A Ill:....wasnt even absolute mandarin.......:A Banana Sad:..... so on the :D Beers:

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@spike.t I mourn for you! :cry: :A Bang Head: Just poured myself a glass of Ardmore from the bottle I bought at Sydney airport, the other week! Mmm ... very nice! :A Stirring: and ... no one has ever seriously accused me of being a nice guy! :D
 
@spike.t Just get some clear alcohol (of the drinkable type) and throw in some fruit juice. :D Most of the clear drinking spirits made in NZ are a byproduct of Fonterra's dairy processing.
I'll have to remember that, we use Ethanol by the 250litre drum at the farm... oh wait, maybe i shouldnt tell @spike.t this!!! :A Stirring::D Beer Bottle::D Passed Out:
 
Every time this thread pops up, it makes me want to get one of these calibers!!!
 
You and me both ! I'm on the hunt right now and leaning toward the 404 more than the 416s. Maybe owning both would cure the ailment ;)

Yes it probably would cure it! I also would lean towards a .404 but is a deal came around on a Rigby I wouldn't pass it up
 
There is one online right now. I'd send you a PM with the link but I don't see an option to PM on my screen, it's possible I'm not looking in the right place.
 
Members, if you shoot a 450 gn bullet from the 404 Jeffery at 2150f/s it gives you a better sectional density than a 500 (y)(y)(y):LOL:gn bullet shot from a .458 Win Mag ...
 
The 450 gr. in 404 does have a higher S.D. than the 500 gr. in 458 Win Mag. Even when the 450 gr. 404 is calmly lying on a table. :rolleyes:
 
I am big fan of the .404 but concede that the Rigby is probably at least the more powerful if not better round. Both are big, the Rigby is bigger. Standard load for the Rigby is 400-410grs at 2400fps. The Jeffery standard is 400grs at somewhere between 2150 and 2300 depending on the maker. Some manuals show up to 2500fps with the .404. But if the Jeff can do that,the Rigby can do more as it has the larger boiler room. Both were meant to deliver their payload at lower pressures, the reason for the oversized cases. If both are loaded in equal guns at max pressure, the Rigby wins.
As mentioned above...would it be possible for a member to give us a comparison of both calibers shooting a 450 gn bullet at 2150 f/s what is the difference between these two calibers in performance??
At a recent course I attended the 404 Jeffery seems to be the preferred rifle when you shoot a 450 gn bullet at 2150 f/t ...there is currently a game ranger who is experimenting in using a 404 Jeffery to shoot a 470 gn bullet to see it`s penetration capabilities...(y)(y)
 
Paul, can you assist in giving us results of this comparison??
 
I just return from a blue wildebeest hunt , I used a 350 gn Stewart core bonded bullet, S365, 75 gn powder ,at about 2150 f/s I believe this to be an overkill after seeing the damaged done to the bone structure on the blue wildebees...I definitely need to download to 1850 f/s if the bullet will group and stabilize...what I also noticed is the absence of bruised meat , damaged meat as if the use of high velocity bullet at short distances...(y)(y)
 
Paul, can you assist in giving us results of this comparison??
Gert,

If the standard rifling twist stabilizes the very heavy for caliber bullet in this instance, the 470 grains that you mention, which in the 404 (.423) would have a sectional density of .38 (.37525 to be exact ) it still may suffer a bit in the speed department. I don't know what speeds can be achieved with it and if it leaves the optimum curve (stabilization/speed/energy/penetration etc...) at that weight. It may not.

It seems to me that the only way to measure it's efficiency would be on actual game shot at various distances. Since we know that a bullet that may seem stabilized on paper, may at times start tumbling immediately upon hitting a medium.

A very dense metal (sectional density wouldn't change) would provide a shorter bullet
and therefore unquestionably enhance stabilization which is largely a function of length/shape of the projectile in a barrel. It may not be needed in the 404. The larger bores may be more forgiving, I'm strictly talking in generalities. A full metal jacket over lead may be enough. I doubt however that a solid would stabilize properly.

To make up for rate of twist, speed is the answer but for approximately one inch more in twist rate, the speed needed is in the order of far more than can be achieved reasonably/safely in a cartridge. I know that in lighter bores an additional speed of 1000 fps to 1500 fps is needed (for bullets already going fast) to barely start compensating for the effect of lack of a faster twist and that that compensation is incremental at best...Too fast a twist has other adverse effects such as yielding slower speeds for example. Super high speed also has other effects such as creating a very elliptical trajectory at times very eccentric which would affect accuracy. In other words, in a long trajectory, which isn't the case for a medium bore, a bullet may over the course of its flight at various distances hit point of aim but also hit off of its point of aim at other intervals and distances during the same flight.

When Barnes still made a 250 grains bullet in .30 caliber, I bought a couple of boxes for hunting in a 300 Weatherby but never ended up trying them. (S.D of 250 grains .308 caliber is .37648 or .38) Very comparable to a 470 grains bullet in the 404). In fact almost identical which gives a good frame of reference.

After seeing in competition that from a 150 grains perfectly stabilized 7mm caliber going to a 162 grains bullet made all things go to hell; key holing on paper. (Speeds were under 2000 fps. for all bullet weights, these same bullets all worked well at higher rifle speeds, on average 1000 fps faster, in various 7 mm) To me the eye opener was that even though they were standard not heavy for caliber bullets, the slightly heavier ones suffered at low speed with barrels of slightly slower twist rates.

My examples may not apply to larger bores, since a 380 grains bullet in .375 caliber made in South Africa (S.D. .38603 or .39) from what I understand was working, a 470 grains in 404 may also work quite well. I'm sorry if I'm not providing concrete answers but these would be beyond my scope. The only way to know is to test. I personally like to experiment in an amateurish manner at the range but not while hunting when I stick to standard weight bullets, slightly on the heavy for caliber side.

best regards,

Paul
 
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Thank you Paul, I have ordered 450 gn Stewart core bonded bullets for my 404 Jeffery...I want to see how they penetrate and stabilize ..then I want to see if I can shoot them at 2050 f/s ..I want to hunt blue wildebees and eland to see how these bullets perform..already I saw how devastating the 350 gn performed on the blue wildebees yesterday..it really dropped the blue wildebees like a ton of bricks and left huge holes through the rib cage and shoulder blade...
Dr. Kevin Robinson is a firm believer in the performance of a 404 Jeffery shooting a 450 gn bullet at 2150 f/s ..as mentioned after seeing what the 350gn bullets did I really believe penetration of these bullets from a 404 Jeffery will be devastating as well(y)(y)(y)(y)
 
As mentioned above...would it be possible for a member to give us a comparison of both calibers shooting a 450 gn bullet at 2150 f/s what is the difference between these two calibers in performance??
At a recent course I attended the 404 Jeffery seems to be the preferred rifle when you shoot a 450 gn bullet at 2150 f/t ...there is currently a game ranger who is experimenting in using a 404 Jeffery to shoot a 470 gn bullet to see it`s penetration capabilities...(y)(y)

Bert,

As I'm sure you know, no one is more qualified than a game ranger who knows what terminal performance he is after and who has access to a wide variety of game to obtain results from real world tests. I am now curious to know how the 470 grains works in the 404.

best,

Paul
 
Thank you Paul, I have ordered 450 gn Stewart core bonded bullets for my 404 Jeffery...I want to see how they penetrate and stabilize ..then I want to see if I can shoot them at 2050 f/s ..I want to hunt blue wildebees and eland to see how these bullets perform..already I saw how devastating the 350 gn performed on the blue wildebees yesterday..it really dropped the blue wildebees like a ton of bricks and left huge holes through the rib cage and shoulder blade...
Dr. Kevin Robinson is a firm believer in the performance of a 404 Jeffery shooting a 450 gn bullet at 2150 f/s ..as mentioned after seeing what the 350gn bullets did I really believe penetration of these bullets from a 404 Jeffery will be devastating as well(y)(y)(y)(y)

You're very welcome Gert,

I agree and I also think that the 450 grains would be perfect for elan.
I've looked at various 416s and the 404 Jeffery. The 404 seems to be calling.

Is Dr. Kevin Robinson the gentleman who developed the 380 grains bullet in .375 caliber ?

Paul
 

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