400 H&H

[CTDolan]

Given the length of my purse, though, I've gone with the 416 Ruger in a Guide Gun, fitted with Hogue's stock (full length aluminum bedding block, olive drab exterior...it's the third stock to have been on the gun and the one I am sticking with as it shoulders well, shoots well and is as stable as they come, capable of surviving anything short of a direct hit from a nuclear warhead!). To me, my little Ruger is my poor man's 450/400 (with about 100 fps added on for good measure).

 

[zephyr]

Finally got to the range last week, it only rained 20 days in the month of May here in Vermont and many of the mornings started in the low 40s high 30s so it has been tough to get motivated let alone get my vegetable garden in.
For those interested my 400H&H is a re-barreled Win Mod 70 375H&H, sporting a 24" Shilen Barrel.
My previous hunting loads consisted of a 400gr CEB solid and 370gr Raptor the latter I shot a Buff with in 2012 and a 300gr TSX that I have shot an Elk cow and numerous piggies.
The CEB bullets I used Varget and they left the gun at 2430 and 2475fps shooting to same POI. The Barnes bullet I used H4198 and it left the end of the gun at 2700fps.
I am departing for the Save August 17th for a Buff and Eland hunt and decided on Northfork's 400gr SS and Solid for the Eland and as a scoped back up for my 450 NE.
Just got in the 400gr Solids but here are some early results from the 400gr SS.
I am on the road and I don't have all my data with me but promise when the Solids are sent down range I will finish this report.
Started off with 73grs of Varget, the load crossed the Chrony at an avg of 2320 and marginal Accuracy, next up 74grns Varget, velocity 2370 very consistent and Sub MOA. Being somewhat hung up on the magic of 2400fps I sent 75grns down range the velocity stayed the same and the group opened up, at 76grns the velocity moved to and avg of 2415 with nothing to impressive at the target.
Looks like 74grns may be the ticket I will send more down range when I work up loads for the solids.
The NF Solid like the CEB bullets are of a Bore Rider design so I'm guessing a few less grains of powder to get me down range with the same POI.
For what ever it is worth I shot a few 400gr CEB Solids to start of my range session all three rounds center punched the target at 2430 whereas the 400gr North Forks at 2370 were approx 2"s high and 2"s left.

 

[Pheroze]

...just ordered a set of dies and expander to convert the 375 brass I have......here I go again...

 

[Milehighshooter]

Who are you getting dies from? The 400 has been an itch I've wanted to scratch since it came out. And now I have a true magnum 98 action on the way....of course I have a spare 375 blank as well. Very tempted on the 400 though. I may rebarrel my 300 wby M70 to 375 H&H and do the 400 on the mauser. Figure that gives me 2 great African combos.....10.75x68 and 9.3x62, and 375 & 400. Obviously the difference is hunting in former German colonies vs English haha

 

[Pheroze]

It's actually a very interesting caliber. 300 gr at 2700 or 400gr at 2400. A lot of versatility!

Here is where I ordered the dies from:

https://www.ch4d.com/products/dies

Good luck with the projects, sounds very cool

 

[Milehighshooter]

Nice, that is where i purchased my 10.75x68mm dies. I'd be happy to buy from them again

 

[Pheroze]

Nice, that is where i purchased my 10.75x68mm dies. I'd be happy to buy from them again

That's great to hear! They are very good to deal with, but they seem to operate on a minimalist staffing model!

 

[Milehighshooter]

I was rather impressed. I sent an inquiry to them about the 10.75x68mm being in stock, and if they could send me one with an expander ball for .423 bullets instead of .424, they actually called ME to get everything rolling! One gal sent an email to say the 10.75x68mm was in stock, then a gentleman called me to confirm the expander size and get my order stated

 

[fourfive8]

on the topic of the 400 H&H, aside from its collectors value I don't see any reason to use it. no offense intended but it wont do anything the 416 Rem Mag cant do for less money.

-matt

Well said and I find it interesting that some (including a very well known and prolific gun and hunting writer!) tout the 400 H&H as being able to push a 400 grain bullet to 2400 fps AT LOWER PRESSURE with a smaller case capacity than the 416 Rem. Interesting physics indeed!

 

[Pheroze]

Well said and I find it interesting that some (including a very well known and prolific gun and hunting writer!) tout the 400 H&H as being able to push a 400 grain bullet to 2400 fps AT LOWER PRESSURE with a smaller case capacity than the 416 Rem. Interesting physics indeed!

It seems to me that a 400gr bullet going at 2400 fps is going to feel like...well a 400 gr bullet going at 2400fps! Although, I note from the reloading manuals that there is less powder to get there, so wouldn't that have an effect? But, I actually believe that the 400 H&H is a much cheaper proposition.

I settled on this cartridge for a lot of very random concepts:
If I grab a 300gr pill then it is an honest 250-300 yard 40 cal rifle. So, the flexibility is that of a 375 H&H with the effectiveness of a 450/400 - 416All in a very handy rifle.
I like that it uses the same bullet that made the 450/400 famous; If I load it to 2200fps I am essentially duplicating that round. If I go up then I brush against the 416's.
When I want to practice I can get very cheap 300 gr bullets to do so, so the cost is much lower. And, I suspect you could practice a lot more as the recoil will be less than if you were shooting 400gr bullets. So, more trigger time
I have looked at the 360gr North Forks and 316gr GS Customs (this one has a lot of promise! ) and I actually think that these bullets are probably more in the sweet spot for this caliber; more options....
It is an oddball and unusual. In a few years, I will probably be posting a story about how I got to Africa with my two battery 308 NM and 400 H&H and my ammo didn't! Until then, I like the fact that these are unusual calibers, it's fun in a nerdy kinda way

 

[fourfive8]

I'm certain the 400 H&H will do fine. Kind of like why did I build a 450 Watts instead of a 458 Lott

And yes, can't go wrong with either North Fork or GS. I have been particularly impressed with the North Fork Cup Point Solid.

 

[Pheroze]

particularly impressed with the North Fork Cup Point Solid.

That company seems to be a good one! Good to hear, thanks.

Love the idea of the Watts

 

[Pheroze]

This project is going to take a while! I thought I would post my voyage of discovery in case it is of interest to others considering it.

First off, I am learning that building a rifle with an obscure chambering is a slow process. I have spoken with my gunsmith and we have a plan to convert my 375 to the 400, and I will send it off soon. That part actually seems to be rather straight forward once I decide to "pull the trigger"...gathering the components is more of a planning issue.

I just received a box of Woodleigh 400gr .411 bullets. They are actually only rated to 2200 fps but I can get them relatively cheaply from Tradeexcanada.com. so, I figured a good practice round. It is tough finding inexpensive 0.411 bullets. The box arrived today...if you have never held a 400gr bullet you should. It's a beast. I have 350gr 375 cal bullets, and I think this is a big step up. Just by holding it I can now understand the recoil that comes with pushing this lump up a barrel. Eye opening I am getting a clearer picture of what a thumper a 40cal is

I now have dies and an expander to convert 375 brass to 400 H&H. BTW, C&H4D is great to deal with. I also want to get a Lee factory crimp, but it has to be custom made. To do this I have to load a dummy round and send it to them with $75. Hmmm, I don't think that resized 375 brass will have that long neck that the 400 H&H seems to have from the pictures I have seen...ok....no problem, I will order brass from Quali-cart....Summach Sports in Alberta will stock it, cool a Canadian connection!
Wait...I am told that it could take months to get here. I think I will order a bunch of it to avoid supply chain issues...


Now to wait....

Like I said, this is going to be a loooong process

On the upside, by the time this is finally built maybe I will have the funds for that buffalo/hippo hunt

 

[Pheroze]

L to R. .375 270 grain, .375 350 gr, .411 400gr

 

[zephyr]

My practice rounds have been either 400gr Hawk bullets or 300gr Hornady, the Hornady is by far the cheapest.
For Practice and even shooting local animals the re-sized 375 brass is more than adequate, the neck is a bit short but it will not matter.
I have CH dies as well, re-sizing 375 brass has been quite simple, lube and re-size there is a bit of a wrinkle but I load the case and shoot it out.
69grs of RL15 and a 300gr Hornady seems to so the job.
For practice I quite often shoot 400gr Hawk bullets using 77grs of Win 760 at 2200fps.
I crimp using the seating die there is so much neck tension with this case that going an extra mile ses not seem worth it even loading the CEB bullets I can create an adequate roll crimp.

 

[Pheroze]

I couldn't find the 300 gr Hornady bullets in Canada unfortunately. The Woodleigh at $65 a box was the next cheapest. Hawk are about $75 and delivery is, as the Jamaicans would say ,"soon -come"

 

[zephyr]

Help me out in Canada you cannot order from a company like Midway in the USA it has to be from a Canadian company ??
How about the Barnes .411 300gr TSX I think they are marketed for the 405 Win

 

[Pheroze]

The issue is that export permit required to get firearms and components out of the USA. Midway will not sell components to Canada. I do order some stuff through internationalreloading.com. but, there is a fee for the service and delay. Combine that with our dollar (a flexible term that) and it is usually not worth it. For example, I am looking at brass a costing about $135 to get a it to my door. I found the 300 tsx up here at about $67, so not bad at all. I just was avoiding the uncertainty of using the monometals and traditional bullets as I read about copper fouling. I think the tsx will be a good moose bullet.

I also found a small supply of the 360gr North Fork, but the retailer is not going to carry them much longer. They are about $107 a box! They don't sell much at all, so they are going to stop carrying it.

 

[Pheroze]

I am reviewing the Lee load data for the 416 Remington. Am I being reckless when I assume a starting load for the 416 Rem may also be a good place to start with the 400 H&H when dealing with the same powder and bullet weight?

 

[zephyr]

I would not be so concerned about fowling and the TSXs, that was a problem with the original bullets the TSX and TTSX do not fowl any more or any less then anything else that you run through your barrel, IMHO.
The Rem 416 is a great place to look for starting loads it is what we did on this side of the border.
NorthForks are expensive, but if you decide to use them for a special hunt when you factor in what the rest of the hunt cost it's not that big of a deal. Or so I keep telling myself.
Send your component orders here to Vermont and I can put them in Maple Syrup Jugs for you to bring back, no one will be the wiser cause everyone in Ontario knows that Vermont makes better Maple Syrup.