378 Wheatherby Magnum, opinions please

[Ray B]

72 doesn't sound as old as it did 40 years ago, does it??

 

[Dr Ray]

The cartridge is a fine round but, if you are relying on factory ammunition, that might be a problem in obtaining such.
The extra “crunch” has a mighty lot of additional recoil and muzzle blast.
Suggest you would need to reload and ensure you can obtain virgin brass etc.
The other thing to think about is the thrust erosion if the rifle has been fired a lot.
You may (stress may) find a blackened throat that would be indicative of having fired many rounds.
It’s a great caliber / cartridge and will certainly handle everything on this planet.

 

[Von S.]

Everything in the world comes at a price that eventually someone has to pay for.
Ok Doc, I have put many a barrel on, but I have yet to ever see a shot out 378 , but it can happen.

Barrel break in and maintenance is the key, also stop firing when the barrel is so hot that it burns you is a biggie.

 

[IvW]

Everything in the world comes at a price that eventually someone has to pay for.
Ok Doc, I have put many a barrel on, but I have yet to ever see a shot out 378 , but it can happen.

Barrel break in and maintenance is the key, also stop firing when the barrel is so hot that it burns you is a biggie.

Don't use an overbore caliber to start with.

378 Weatherby is bad caliber choice for Africa. Excess velocity, blown up bullets, flinching clients, muzzle breaks etc. etc. bad choice, many better options to use.

Take out a 378 or 460 Weatherby in camp and everybody will start cringing even the cook as he knows there will be some somber nights in camp due to wounded and lost came.

No thanks rather use a sensible caliber and leave the speed and recoil excessive calibers at home.

What on earth do you want to hunt in Africa with a 378 Weatherby that you cannot with either a 375 H&H or a 300 H&H or 300 WM in Africa?

The fun part is stalking into a close enough position before taking the shot!

Take a caliber you can shoot with confidence and with which you can place your first shot in the right place, that is all you need.

 

[Laeveld]

I had both 375 H&H and 378WBY. I could never get used to the recoil of Roy’s toy. It was just bloody unpleasant to shoot. Never tried bench shooting the gun. H&H feels positively tame after!

 

[Adrian]

Wait for a .375 and forget the Weatherby.

If the .375 is rare, I'm sure the .378 is rarer. Consider if you can find the bullets or reloading components to make your own.

How easy will it be?

Also, reading through these posts you will find many people like the .378 but offer variables about how best to shoot it, load it etc. That tells you it is not the best option.

Now ask the same question of the .375, I bet no one here has a bad word to say about it.

So you have a choice, wait for the right rifle in the right calibre or buy something that might be OK if you load it with this or try something else or add this to it to make it easier or or or or.......

 

[Von S.]

I have watched as two grown men tee'd off on each other over a disagreement over which beer was better.

I have seen people beat on one another of which team is best.

I have listened to people bad mouth calibers, makes of rifles, you name it.....even though they have never owned, fired or seen one in their lives.

I have heard people say that you can kill everything on this planet with an 30-06 and others say that the 308 is just as good as a 30-06. Others have said things like, a couple of hundred of feet per second more doesn't mean anything and that the animal killed by it doesn't know what speed the bullet is going and a faster bullet doesn't kill any better. And my favorite is the all important, chiseled in stone, and made to sound like they themselves have been there in person to witness first-hand how a person shot in the arm with a .45acp was magically liked up off the ground and thrown backwards being absolutely dead when they hit the ground, how the 458 win mag bullets bounce off big game, and how the name of weather by rifles should be re named "Woundabeast" and that no one can shoot them and make a clean kill.

It does make me laugh.

Yes! They do kick and if you use the wrong bullet for the wrong animal at too high of a speed they will blow up. But the same goes with all rounds.

It is bad info, rumor and people simply making stuff up and expanding on it until the opinion simply turns into a lie and it is impossible to fix once it takes hold.

One of my favorite rounds is the much maligned 264 Winchester magnum. Still bad-mouthed today there are rounds like the 26 Nosler somehow get a pass on the barrel burner stuff.

I don't use a recoil compansator on my 378 as I don't have a problem with the recoil. When loaded by someone who knows what they are doing .........in my estmation , is possible the finest example of the best "one gun arsenal" on this planet.

Good luck

 

[larry4831]

Mine weighed 10 1/2 pounds. I think it’s probably the hardest kicking rifle I’ve ever shot and I’ve shot a few big guns. Recoil is not only hard but it is also very fast. 375 H&H ,375 Weatherby but not the 378. Like someone else said earlier, the way the rifles designed doesn’t do you any favors either. One other thing, with a good 350 grain bullet it should hit like the hammer of Thor though. When I got rid of mine I had over 500 rounds through it, I did shoot it quite a bit though.

 

[Von S.]

There is quite a bit of stuff written here that I can agree with on the negative side.

It kicks! Hahahaha and it not comming with iron sites is most assuridly a minus in case the scope takes a dump. But that is fixable. The brass ain't cheap and neither are the bullets that will hold together.

Loading one down doesn't make sense to me at all in the same way loading any 300 mag to a 30-30 would.

About 25 years ago a gunshop sent me a guy who wanted to go to Africa and shoot an elephant and a cape and had only ever shot a 22. We talked and went to the range with a few rifles from 30-06 to 458 Wincheste mag. He complained of pain with the 06 so we packed up and I explained to him that maybe elephants and such weren't in the cards for him and possibly a good starter would be things like Impala and other smaller game. He agreed so at our next meeting I brought lighter stuff.

The rifle and caliber he liked the best was a 6.5 x 55 in a 96 carbine in full military configuration. And he beauty of it was he was hitting everything he was aiming at and at the second meeting when using sticks was hitting at 200 yards with iron sights.

He loved the rifle and went to Africa and took three animals by himself.

The point is that should he listened to his friends and went to a shop where I didn't pay a commission to the counter guy who recommended me he would have bought a 460 WM and would have probably given up on the spot.

10 years ago he called me and said that he thinks that he's ready to move up and when could we meet.

He said he just had to try the 460 , so I brought from a 375 H&H to the 460 and we started and he did fine at the ,375 and decided to jump right to the 460 which proved to be an error which took about an hour to shake off.

He liked the old Ruger i had with a Leopold 1 x 4 scope that looked band new and killed a cape and a lion by himself.

I recommended to anyone to try before you buy a big WM.


Go get em!

 

[One Day...]

OK, time for data...

A .300 Win Mag weighing 8.5 lbs and shooting 180 gr bullets at 2,960 fps will produce 25.9 ft/lb of free recoil energy with a recoil velocity of 14 fps.
A .378 Wby Mag weighing 10.25 lbs and shooting 300 gr bullets at 2,900 fps will produce 71.1 ft/lb of free recoil energy with a recoil velocity of 21 fps.

Is this a lot? Well, let us put things in perspective, here is more data:

A .416 Rigby weighing 10 lbs and shooting 400 gr bullets at 2,400 fps will produce 58.1 ft/lb of free recoil energy with a recoil velocity of 19 fps.

A .470 NE weighing 11 lbs and shooting 500 gr bullets at 2,150 fps will produce 69.3 ft/lb of free recoil energy with a recoil velocity of 20 fps.

So, FACTUALLY, a .378 Wby does not produce significantly more or faster recoil than a .470 NE. I do not recall much clamoring about how deadly the recoil of a .470 NE is..............

Should I rest my case?

NOT QUITE, because here is the big secret: most people do not put a scope on their .470, so when the gun recoils wildly in an improper shooter stance, nobody gets hurt. The gun just climbs, and climbs, and climbs, and the recoil on the shoulder is not enough to fracture a collarbone. By comparison, virtually all .378 Wby are scoped (heck! most of them come without iron sights, which is a shame) and the gun cannot climb and climb and climb. Instead it buries its scope deep and hard in the shooter's forehead, which is tremendously painful, in addition to being deeply traumatizing and resulting in a river of blood.

As for the Wby reputation in Africa...

The bad reputation of the .378 Wby (and most bigger Wby calibers) in Africa likely comes from the fact that, probably as a result of good marketing, a number of innocent folks who were used to shoot a .270 on deer in the US (8 lbs .270 Win. shooting 150 gr at 2900 fps = 17 ft/lb of recoil at 11.7 fps) bought a brand new Weatherby cannon to go to Africa and never learned to shoot it prior to showing up in camp. Of course, the vast number of them got pummeled to bloody pulp by the scope on the first 3 shots, got scared of the gun, and could not hit an entire barn shooting from the inside of it. Of course! But that is not the gun's fault, that was their fault.

No more than 4 weeks ago, I could see the look on my PH's face when I took my .340 Wby out of the case at the beginning of my 2 week plains game hunt in Eastern Cape. The .340 Wby is another of these "Oh my God, how can you shoot that?" calibers. It produces 43.4 ft/lbs or recoil at 17.6 fps. 2 weeks and 21 animals later, the trackers had nicknamed it "hammir" (the hammer) in the Khoisan dialect of Eastern Cape tribes. See the gun at https://www.africahunting.com/media/weatherby-mark-v-340-rifle.68827/ and the hunt report at https://www.africahunting.com/threa...faris-august-2018-plains-game-paradise.45017/.

Gone is the bad Weatherby reputation with this PH and these trackers.

A fair and objective warning!

Now do not let my experience with the .340 Wby make you rush to buy that .378 Wby. This is not what I mean. You will be properly shocked by the .378 recoil the first time you pull the trigger. My point is that you can LEARN to shoot the .378 if you shoot it enough (100 rounds is a strict minimum). By that time, if someone shows you the proper way to hold the rifle; the proper way to mount the scope (as forward as possible); the proper way to position your head on the stock; the proper way to NOT crawl the stock; etc. you will be amazed at what the caliber can do.

But, and these will be my parting words, one should not get into a big Weatherby casually. They will bite you hard. These calibers are not for everyone as these are very specialized highest performance tools. But if one makes the necessary commitment to learn and practice, with the proper modern mono-metal bullets such as the Barnes X this is likely the most universal caliber ever designed. After all, it IS a .375 H&H on steroids!

 

[One Day...]

I have watched as two grown men tee'd off on each other over a disagreement over which beer was better.

I have seen people beat on one another of which team is best.

I have listened to people bad mouth calibers, makes of rifles, you name it.....even though they have never owned, fired or seen one in their lives.

I have heard people say that you can kill everything on this planet with an 30-06 and others say that the 308 is just as good as a 30-06. Others have said things like, a couple of hundred of feet per second more doesn't mean anything and that the animal killed by it doesn't know what speed the bullet is going and a faster bullet doesn't kill any better. And my favorite is the all important, chiseled in stone, and made to sound like they themselves have been there in person to witness first-hand how a person shot in the arm with a .45acp was magically liked up off the ground and thrown backwards being absolutely dead when they hit the ground, how the 458 win mag bullets bounce off big game, and how the name of weather by rifles should be re named "Woundabeast" and that no one can shoot them and make a clean kill.

It does make me laugh.

Yes! They do kick and if you use the wrong bullet for the wrong animal at too high of a speed they will blow up. But the same goes with all rounds.

It is bad info, rumor and people simply making stuff up and expanding on it until the opinion simply turns into a lie and it is impossible to fix once it takes hold.

One of my favorite rounds is the much maligned 264 Winchester magnum. Still bad-mouthed today there are rounds like the 26 Nosler somehow get a pass on the barrel burner stuff.

I don't use a recoil compansator on my 378 as I don't have a problem with the recoil. When loaded by someone who knows what they are doing .........in my estmation , is possible the finest example of the best "one gun arsenal" on this planet.

Good luck

AMEN!!!! Especially the part about "even though they have never owned, fired or seen one in their lives."
Sadly, even africahunting.com is not immune to 'internet expertise'...
Generally: the more dogmatic and intransigent, the more 'internet expert' or just plain ignorant...
OK, I am not being very nice here, I need to stop.

About 25 years ago a gunshop sent me a guy who wanted to go to Africa and shoot an elephant and a cape and had only ever shot a 22...

Amen again! Those of us who shoot well the big Weatherby did not get there overnight and did not transition from .243 to the Roy's mega-boomers overnight. I can honestly say that I shoot my .340 Wby as casually as most folks shoot their .270 Win, but it did not come overnight. It took me graduating through .300 and .338, and several hundreds of these and .340 rounds before I got there.

 

[flatwater bill]

I have used two 378's over the years..........one a heavy custom and one an 8.5 lb Wby MkV. The recoil of the latter was intolerable with full loads. The 10 lb custom with a brake was not bad at all. I think that if bullet technology had been where it is today, I would still own a 378. It's ability to put energy on a distant target is rivaled by few calibers. On the 26" custom, I drove the the then available 300 grain Sierra BT at over 3000 fps. Quite a bit over, actually. The bad rep lives on, but the game has changed. I think this would make a great choice for the right guy after the right game........best of luck..............FW Bill

 

[larry4831]

I have used two 378's over the years..........one a heavy custom and one an 8.5 lb Wby MkV. The recoil of the latter was intolerable with full loads. The 10 lb custom with a brake was not bad at all. I think that if bullet technology had been where it is today, I would still own a 378. It's ability to put energy on a distant target is rivaled by few calibers. On the 26" custom, I drove the the then available 300 grain Sierra BT at over 3000 fps. Quite a bit over, actually. The bad rep lives on, but the game has changed. I think this would make a great choice for the right guy after the right game........best of luck..............FW Bill

I’ve shot a lot bigger guns than the 378 Weatherby. I used to have at 340 Weatherby, no muzzle break but it was a piece of cake to shoot I’ve shot 500 nitro 577 Nitro not too bad, but that 378 it is just absolutely brutal I don’t care what the specs look like on paper , They are absolutely brutal and mine didn’t have a break. The mark five that I had look more like a deer rifle then a rifle for heavy game. 26 inch barrel sling stud on the for end of the rifle and not on the barrel no sights, and it was wicked . If it had a heavier barrel open sights and a better designed stock I think they would be shootable.

 

[One Day...]

I have used two 378's over the years..........one a heavy custom and one an 8.5 lb Wby MkV. The recoil of the latter was intolerable with full loads. The 10 lb custom with a brake was not bad at all ...

... that 378 it is just absolutely brutal ... The mark five that I had look more like a deer rifle then a rifle for heavy game ... If it had a heavier barrel open sights and a better designed stock I think they would be shootable.

100% agreed, this is why I stated:

...
Now do not let my experience with the .340 Wby make you rush to buy that .378 Wby. This is not what I mean. You will be properly shocked by the .378 recoil the first time you pull the trigger...

Interestingly, the .378 Wby I shot was a Mark V, but it was the so-called Mark V Dangerous Game Rifle, with a heavier barrel, iron sights, and barrel band front sling stud. It was threaded for a muzzle break but mercifully did not wear one. It had a 2 lbs mercury recoil reducer in the stock, bringing the gun to 11 lbs if memory serves, and it was not scoped which negated the principal issue: getting hit by the stock. The gun was not unreasonably unpleasant to shoot, but that was because that specific model precisely addressed the issues identified by @flatwater bill and @larry4831.

@C Gamboa could consider: 1) replacing the light wood stock with a heavier and sturdier Bell & Carlson Medalist Kevlar & Aramid stock with full length aluminum bedding block and pillars; 2) putting a 1 lb mercury recoil reducer in the stock (or just a 1 lb lead rod); 3) mounting one of the heavier scope on it (like one of the used Zeiss or Schmidt & Bender of the previous generation, before they succumbed to the 'ever-lighter' marketing misguided push); and 4) using heavier steel mounts and rings (e.g. Talley). That would give him a ~11.5 lbs gun, which is not ridiculous, and which would be a completely different beast. Still a hard and fast recoiling rifle though, but one can learn to live with it...

Personally, the recoil in itself, or for that matter the stock shape, do not really concern me overly as long as the dang scope is far forward enough. This is the biggest issue for me. My .458 Lott is 8 lb 13 oz exactly (which is too light) and recoils more than a .378 Wby (79 ft/lbs vs. 71) and just as fast because the gun is light. It has a long eye relief Docter III red dot, so I am not afraid of getting hit, and I manage to have fun shooting it, but more than 15 rounds in a row gives me a head heck... https://www.africahunting.com/media/cz-550-416-rigby-rifle-mauser-66-458-lott-rifle.61217/

 

[Ray B]

When I go to the range I'll take an assortment of centerfire rifles ranging from .223 to 458. I am sequential in firing them but am undecided if it is best to shoot in ascending or descending order. If I start with the .223 then up through 257, 30-06, 338, 375, 404 to 458 the recoil mounts like stairs and I accustom to it incrementally. Or the other option is to start out with the 458 and work down. The appeal to this method is that having endured the heavy recoil each subsequent step is a reduction. After using both methods for several years I still have not made up my mind which I prefer.

Any thoughts or opinions regarding how you go about determining the order in which you shoot rifles during rangetime?

 

[larry4831]

100% agreed, this is why I stated:


Interestingly, the .378 Wby I shot was a Mark V, but it was the so-called Mark V Dangerous Game Rifle, with a heavier barrel, iron sights, and barrel band front sling stud. It was threaded for a muzzle break but mercifully did not wear one. It had a 2 lbs mercury recoil reducer in the stock, bringing the gun to 11 lbs if memory serves, and it was not scoped which negated the principal issue: getting hit by the stock. The gun was not unreasonably unpleasant to shoot, but that was because that specific model precisely addressed the issues identified by @flatwater bill and @larry4831.

@C Gamboa could consider: 1) replacing the light wood stock with a heavier and sturdier Bell & Carlson Medalist Kevlar & Aramid stock with full length aluminum bedding block and pillars; 2) putting a 1 lb mercury recoil reducer in the stock (or just a 1 lb lead rod); 3) mounting one of the heavier scope on it (like one of the used Zeiss or Schmidt & Bender of the previous generation, before they succumbed to the 'ever-lighter' marketing misguided push); and 4) using heavier steel mounts and rings (e.g. Talley). That would give him a ~11.5 lbs gun, which is not ridiculous, and which would be a completely different beast. Still a hard and fast recoiling rifle though, but one can learn to live with it...

Personally, the recoil in itself, or for that matter the stock shape, do not really concern me overly as long as the dang scope is far forward enough. This is the biggest issue for me. My .458 Lott is 8 lb 13 oz exactly (which is too light) and recoils more than a .378 Wby (79 ft/lbs vs. 71) and just as fast because the gun is light. It has a long eye relief Docter III red dot, so I am not afraid of getting hit, and I manage to have fun shooting it, but more than 15 rounds in a row gives me a head heck... https://www.africahunting.com/media/cz-550-416-rigby-rifle-mauser-66-458-lott-rifle.61217/

What you described sounds like a shootable rifle. Mine wasn’t, and I did shoot that rifle quite a bit, as a matter of fact, I shot it so much that the doctors that I had been seeing thinks that’s what caused my arthritis in my shoulder and I had to have the shoulder replaced about a year ago. Yeah the mark five 378 Weatherby I had looked more like a glorified deer rifle then a heavy game rifle.

 

[One Day...]

... Any thoughts or opinions regarding how you go about determining the order in which you shoot rifles during rangetime?

Here is not quite a direct answer, but I think that it addresses the same question...

One method that I have used very successfully to introduce my sons (and a few friends) to the big guns it to start by having them shoot some rounds of 1-7/8 oz 3" loads with a 12 gauge shotgun at clay birds, then at a paper target. By the time they do that, their sense of "normal recoil" is already at 54 ft/lbs, which is already twice as much as a .300 Win Mag but does not carry the "big magnum" psychological stigma. Going then up to .416 Rigby is a breeze (55 ft/lbs) or plinking with a .375 H&H is a downright delight (37 ft/lbs).
I have them shoot standing off sticks or off-hand at 25 yd at a 12" steel plate so that their body can roll with the recoil and, more importantly, they can focus more on 'whacking the heck out of the plate' rather than on 'Oh my God, the gun is going to hurt me.' Also, I start them on iron sights so that there is no scope hit to be concerned with.
Only after a few boxes of cheap ammo in that way (40 to 60 rounds), in a few sessions, did we clamp the detachable scope on the gun and start shooting from field rest positions. By that time, they were utterly comfortable with the .375 H&H and .416 Rigby (CZ550).
This has worked well so far with everyone I have done that with. I do not keep .458 Win ammo anymore (all I have is Lott) but I reckon that this would work fine too with the .458 Win which recoils less than the .416 when you use 400 gr. .458 bullets (42 ft/lbs in a 9 lbs gun).

In any configuration, I would think that if you shoot yourself and already know how to shoot the big guns, it does not really matter whether you go up or down, but if you are teaching someone new to shoot them I would definitely go from light to heavy, e.g. shoot 400 gr .458 Win (42 ft/lbs) before 500 gr .458 Win (62 ft/lbs)

 

[One Day...]

What you described sounds like a shootable rifle. Mine wasn’t, and I did shoot that rifle quite a bit, as a matter of fact, I shot it so much that the doctors that I had been seeing thinks that’s what caused my arthritis in my shoulder and I had to have the shoulder replaced about a year ago. Yeah the mark five 378 Weatherby I had looked more like a glorified deer rifle then a heavy game rifle.

Yep, Roy was quite misguided in some bizarre ways, while a true visionary in others. I love the .257, .300 and .340 but his idea of a DG rifle was quite off. Sorry for your shoulder. I hope it is OK.

 

[larry4831]

Yep, Roy was quite misguided in some bizarre ways, while a true visionary in others. I love the .257, .300 and .340 but his idea of a DG rifle was quite off. Sorry for your shoulder. I hope it is OK.

It’s OK now because I don’t have the old shoulder anymore my new ones made of metal. However my surgeon told me to shoot whatever I want I said what about recoil, he said you go ahead and shoot whatever you want. So that was good news and I do for the most part I have a 416 ruger and I shoot, 375 H&H and 458 Winchester And I don’t have any problems, knock on wood

 

[ChrisG]

I personally like the idea of the bigger Weatherby cases.... not built on a Weatherby rifle though (I personally find them gaudy and hideous, but thats just my opinion), but a nice, english stocked CRF rifle in .460 Weatherby would be great! It isn't because it can push a 500 grain bullet to 2,700 fps either. I would prefer it because you can push a 600 grain bullet to 2,150fps with VERY low pressure. If I were so inclined, would have one built and then load it down to standard speeds. The massive case would keep pressures quite low and it would be a magnificent DG caliber as long as you didn't try to push it. I like the idea of an Nitro Express'esque 45k pressure cartridge available in a magazine rifle. Maybe I will turn the rim off a .475 No. 2...Do you think you could open a Winchester M70 up to 4.5"?