375 Ruger vs 375 HH

[Rick Cox]

I cannot believe the downright rudeness and arrogance of the response of certain individuals to what should be an interesting dialog. The Ruger is a better cartridge. Period. I own an H and H. No animal on the planet is going to know the difference. My PH in Namibia uses a Ruger.

 

[Rick Cox]

Great r

Only half correct. The 375Ruger brass can not be formed into 8X68 brass. To short.

Now this brings up my next point The H&H case and magazine length allow you to use the 350 grain 375 bullets without reducing the powder space available for usable powder. Not so with the 375 Ruger. The H&H case allows you to use the mono metal bullets without reducing the amount of usable powder space as much as the Ruger. So for some hand loading aspects the Ruger is not a good choice.

For the above reasons the H&H case is a more user friendly case. However the Ruger is in the lead as far as the race to the bottom of rifle quality goes. That is manufacturers are cutting as many cost from their products as possible. So a shorter action is cheaper than a longer action and other quality of rifles are diminishing. In this regard the Ruger is leading in the Race to the Bottom and for this reason alone the 375 Ruger will stay and eventually dominate the 375 market.

Just my 2 bobs worth.

Great response. Don't agree with your last paragraph though. Shorter action is stiffer, and in theory faster to cycle. Cheaper yes, it is a standard length, is that bad? They don't make cars like they used to, thank goodness for that! 100,000 miles was getting old 50 years ago, cars today are still young at that point.

 

[Rick Cox]

C

second wind i was also trying to work out what the norwegian language/"norwegian thing" is about. i think your whole post was pretty condescending , bit out of order really.

Could not agree more!

 

[Ryan]

Only half correct. The 375Ruger brass can not be formed into 8X68 brass. To short.

Now this brings up my next point The H&H case and magazine length allow you to use the 350 grain 375 bullets without reducing the powder space available for usable powder. Not so with the 375 Ruger. The H&H case allows you to use the mono metal bullets without reducing the amount of usable powder space as much as the Ruger. So for some hand loading aspects the Ruger is not a good choice.

For the above reasons the H&H case is a more user friendly case. However the Ruger is in the lead as far as the race to the bottom of rifle quality goes. That is manufacturers are cutting as many cost from their products as possible. So a shorter action is cheaper than a longer action and other quality of rifles are diminishing. In this regard the Ruger is leading in the Race to the Bottom and for this reason alone the 375 Ruger will stay and eventually dominate the 375 market.

Just my 2 bobs worth.

Progress is just as heartless.

The fact is the Ruger round can be put into a standard length action used for so many other common cartridges and manufacturers are taking advantage of it. At the same time manufacturing is to the point you can purchase a high quality firearm at a 'cheap' price. My Savage stainless 16 in 7mm-08 was well under a grand over a year ago and can shoot sub-MOA and cycles flawlessly too. I recall Savage making a model in 375 Ruger so it's quite possible to buy a quality "cheap" rifle in that caliber. Do you prefer a Mauser style action? Then Ruger has you covered, Etc. Etc.
My hat is off to the 375 H&H, it's resume is damned impressive and will continue, but the 375 Ruger is not trash.

 

[Rule 303]

Progress is just as heartless.

The fact is the Ruger round can be put into a standard length action used for so many other common cartridges and manufacturers are taking advantage of it. At the same time manufacturing is to the point you can purchase a high quality firearm at a 'cheap' price. My Savage stainless 16 in 7mm-08 was well under a grand over a year ago and can shoot sub-MOA and cycles flawlessly too. I recall Savage making a model in 375 Ruger so it's quite possible to buy a quality "cheap" rifle in that caliber. Do you prefer a Mauser style action? Then Ruger has you covered, Etc. Etc.
My hat is off to the 375 H&H, it's resume is damned impressive and will continue, but the 375 Ruger is not trash.

By Race to the Bottom I tend to mean, Ruger push the Ruger American rifle over the 77, Rem the 783 over the 700 etc. Yes they shoot but the quality is lacking. The standard length action is still a short cut. As I said you can not load the heavier bullets or mono metals a to the same performance as you can with a H&H Magnum in a magnum length action. Yep the 375 Ruger is a good cartridge but not as versatile as the H&H case. But because of the cheaper option of shorter actions for the Ruger375 most will over look the draw backs, hell most probably will never want to load the heavier and longer bullets. It is not a rubbish round but not as versatile as the H&H. I don't believe I said the Ruger was a rubbish round just a cheaper one.

The Savage 16 family might have been cheap to produce but they had original engineering go into them they still put quality into them have not seen one that would not shoot.

I believe that if Ruger had of based their 375 and 416 on the Rigby case as Norma did then this would not be such a problem as, with a fatter case you will get just as much powder in although the projectile is sitting deeper in the case than with the H&H case. maybe if Ruger do what Rem did with their 375H&H in the 700. Open the action length up a bit this would over come the performance issue..........oh wait that might increase the cost. Come to think of it my Rem 700 in 375H&H cost less than the Ruger 77 in 375 Ruger

Yep progress is heartless and I participate in it as much as anybody and although I don't like some of it I do know it needs to happen, so I am a bit of a hypocrite

 

[Red Leg]

I find recent Ruger quality pretty questionable. But then again, even in Bill's day their corporate culture was to rush a product to market and fix emerging issues in production. Sometimes it worked - their 9mm service pistols - sometimes it didn't - the Gold Label SxS. However, they are dead on with a marketing strategy which is to create a product which anyone can afford. They have sold hundreds of .375 Rugers to folks who likely will never use it on dangerous game in Africa, but can afford to own a "big" rifle for fun with hogs, or just to have. The "Hawkeye" series further reduces production costs, but the resulting rifle, particularly the "African" has much of what most would want in a .375. As mentioned above, it is likely an ideal choice for a Alaskan or Canadian guide in grizzly country. In it's plastic mounted form it is very durable and light weight - ideal for a rifle that will be ridden hard, shot very little, and often put away wet. As a result, I clearly think the round is here to stay. All that said, I own three rifles in .375 - all H&H - and I sold the only .375 Ruger I have had within 6 months of the time I bought it. It worked as advertised - just didn't care for it. But I am pretty certain, unlike most of the new generation short rounds, this one is here to stay.

 

[Ernie Shipman]

In my humble opinion, the 2 are virtually identical ballistically. No animal shot will know the difference. The difference, as I see it are the rifles. Most (and I know there are some exceptions) rifles in 375 H&H are about a pound or so heaver than a standard length action. For me, I would rather be shooting this cartridge from a slightly heavier platform. Shooting a 375 Ruger from a standard length & weight rifle sounds too painful. I like shooting my hunting rifles a lot, all year for practice, so to me, the H&H makes sense... Since you are doing a custom build, I would suggest looking into a heavier barrel profile no matter what cartridge you choose to help with recoil.
Good luck & enjoy Africa!

 

[Ryan]

By Race to the Bottom I tend to mean, Ruger push the Ruger American rifle over the 77, Rem the 783 over the 700 etc. Yes they shoot but the quality is lacking. The standard length action is still a short cut. As I said you can not load the heavier bullets or mono metals a to the same performance as you can with a H&H Magnum in a magnum length action. Yep the 375 Ruger is a good cartridge but not as versatile as the H&H case. But because of the cheaper option of shorter actions for the Ruger375 most will over look the draw backs, hell most probably will never want to load the heavier and longer bullets. It is not a rubbish round but not as versatile as the H&H. I don't believe I said the Ruger was a rubbish round just a cheaper one.

The Savage 16 family might have been cheap to produce but they had original engineering go into them they still put quality into them have not seen one that would not shoot.

I believe that if Ruger had of based their 375 and 416 on the Rigby case as Norma did then this would not be such a problem as, with a fatter case you will get just as much powder in although the projectile is sitting deeper in the case than with the H&H case. maybe if Ruger do what Rem did with their 375H&H in the 700. Open the action length up a bit this would over come the performance issue..........oh wait that might increase the cost. Come to think of it my Rem 700 in 375H&H cost less than the Ruger 77 in 375 Ruger

Yep progress is heartless and I participate in it as much as anybody and although I don't like some of it I do know it needs to happen, so I am a bit of a hypocrite

Fair enough.
I'm able to load 270 grain TTSX well and there is data 300 grain but I agree it'd be tight fr anything higher. And I recall faulting the 416 Ruger on that very point when talking to Lon of Superior Ammo about the round shortly before he retired from the USAF and moved down to South Carolina to run the business. I think the Rigby and Remington Mag offer a much better case for the 416 IMO. But this is my hypocrisy since I don't own any 416 and doubt I ever will since I have no need.
Honestly the market for the 375 caliber isn't getting any bigger, even smaller for anything larger. That, more than anything will be the deciding factor on it's survival.

 

[Rule 303]

Fair enough.
I'm able to load 270 grain TTSX well and there is data 300 grain but I agree it'd be tight fr anything higher. And I recall faulting the 416 Ruger on that very point when talking to Lon of Superior Ammo about the round shortly before he retired from the USAF and moved down to South Carolina to run the business. I think the Rigby and Remington Mag offer a much better case for the 416 IMO. But this is my hypocrisy since I don't own any 416 and doubt I ever will since I have no need.
Honestly the market for the 375 caliber isn't getting any bigger, even smaller for anything larger. That, more than anything will be the deciding factor on it's survival.

I agree especially about the market. If I was hunting in Brown bear country or up Alaska way I would probably get a Ruger 416 then have it worked to feed the 338 Norma mag case and neck that up to 416. Should easily get the 2350 fps with a 410 grain Woodleigh with out the pressure of the 416 Ruger. ...................huuuummmm might need a couple of recoil reducers and a muzzle break

 

[Nosler guy]

Showed this thread to my father, he's a real oldtimer (85+, used to gunsmith in the 1950's and 60's) He just laughed, said it was like history repeating itself over and over. When the .308 came out, he said there were piles of firewood and countless urns of coffee, and cases of fine whiskey drank while the hunters of the day bantered about the 30-06 vs the .308. Interesting that the two cartridges both managed to survive and co exist, I imagine the .375 situation will be much the same

Similar situations over time - the .300 H&H was confronted by the .300 Win Mag, I guess we pretty much know what the end result was there. And now that same .300 Win is being challenged by the .300 WSM - an identical argument to the .375, lots of guys on both sides of that debate. Good thing that this stuff keeps popping up to preoccupy our small minds ...

 

[Ryan]

I agree especially about the market. If I was hunting in Brown bear country or up Alaska way I would probably get a Ruger 416 then have it worked to feed the 338 Norma mag case and neck that up to 416. Should easily get the 2350 fps with a 410 grain Woodleigh with out the pressure of the 416 Ruger. ...................huuuummmm might need a couple of recoil reducers and a muzzle break

I do live in Alaska, but I don't hunt brown bears and I'm just fine with the 375 Ruger or a 12 gauge with slugs if anyone wanted me to back them up on a brown bear hunt.
The 416 wildcat sounds interesting, but I'll leave that one to you.

 

[Wolverine67]

I will trade you a .375 H&H Magnum hunting rifle for a good condition 6.5x55 Krag Jorgenson full military stock rifle build in Kongsberg...there will be coming a Norwegian hunter to participate in our Black Powder hunt 1883 era next year, he can bring the rifle with and take your .375 H&H Magnum to you...

Nice offer, but there is three reasons why i have to say no, thank you. First I dont have an original Krag, second, I've bought my 375 and last, the rules about exporting and importing firearms here are rigid.
But again, thank you for the offer.

 

[wesheltonj]

Similar situations over time - the .300 H&H was confronted by the .300 Win Mag, I guess we pretty much know what the end result was there. And now that same .300 Win is being challenged by the .300 WSM - an identical argument to the .375, lots of guys on both sides of that debate. Good thing that this stuff keeps popping up to preoccupy our small minds ...

The difference is: Ruger is NOT Winchester/Western.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

The difference is: Ruger is NOT Winchester/Western.

You are correct: Ruger is a viable, American manufacturer of quality firearms. Winchester survives as a company in name only, went bankrupt and is now manufactured by license to foreign companies.

Regardless, I still would like to own a Super Grade one day.

 

[Rick Cox]

You are correct: Ruger is a viable, American manufacturer of quality firearms. Winchester survives as a company in name only, went bankrupt and is now manufactured by license to foreign companies.

Regardless, I still would like to own a Super Grade one day.

Had a close look at a M70 in 300 WinMag the other day. I thought it was very nicely finished, for the money. I am with you: I want a Super Grade as well.

 

[mdwest]

I own a Win 70 classic stainless in .375 H&H. I absolutely love the rifle.

That said, I would trade it tomorrow for a left handed Ruger Guide Gun or Hawkeye in .375 Ruger.

I picked up the H&H because I got a great deal on it. I was looking for a med bore to take with me to Africa, but didnt want to spend a fortune on a rifle I thought I might hunt with 3-5 times in my life. I would have liked a lefty, but the best deal I found was on the righty winchester.. so thats where I went..

Im not much of a traditionalist when it comes to cartridges.. and I do reload.. so Im not too concerned about the "limited" choices for factory ammunition issue.. I also think its only a matter of time and there will be several other options out there.. give it 12-24 more months and I bet at least a couple of more major manufacturers start loading for it.. the round is growing in popularity..

What attracts me are all of the things previously mentioned by others.. shorter action, lighter weight, shorter OAL, affordable left handed options, etc..

For now the plan is to take the H&H with me to Africa to buff hunt in 2019...

But if at some point between now and then a see a nice .375 ruger in LH available.. I will likely sell the Win 70 and grab the .375 ruger in exchange..

 

[Rick Cox]

I think about building a big game rifle on a Mauser m98. I was thinking about a 375 HH, but then there are the question about case lenght (COAL). Then I was looking into 375 Ruger, which have a shorter and fatter case, designed to fit standard action lenght.
So my question are; do anyone have experience with the Ruger? My intention are up to and buffalo.

Check out the May/June issue of Sports Afield, volume 239, #3: titled "Death of a Legend?" By John Barness. Great article on this very topic. Don't make an assumption based on the title...

 

[ChrisG]

I cannot believe the downright rudeness and arrogance of the response of certain individuals to what should be an interesting dialog. The Ruger is a better cartridge. Period. I own an H and H. No animal on the planet is going to know the difference. My PH in Namibia uses a Ruger.

That's kind of a blanket statement and very matter of fact. I would say both of them have good points. I own an H&H and a .416 Ruger (just a .375 necked up.) The H&H makes a lot of sense for a rifle designed for the utmost in reliability. It is a slender, long, tapered case and has plenty of room for powder while keeping pressures reasonable. Sure, powder, bullet and metallury technology has changed a lot over just the last twenty years but the laws of physics haven't changed. In the end, it will still be easier to insert and extract a long, tapered cylinder from a hole rather than a short, fat, straighter one. The the more the taper, theroetically, the easier it gets. As mentioned above, because of the short OAL of the Ruger case, shooting heavy bullets gets to be a little more challenging because they intrude so much in the case. Shoot the H&H through a CZ or BRNO action and the bullet could almost fall out of the case and you would still have length to spare.

I think the Ruger is a well thought out design and I don't see it going anywhere soon. But it will be a long time, if ever, that is supersedes the H&H. They were designed with two very different mindsets. Sure a short action is theoretically (read mathematically) stiffer. But the practical difference in a hunting rifle is beyond unnoticable. At a 1,000 yard F-Class match, sure. Not at 90 yards on a buff or even 300 yards at plains game. I very much agree with the fact that no animal is ever going to know the difference but stating that it is the "best" is really just an opinion. The Ruger is short, light and hits hard. The H&H is minutely longer, available anywhere in the world, hits just as hard in practicality and gives you an edge in reliabilty which for me is more important that an extra 0.5 MOA or 150 fps. This however, is just MY opinion.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

But if at some point between now and then a see a nice .375 ruger in LH available.. I will likely sell the Win 70 and grab the .375 ruger in exchange..

@mdwest : Several months ago, somebody posted a link to an online gun dealer in Abilene, TX called CDNN Sports. https://www.cdnnsports.com/firearms.html

They have some very good prices on LH Ruger Hawkeyes in 375 Ruger. The African model appears to be the earlier version before Ruger added the threaded muzzle and optional muzzle brake.

 

[mdwest]

Wow! Those are some good prices..

Looks like I'll be listing a Win 70 in H&H shortly! Thanks for the info!