375 H&H Heavy Bullets vs 416

[Red Leg]

Yes. Pretty much what I did last year. A 375 H&H with 300 grain A Frames for plains game. And 416 RM with 400 grain A Frames as well for Buffalo. All worked out very well. But this year, with Buffalo not in mix, my largest animal (larger than buffalo) will be an Eland to go along with the lioness. Among other PG such as Water Buck, Oryx and Wildebeest. I feel the 375 is almost a no brainer on this one. Especially since the 416 Ruger is new to me, and the Sako 85 Kodiak has made it's mark in Australia, and now I think it's time to take it to Africa.

Or just use a quality 300 gr .375 for everything! Never performed anything but brilliantly for me.

 

[John Camp]

replicate the last charge at Roark's drift from the movie Zulu

Careful. You might get the last charge at Isandlwana from the movie Zulu Dawn instead.

 

[Head Trauma]

Saeed Al Maktoum, goes on safari in the Selous every year.

The rifle he takes every year is a Dakota 76 chambered in a 375/404 wildcat of his own design ( think 375 Ultra Mag )
25" or so #6 stainless fluted barrel, has a twin rifle of very similar configuration. He built both rifles himself.
Both rifles have been heavily used, most of the paint is gone from the stocks, they get dropped frequently
when they have the shooting competition for the staff at the end of the hunt, years of hard use.

I built a copy of the rifle

He told me he does not think there is any difference between his rifle and a 375 H&H with regard to effectiveness
on DG and plains game

The only bullet he uses he makes himself, a 375 "Walterhog" 300 gr mono, think 300 tsx with a boat tail

He now loads this bullet to about 2750 fps. He and his hunting companions, over the years, have taken many
buffalo (as well as other game) with this bullet/ rifle combination. Most of the buffalo are one shot kills.


Lots of folks have differing experiences on this topic and use what they feel is best for them, YMMV.

 

[Dr Ray]

The .416 has about 1/4 more frontal area than the .375. This is not an insignificant amount, but it seems to me that if you are selecting two rifles for a trip into DG country that you might want to select a cartridge on the larger size that has a greater advantage: 375 & 458 about 1/2 greater frontal area; 375 & .470 nearly 60% increase. It just seems to me that the 375 & the 416 are so much alike that you might want more variety.

Good point

 

[TOBY458]

Now that I'm hunting Cape Buffalo along with the other species mentioned when this thread started, my decision is even harder. Not to mention, I now have a 9.3x62 and 458 Lott to muddy the waters even more.
I will revert to @IvW

 

[John Camp]

Now that I'm hunting Cape Buffalo along with the other species mentioned when this thread started, my decision is even harder. Not to mention, I now have a 9.3x62 and 458 Lott to muddy the waters even more.
I will revert to @IvW

I know this is a struggle but I am confident you will find your way. Perhaps the AH community could take up an offering and relieve you of at least some of this burden.

 

[rookhawk]

Now that I'm hunting Cape Buffalo along with the other species mentioned when this thread started, my decision is even harder. Not to mention, I now have a 9.3x62 and 458 Lott to muddy the waters even more.
I will revert to @IvW

The thing about .375 that you only know by experience, is that it does not strike a buffalo like Thor's Hammer. If you're used to that non-dangerous game reaction to a typical rifle with a good shot, you aren't going to see that with buffalo and a 375/9.3. The notion of it running 20 yards and tipping over are misplaced.

A 375 on buffalo is like a 243 on elk. A good bullet, a good shot, the elk will die...after a 100-150 yard walk and then bedding down to die over 3-5 minutes or more.

A 375 won't turn a charge.

If you want to hunt buffalo a lot, as has been pointed out 470s and 404s and 450/400s and 500s and 505s and 416s and 458s are the tools of the trade. For a multi-species hunt where you want flat shooting to take medium sized game as well, the flattest of the above is surely the .416.

 

[John Camp]

"where you want flat shooting to take medium sized game as well, the flattest of the above is surely the .416."
Coincidence? You be the judge.

 

[TOBY458]

After some shooting at my range today, and some careful consideration, I've decided to take a 375 H&H, along with my 416 Rem Mag for my upcoming hunt. I will again take 400 gr Swifts in my 416 for buffalo. For the 375 I will take a combo of 300 grain Swifts or TSX for Buffalo/Eland, and perhaps a softer bullet for Lioness and other plains game. That way, no matter which gun I have in my hand, I'm ready for Buffalo or anything else that may come along.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Maybe , l can share some light on this from my personal experience. The only rifle l own ( though l have fired and tried many ) is a Vintage Winchester Model 70 in .375 Holland and Holland Magnum . It's a pre war model which my great grand dad got before the second world war . He passed it on to my Granddad , who gifted it to me . I have used the .375 to hunt EVERY FOUR LEGGED critter here in the states , including a couple of pretty huge brown bears. It never let me down . I didn't have the good fortune to take it to Africa yet , but l plan to use it next year for my African Safari and hope to take an ele or a buff with it and some plains game too. My Granddad however , DID go on a Safari to Kenya in '67 or 68 and used this .375 Winchester to take a Standing Bull Elephant with a shoulder shot . Quoting him " The .375 did good on standing elephant . But if l had to deal with a charging animal , I'd probably want a .458 " ( The .416 Rem Mag didn't exist back then ) .
For a client Hunter , l think .375 would suffice. Since you have a heavier armed PH to sort things out if the animal charges .

 

[TOBY458]

Now that I have an R8 and am considering another receiver/barrel combo in 416 Rem Mag, this thread is relevant to me once again. Stay with the light, handy 375 configuration and call it a day? Or step up to a Semiweight receiver and kickstop, with a J Sip 416 Rem Mag Semiweight barrel? Should also make a pretty handy combo with more punch for buffalo and elephant.

 

[rookhawk]

Now that I have an R8 and am considering another receiver/barrel combo in 416 Rem Mag, this thread is relevant to me once again. Stay with the light, handy 375 configuration and call it a day? Or step up to a Semiweight receiver and kickstop, with a J Sip 416 Rem Mag Semiweight barrel? Should also make a pretty handy combo with more punch for buffalo and elephant.

toby, if you haven’t read Pondoro Taylor’s African Rifles and Sporting Cartridges you’d enjoy it.

A couple of things, the 375 is a brain-only elephant round. If you miss the brain, you just spent ten or twenty grand and will never recover that elephant. A 416 or better can be a body shot gun. That’s an important difference.

Honestly, I’d rather you get a more common cartridge than a 416 remington, they don’t exist in Africa if you lose your ammo. They were made to put a 416 Rigby clone into a standard US deer rifle action. If you can get a 416 rigby, 404 Jeffery, or 458 win/lott, you’d be better off in my opinion.

but yes, a 40 cal hole is a big step up on DG from a 375 and you should have one for elephant.

 

[TOBY458]

toby, if you haven’t read Pondoro Taylor’s African Rifles and Sporting Cartridges you’d enjoy it.

A couple of things, the 375 is a brain-only elephant round. If you miss the brain, you just spent ten or twenty grand and will never recover that elephant. A 416 or better can be a body shot gun. That’s an important difference.

Honestly, I’d rather you get a more common cartridge than a 416 remington, they don’t exist in Africa if you lose your ammo. They were made to put a 416 Rigby clone into a standard US deer rifle action. If you can get a 416 rigby, 404 Jeffery, or 458 win/lott, you’d be better off in my opinion.

but yes, a 40 cal hole is a big step up on DG from a 375 and you should have one for elephant.

No 416 Rigby available in an R8. Just 416 Rem Mag. If I have to bring two rifles, it kind of defeats the purpose of having an R8. But I do agree the 416 would be a big step in the right direction for elephant. And on the other hand, once you step up to 458 Lott, you have to step up to the big, heavy safari contour barrels, and I detest heavy rifles. Especially when many miles of walking is involved.

 

[Ray B]

I detest heavy rifles. Especially when many miles of walking is involved.

Simple solution : take me along as gun bearer.

 

[TOBY458]

Simple solution : take me along as gun bearer.

Now that's a fine offer! When shall WE book OUR hunt? Hahaha!

 

[rookhawk]

No 416 Rigby available in an R8. Just 416 Rem Mag. If I have to bring two rifles, it kind of defeats the purpose of having an R8. But I do agree the 416 would be a big step in the right direction for elephant. And on the other hand, once you step up to 458 Lott, you have to step up to the big, heavy safari contour barrels, and I detest heavy rifles. Especially when many miles of walking is involved.

Toby, I know you love the R8 but the one feature that I don't like is the swapping calibers. You break it, you lose a part, both calibers are non-functional. That said, a single caliber r8 sounds great. Getting a bigger rifle is a good idea too. I wouldn't be caught dead in africa with a single rifle anyway. Just my take.

 

[Ray B]

I wouldn't be caught dead in africa with a single rifle

In Africa and having one rifle that malfunctions it is possible to be caught dead.

 

[Tanks]

Saeed Al Maktoum, goes on safari in the Selous every year.

The rifle he takes every year is a Dakota 76 chambered in a 375/404 wildcat of his own design ( think 375 Ultra Mag )
25" or so #6 stainless fluted barrel, has a twin rifle of very similar configuration.

...

The only bullet he uses he makes himself, a 375 "Walterhog" 300 gr mono, think 300 tsx with a boat tail

He now loads this bullet to about 2750 fps. He and his hunting companions, over the years, have taken many
buffalo (as well as other game) with this bullet/ rifle combination. Most of the buffalo are one shot kills.
...

If someone is interested in this, no need to go the wildcat route. Just get a .375 RUM as mentioned above, exact same ballistics.

 

[rookhawk]

Don’t forget, all anecdotes and written history suggest there is something important about 40 caliber and up for dangerous game. Particularly body shots. No matter how much Roy Weatherby you throw at a 375HH, even making a 375HH/460WB wildcat going at infinity speeds, it is still going to make a hole the size of 375 + expansion. Once your‘re in 416 and bigger bullets, the expanded holes create quick blood loss.

I love my 375hh and I’m not saying it isn’t the most versatile safari caliber ever made, it is. What I’m saying is that you cannot compare a 375 to anything bigger. Anything bigger is better for body shots on dangerous game. Anything bigger is better, but not more versatile. We get confused between superiority and versatility sometimes.

 

[Tanks]

...

I love my 375hh and I’m not saying it isn’t the most versatile safari caliber ever made, it is. What I’m saying is that you cannot compare a 375 to anything bigger. Anything bigger is better for body shots on dangerous game. Anything bigger is better, but not more versatile. We get confused between superiority and versatility sometimes.

Exactly. I have 150 rounds of 300 grain TSX loaded for my .375 H&H at 2,550fps all ready for a Safari. Then, when the Safari time comes I leave it behind and take two other rifles in bigger calibers. Caliber matters, and despite what bunch of people here think a good shot with a .375 does not turn into a Barney Fife with a larger caliber.