375 H&H vs 300 H&H

I find it very interesting how some folks are calculating MAXIMUM Point Blank Range. I'm looking at someone very hard if they aren't talking about how far the bullet strikes high of point of aim at the short and mid ranges. I calculate three inches high and low for a six inch vital zone.

I once had a trajectory zeroed for a 300 WM that was four inches high at 100yds and this nearly cost me an animal lost. Thankfully it was a horrendous wound that I was able to follow up very quickly and finish.

The best way I feel to proceed is to MPBR to a maximum of +3" and laser range and dial beyond that distance. You have a hunting rifle that can make shots on rapidly appearing game with certainty and you still maintain the ability to reach out further in a precise manner if needed.
 
So what about a 300gr Accubond with high BC? At about 2550fps?
 
Energy basically the same, little bit more, but bullet drop 25-30% more. I know you are not a fan of the light 230gr’s, but with their bc and weight retention they really perform well, energy over 2000lb @450 yards still. And with the piston expantion and LR profile they open up verry well. So for a dedicated gun there is no reason to sacrifice on bullet drop, since you still get the same energy as with a 300gr, and 50gr more bullet as with a 300 magnum
5AC9553E-611D-4493-8873-C4FBA92A0D4D.png
 
Recoil also very mild, I shoot comfortable of the bench, and had a friend hunting kudu and bleshbuck lying flat on his stomach a few weeks back, taking 250-300m shots in Cradock. First time he used the rifle, and shoots a 308 himself.
 
What is the MPBR...

I find it very interesting how some folks are calculating MAXIMUM Point Blank Range. I'm looking at someone very hard if they aren't talking about how far the bullet strikes high of point of aim at the short and mid ranges.

The definition of Maximum Point Blank Range (MPBR) - the word "Maximum" is indeed the heart of the concept - is to indicate the longest distance one can shoot with the trajectory not going higher or lower than a defined "vital area". This is why, I speak of MPBR for a 6" vital area in the context of small PG.

This, by definition, implies a point of impact no higher than 3" and no lower than 3" above or below the point of aim, and is appropriate for small game with ~6" vital areas.

Medium size game can be hunted with a MPBR for a 8" vital area, and large game can be hunted with a MPBR for a 10" or even, conceptually, a 12" vital area.

Evidently, a MPBR for a 8" vital area is longer than a MPBR for a 6" vital area; a MPBR for a 10" vital area is longer than a MPBR for a 8" vital area; etc. but their highest and lowest path above or below point of aim are also 4" and 5" instead of 3".

Contrarily to what many hunters believe, many game animals have a vital area (much) larger than 6" or even 8" or 10". For example, Jack O'Connor's, in his book The Hunting Rifle, defines the vital areas of common game as
--- Pronghorn / small deer / small African antelopes: ~8" to 9"
--- Medium size deer / medium African antelope: ~10" to 11"
--- Large deer / North American wild sheep / mountain goat: ~11" to 14"
--- Elk / large African antelope: ~14" to 16"
--- Moose / Eland: ~18" to 21"

The MPBR was the best method up to the availability of reliable consumer-grade (i.e. widely distributed and widely affordable):
1) chronographs;
2) laser range finders;
3) ballistic software;
4) turrets graduations on scope

The MPBR remains the best method if any of these 4 components is missing.

However, the MPBR is not without issues, the biggest one being that, often, hunters who use MPBR for large vital areas end up missing or crippling at shorter range (100 to 200 yards) by shooting too high.

--- A grand classic is that many forget in the heat of the moment that a MPBR aim applies to a heart shot located between 1/3 and 1/2 up the animal's thorax height. Any higher aim due to animal visibility of position necessitates compensating down for the MPBR high trajectory.

--- Another grand classic is hunters using a 8" or 10" MPBR because they are hunting medium size African antelope (say, Common Reedbuck, Blesbok, etc.), and missing high when they shoot along the way a small animal (say, Duiker, Mountain Reedbok, etc.).

--- Another even grander classic is people shooting over the animal when shooting the MPBR trajectory up or down steep slopes. It is classic in mountain hunting where shots can be taken at as much as 50 or 60 degree of angle to shoot well over the animal with a 8" MPBR when the hunter combines the mistakes in the heat of the moment of 1) forgetting to compensate for the MPBR high trajectory on small animals that only show the top half of their body; and 2) forgetting that a 60 degree, up or down, 300 yard shot is the equivalent to only a 150 yard shot, where the MPBR trajectory will often be close to reaching its highest point.

I am sure many people get everything always right in all circumstances, but, believe you me, I have unintentionally spined enough game I was taking a double lungs/heart shot at, to be fully aware of the intricacies of the MPBR even though I kept using it for 40 years, as the best method until first reliable/affordable laser range finders, then reliable/affordable chronographs, then reliable/affordable ballistic software (think iPhone or equivalent, and tablets) and finally reliable turrets graduations on affordable scopes came long, the last one being - counterintuitively I might add - only very recent (a few years at most) on civilian scopes.

Praise be to the MPBR - yes, "Maximum" defines its concept - but admittedly technology has finally made it obsolete, although like pre-WWI British classic doubles, I expect it to be still used for another century :)

There is peace of mind with a laser range finder that calculates the "ballistic distance" based on visual distance + barometric pressure (i.e. altitude) + angle of the shot + temperature (although temperature, unless truly extreme, is less important); simply turning the turret to that distance; and simply putting the crosshair where the shot needs to go :)

As I said earlier, I am not changing the older scopes (from 1980 Zeiss 1.5-6x42 to various S&B or Swarovski 1990's, 2000's, 2010's, and, for example, I still am very comfortable hunting Moose with a .340 Wby equipped with a scope sighted for a 8" MPBR (+ or - 4" trajectory over or below point of aim from 0 to 340 yards with 225 gf TTSX) because I have no tag to shoot anything else during a Moose hunt. I guess I could us a 10" or even 12" MPBR, but I dare not hutting with of POI (point of impact) + or - 6" from POA (point of aim)...

However, my .375 H&H, .300 Wby and .257 Wby Blaser R8 barrels all have a BDC (bullet drop compensation) turret, and yes, truly, it is simpler, and more reliable, than the MPBR because it takes the trajectory drop out of the hunting equation :giggle:
 
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I've always taken the simple approach. Sight the rifle in at 200 yards, which is somewhere around 1.5"-2" high at 100 yds. Sighted this way, most semi flat shooting calibers such as 7mm Mauser, 308, 30/06 and 375 H&H with 270 gr bullets will be around 8" low at 300 yds. This is easily compensated for by simply holding a bit high at 300 yds. That way you're not worried about shooting too high at normal hunting ranges.
 
Yes indeed, but you are at best guessing on a Vaal Rhebok at 350 yard with a PG caliber, or a Wildebeest at 275 yards with a .375 H&H, and this is my entire point: taking the guessing out of the shooting of smaller / farther PG or MG with PG calibers; or larger / closer PG, with DG calibers :)
 
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Yes indeed, but you are at best guessing on a Vaal Rhebok at 350 yard with a PG caliber, or a Wildebeest at 275 yards with a .375 H&H, and this is my entire point: taking the guessing out of the shooting of smaller / farther PG or MG with PG calibers; or larger / closer PG, with DG calibers :)
The Wildebeest at 275yds is a piece of cake with a 375 H&H and a 200 yd zero. The smaller fellows at 350 yds are a bit of a challenge off the sticks, or from any field postion, no matter the caliber or zero range. (To me).
 
IvW
I have used from Hornady 225gr SP to 300gr Cutting edge long range bullets BC 0.750 in my 375 and out to 1360 yards. I mostly load 3) bullets/weights; 235gr Speer, 270gr Hornady SP and 300gr RN hornady that is obsolete and their 300gr DGS & DGX. The most accurate is the obsolete 300gr RN.
The 225gr are obsolete also but worked great. The 235gr speer have a BC of 0.317, if I recall correctly, and run 3000 fps. I would use that on plains game but no thick skinned or DG. 300 yards or meters in a walk unless your particular rifle doesn't like them.
P.S. my 375 is a wildcat but duplicates an H&H. The oal is 3.340 so will fit in a standard action.
 
Hi lvW,

I like the Accubond 300 gr at 2550 f/s for long range. Also the Sierra and the Hornady 300 gr boat tail.
Bullet trajectory and terminal effects more than enough for what you are looking for.
But I would select the one I have used for that: Nosler Accubond 260 and Barnes TTSX 250 gr at 2800/2850 f/s or one I have not used: Barnes LRX 270 gr at 2700 f/s.

Best!

CF
 
So what about a 300gr Accubond with high BC? At about 2550fps?
I like it on paper. Presuming a 1.5" sight height and 2550 at the muzzle and a six inch vital zone for bullet path of +/-3" zero at 210 yards for MPBR of 248 yards. At 300 yards you are -8.6". At 325 -12 and at 350 -16 from there add about -6 per 25 yards to 500.
 
I like it on paper. Presuming a 1.5" sight height and 2550 at the muzzle and a six inch vital zone for bullet path of +/-3" zero at 210 yards for MPBR of 248 yards. At 300 yards you are -8.6". At 325 -12 and at 350 -16 from there add about -6 per 25 yards to 500.
That sounds very do able, thanks. so what would the 100 sight above zero be? 3"?
 
What is the MPBR...



The definition of Maximum Point Blank Range (MPBR) - the word "Maximum" is indeed the heart of the concept - is to indicate the longest distance one can shoot with the trajectory not going higher or lower than a defined "vital area". This is why, I speak of MPBR for a 6" vital area in the context of small PG.

This, by definition, implies a point of impact no higher than 3" and no lower than 3" above or below the point of aim, and is appropriate for small game with ~6" vital areas.

Medium size game can be hunted with a MPBR for a 8" vital area, and large game can be hunted with a MPBR for a 10" or even, conceptually, a 12" vital area.

Evidently, a MPBR for a 8" vital area is longer than a MPBR for a 6" vital area; a MPBR for a 10" vital area is longer than a MPBR for a 8" vital area; etc. but their highest and lowest path above or below point of aim are also 4" and 5" instead of 3".

Contrarily to what many hunters believe, many game animals have a vital area (much) larger than 6" or even 8" or 10". For example, Jack O'Connor's, in his book The Hunting Rifle, defines the vital areas of common game as
--- Pronghorn / small deer / small African antelopes: ~8" to 9"
--- Medium size deer / medium African antelope: ~10" to 11"
--- Large deer / North American wild sheep / mountain goat: ~11" to 14"
--- Elk / large African antelope: ~14" to 16"
--- Moose / Eland: ~18" to 21"

The MPBR was the best method up to the availability of reliable consumer-grade (i.e. widely distributed and widely affordable):
1) chronographs;
2) laser range finders;
3) ballistic software;
4) turrets graduations on scope

The MPBR remains the best method if any of these 4 components is missing.

However, the MPBR is not without issues, the biggest one being that, often, hunters who use MPBR for large vital areas end up missing or crippling at shorter range (100 to 200 yards) by shooting too high.

--- A grand classic is that many forget in the heat of the moment that a MPBR aim applies to a heart shot located between 1/3 and 1/2 up the animal's thorax height. Any higher aim due to animal visibility of position necessitates compensating down for the MPBR high trajectory.

--- Another grand classic is hunters using a 8" or 10" MPBR because they are hunting medium size African antelope (say, Common Reedbuck, Blesbok, etc.), and missing high when they shoot along the way a small animal (say, Duiker, Mountain Reedbok, etc.).

--- Another even grander classic is people shooting over the animal when shooting the MPBR trajectory up or down steep slopes. It is classic in mountain hunting where shots can be taken at as much as 50 or 60 degree of angle to shoot well over the animal with a 8" MPBR when the hunter combines the mistakes in the heat of the moment of 1) forgetting to compensate for the MPBR high trajectory on small animals that only show the top half of their body; and 2) forgetting that a 60 degree, up or down, 300 yard shot is the equivalent to only a 150 yard shot, where the MPBR trajectory will often be close to reaching its highest point.

I am sure many people get everything always right in all circumstances, but, believe you me, I have unintentionally spined enough game I was taking a double lungs/heart shot at, to be fully aware of the intricacies of the MPBR even though I kept using it for 40 years, as the best method until first reliable/affordable laser range finders, then reliable/affordable chronographs, then reliable/affordable ballistic software (think iPhone or equivalent, and tablets) and finally reliable turrets graduations on affordable scopes came long, the last one being - counterintuitively I might add - only very recent (a few years at most) on civilian scopes.

Praise be to the MPBR - yes, "Maximum" defines its concept - but admittedly technology has finally made it obsolete, although like pre-WWI British classic doubles, I expect it to be still used for another century :)

There is peace of mind with a laser range finder that calculates the "ballistic distance" based on visual distance + barometric pressure (i.e. altitude) + angle of the shot + temperature (although temperature, unless truly extreme, is less important); simply turning the turret to that distance; and simply putting the crosshair where the shot needs to go :)

As I said earlier, I am not changing the older scopes (from 1980 Zeiss 1.5-6x42 to various S&B or Swarovski 1990's, 2000's, 2010's, and, for example, I still am very comfortable hunting Moose with a .340 Wby equipped with a scope sighted for a 8" MPBR (+ or - 4" trajectory over or below point of aim from 0 to 340 yards with 225 gf TTSX) because I have no tag to shoot anything else during a Moose hunt. I guess I could us a 10" or even 12" MPBR, but I dare not hutting with of POI (point of impact) + or - 6" from POA (point of aim)...

However, my .375 H&H, .300 Wby and .257 Wby Blaser R8 barrels all have a BDC (bullet drop compensation) turret, and yes, truly, it is simpler, and more reliable, than the MPBR because it takes the trajectory drop out of the hunting equation :giggle:
Thank you for your approach to answering questions and discussing issues. It is amazing. If you had been my sceince teacher in high school I might have enjoyed the subjects. You are truly a fine teacher. Thank you. Your friend, Brian
 
If I was in your shoes this is what I would do 250gr Kriek bullets locally available alsmot like a TSX.
Put a nice piece of glass on the rifle with holdover or mildots and learn them.

With that a 500 meter gong should not be an issue. With animals I would keep it to max 400 meters for the bullet to open up.

So you would end up with 2 x 375's but using two different powders one to handle the 340gr bullet and the other for the 250gr bullet running it faster.
 
I sight in like Toby does. It’s easier for me to hold over at longer ranges, than to think about holding under at close range.
Amen! It's also hard for me to tell distance accurately though a 6x on a jump shot so I'd rather be holding on and not under.
IvW
I have used from Hornady 225gr SP to 300gr Cutting edge long range bullets BC 0.750 in my 375 and out to 1360 yards. I mostly load 3) bullets/weights; 235gr Speer, 270gr Hornady SP and 300gr RN hornady that is obsolete and their 300gr DGS & DGX. The most accurate is the obsolete 300gr RN.
The 225gr are obsolete also but worked great. The 235gr speer have a BC of 0.317, if I recall correctly, and run 3000 fps. I would use that on plains game but no thick skinned or DG. 300 yards or meters in a walk unless your particular rifle doesn't like them.
P.S. my 375 is a wildcat but duplicates an H&H. The oal is 3.340 so will fit in a standard action.
Do the cutting edge LR bullets expand out of a a .375 H&H? There is a review on their website that said at 180 yards and 2300 fps the bullet did not expand to secondary wound channels and left one channel with a passthrough and minimal meat damage. Of course the hunter was posing with the dead bear so there's that.
 
JBM Ballistics is a good online calculator. Their Trajectory (Simplified) program is plenty.
 
Amen! It's also hard for me to tell distance accurately though a 6x on a jump shot so I'd rather be holding on and not under.

Do the cutting edge LR bullets expand out of a a .375 H&H? There is a review on their website that said at 180 yards and 2300 fps the bullet did not expand to secondary wound channels and left one channel with a passthrough and minimal meat damage. Of course the hunter was posing with the dead bear so there's that.
They list the CE MTH L08 as Match/TAC/Hunt. I've only shot steel or paper with them so have no experience with them on flesh and bone. They have a very small drilled hole in the nose so not sure if that qualifies as a functional hollow point.
I could not resist giving them a try at a 1360 yard steel target with a 3X Weaver from the 1960's.
I've ran the 235 grain Speer and 300gr RN down at 500 yards on steel. Yes, it is fun to shoot prone.
 

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