375 H&H Heavy Bullets vs 416

[colorado]

Well I'm taking my 500 Jeffery elk hunting this year, so I can't really comment about too much gun lol. Just a cow meat hunt but is always fun and we eat elk burgers all year. Yummy and healthy.

 

[PLM]

Something to try... I had pan sausage made with elk and pork together. Instead of making just small patties for breakfast, I made hamburger patties out of the sausage and cooked them over an open fire. The friends coming over to dinner thought they were having regular hamburgers. They were all surprised and said they were the best burgers they had ever eaten.. Damn, I need some more elk!!

 

[colorado]

Will definitely try it. Been a few years since I've hunted black bears with my boys in New Mexico. Miss it bad. Will get out this year. Like to take the 500 to Alaska for a true Kodiak bear hunt with Scott Mileur one of these years

 

[Pondoro]

Do we really need the .400s anymore..considering how the .375s perform with all these wonderful modern bullets..??

I always bring my .375 and something .470/.475 or .500...

 

[Ray B]

Do we really need the .400s anymore..considering how the .375s perform with all these wonderful modern bullets..??

I always bring my .375 and something .470/.475 or .500...

People could probably get by with just the 375 and the well developed bullets presently available for it but then in the 1800s people got by with travel my horse back, buggy or train and figured that was about as good as it was going to get. Keep in mind that the developments in bullets have not been restricted to the 375, but are also available in virtually all the other calibers.

 

[Neil Molendyk]

On our trip to Makuya and Limpopo last summer on a Buf hunt and plains game hunt we went with a 416 Rigby bolt action and a 375 H&H in Ruger No 1 with the thought that one could substitute for the other in the event of rifle problems. Fortunately none occurred but it didn't cost anymore to bring two along. And as an observation, the 416 definitely hit the animals harder.

 

[Von S.]

Bigger, better, faster, stronger, the more guns the better.

After all, God did not make guns so that they be left at home.

And by the way, should you find the need for a shot of instant courage just sing or hum, " Men of Harlech" from the movie Zulu!

" Men of Harlech stop your dreaming, Can't you see their spear points gleaming,See their warrior pennants streaming on this battle field"

That'll get your blood up!

 

[BeeMaa]

Bigger, better, faster, stronger, the more guns the better.

Like the "Steve Austin" of the firearm world...The Six Million Dollar Man.

 

[Eric Anderson]

Personally, I just like the amazing penetration of the .375 bullets. Only done one Cape buffalo hunt, so that is how much my opinion is worth. As far as plains game, I have never felt undergunned with a 30-06.
A lot of it is what do you have confidence in.

 

[Von S.]

Will definitely try it. Been a few years since I've hunted black bears with my boys in New Mexico. Miss it bad. Will get out this year. Like to take the 500 to Alaska for a true Kodiak bear hunt with Scott Mileur one of these years

And when " Oso the Horrible " steps out and declares his intention of turning your head into a baby rattle for his cubs and you let one of those dogs off the chain directed dead center of his chest and in a split micro skinny second he looses all desire of Ill intention directed at you as 20 pounds goo that used to heart, lungs and spine gets ejected out of the exit hole it is then and only then that those who don't have one in their hands will forever wish they did.

It's what God carries!

 

[Newboomer]

I've been doing some thinking, since I returned from Africa on my recent Cape Buffalo, and plains game hunt. I shot 7 animals with my 375 H&H Kimber Talkeetna and Swift A Frame bullets, and a Cape Buffalo with my Winchester 416 Rem mag., with the same Swift bullets. All were clean kills and bullet performance was excellent.
I also went to Austalia in 2015 and killed 3 Water Buffalo bulls with my 375 H&H Sako Kodiak, with Barnes TSX 300gr bullets. All were clean kills as well. None of the bulls ran out of sight before falling over. (I still kept pouring the lead to them).
So, that being said, I wonder how much more effective is a 416 really over a 375 with heavy bullets and or Barnes bullets?
Do I REALLY need to take 2 rifles next time???

Toby458,
I took only my Win. 70 375HH to Africa last year and was very successful. I got my old dugga boy with one shot with Barnes 350 g TSX ahead of 53.2 g of 4064 at about 50 yards. It was a head on shot through the heart and jumped his front end about a foot off the ground. He turned 90 degrees, ran about 75 yards and we found him stone dead. I asked the skinners to recover the slug, but they couldn't find it. The outfitter reckoned it went clear through the buf. Tore things up inside pretty good. Heart, lungs, and guts were quite demolished.

I switched to Barnes 235 TSX ahead of 43 g of 4064 for sable, hartebeest and springbok after that and all were one shot kills at ranges from 150 to 300 yards. That hunt made a believer out of me as far as the 375HH goes. With the right bullet it is most effective.

I talked with Craig Boddington at the SCI convention last year and asked him if he could have only two calibers to hunt everything on the planet what would he choose. Without any hesitation, he said 375HH and 3oo Win Mag. I guess that speaks well for the 375HH. That and my experience convinced me.

 

[rookhawk]

My surprise about the .375 on buffalo is that it was NOT like Thor’s hammer hitting him. I needed to anchor immediately as it was getting dark and I needed to turn a charge too. Even when down on the ground it took 7-8 shots to stop the death bellows.

At noon with the animal running away, a .375 and some time to stiffen is probably fine.

For everything else there is the .416. Comparisons of the two are not that alike but here’s a better one: a 375 body shot on a Buffalo is like a 416 body shot on an elephant, just the minimum you need.

Heavy grain 375 bullets are not a proxy for a 416. Just my opinion.

 

[Newboomer]

My surprise about the .375 on buffalo is that it was NOT like Thor’s hammer hitting him. I needed to anchor immediately as it was getting dark and I needed to turn a charge too. Even when down on the ground it took 7-8 shots to stop the death bellows.

At noon with the animal running away, a .375 and some time to stiffen is probably fine.

For everything else there is the .416. Comparisons of the two are not that alike but here’s a better one: a 375 body shot on a Buffalo is like a 416 body shot on an elephant, just the minimum you need.

Heavy grain 375 bullets are not a proxy for a 416. Just my opinion.

Kind of got my attention, too. With all the stories I've heard and read I figured I was taking a chance but I had 2 big guns backing me up. Not familiar with the 416 but comparing stats there doesn't seem to be a great difference in performance. I guess it depends a lot on the bullet and load.

 

[colorado]

Personally, I just like the amazing penetration of the .375 bullets. Only done one Cape buffalo hunt, so that is how much my opinion is worth. As far as plains game, I have never felt undergunned with a 30-06.
A lot of it is what do you have confidence in.

We have a an XCR II in 375 Weatherby. We usually shoot Rem Premier 300g A-Frame factory ammo through it got two bears and an elk with it. Recoil is pretty mild with that ammo. I have been loading the Woodleigh 350g HD RN bullets in it to 2550 fps. Recoil is a bit more snappy but I'm sure they're hell on wheels for hunting. Maybe we'll take it deer hunting this year.

 

[rookhawk]

For perspective, a .416 is 20% more energy than a 375 when shooting a bullet 20-25% heavier with a 10% better BC on average. Average of 37lbs of recoil on a 375HH versus 58lbs of recoil on an average 416 Rigby...tradeoffs!

 

[Waterbuck2008]

Agree 100% with rookhawks facts, but I'd add .375 vs. .416 comes down to shooter comfort with the rifle. Neither will fail with modern bullets placed right. I wouldn't bank on an amazing thud on a buff with either, based on my limited experiences. You need to roll up to a 458 to see a big animal take a real slapdown, IMO.

 

[Von S.]

Yes!

That 375 most certainly may be the most popular round used in Africa for larger and dangerous game, but it is hardly what anyone should say is optimal to save your skin IN A close encounter with stuff that wants to kill you.

" Newboomer " shoot a cape at 50 yards and it runs 75 yards and is dead. So what can be derived from this?

To me it says that he took out the heart along with other things...good shooting Tex!

But it also says to me that if the cape wanted to it had enough left after a solid hit to run good old Boomer over.

Not his fault by along shot as he did right, the round just was a little weak.

Could have the same thing have happen if he had a 460 and took the same exact shot? I doubt it as the cape would have been hit with twice the energy, but anything is possible.

The only shot that works on all animals every time without fail is when his brains are blown out and then whatever round you use simply doesn't matter.

 

[rookhawk]

Two questions:

What does it take to usually kill a buffalo? .338 or bigger with a good hit to the vitals and a quality soft bullet with a good jacket.

What does it take to TURN a Buffalo that is coming towards you? In the vitals, a hydrostatic solid that is pretty powerful. .416 or bigger.

With a PH backing you, a .375 is fine and it certainly is the only safari DG caliber that has any use in North America. (Meaning you get to use it more often in a lifetime). However, if you want to be personally accountable for your own safety in Africa on buffalo or elephant, the bigger calibers are advisable. .416, .404, 458, 450-400, and 470 being the most “tolerable” recoil of the large bore options available with emphasis on the .404/.416/.450 being the best balance of suitability and recoil for Buffalo.

*this info based not on my modest personal experiences, but on the combined info of Taylor, Rourke, Boddington, Keith, et. all.

 

[Ray B]

a .375 is fine and it certainly is the only safari DG caliber that has any use in North America..

Several cartridges have "use" in North America, among them the 404 Jeffery and 458 Win Mag. Other cartridges have trajectory advantages, but for those situations where the environment limits shots to less than 200 yards they work quite well.

 

[Von S.]

Two questions:

What does it take to usually kill a buffalo? .338 or bigger with a good hit to the vitals and a quality soft bullet with a good jacket.

What does it take to TURN a Buffalo that is coming towards you? In the vitals, a hydrostatic solid that is pretty powerful. .416 or bigger.

With a PH backing you, a .375 is fine and it certainly is the only safari DG caliber that has any use in North America. (Meaning you get to use it more often in a lifetime). However, if you want to be personally accountable for your own safety in Africa on buffalo or elephant, the bigger calibers are advisable. .416, .404, 458, 450-400, and 470 being the most “tolerable” recoil of the large bore options available with emphasis on the .404/.416/.450 being the best balance of suitability and recoil for Buffalo.

*this info based not on my modest personal experiences, but on the combined info of Taylor, Rourke, Boddington, Keith, et. all.[/QUcape

A 338?...Why not something even smaller and slower as well then?

Seriously! Why not?

Back before I was even shaving it was almost a sin to head shoot a deer, but when my uncle gave me n old ,25-20 Winchester lever gun and 10 box's of bullets it only made sense to bang everything in the bean with it.

I have heard so many people say just how tough it is to kill a cape ,many of which have never even seen one,but yet they know.

In reality there are 2 things that prohibits the quick death of a cape. Hitting him wrong or not using enough power and bullet even when hitting him right.

The " boiler room," on a cape is the size of a trash can lid and there are many who believe, or is it "magic thinking", that they only need to hit anywhere in that mystical region to drop them. Some will even mention that should they or their diminutive round fail to cause a quick death that there is always the " pH " there to finish what they have started which to me kinda turns pH to mean "Personal Hitman" .

As for me I kinda tip my hat to a guy who stands there with his 375 wailing away as an animal is coming after him and not tucking tail and running.