375 H&H Heavy Bullets vs 416

[Newboomer]

I hear what you guys are saying and I guess I was really lucky or as the old saying goes "Ignorance is bliss." Having never hunted DG before and on the advice of my outfitter I went with my 375 and a heavy load. Worked fine---this time. I got my dugga boy and will probably not hunt DG again. That is until I get the bug again. Thanks for the insight.

 

[rookhawk]

It's no different than the thousands of happy users of blackpowder express double rifles for dangerous game safaris a century ago. Everyone was happy that was successful. Everyone that wasn't happy died and never told their tale. In modern situations, we now have safety protocols, PHs with stopping rifles, and better guns with better bullets. We now have more data to triumph over anecdotes. The .375 is the legal minimum because its the legal minimum that works well most of the time on a rested animal that flees after a first proper shot on DG. That isn't the round that has the stopping power to turn a charge, otherwise PHs would all carry 375s which of course they do not. A .416 is the minimum a PH is likely to use, but more often a .458, 470, or 500.

 

[Von S.]

I hear what you guys are saying and I guess I was really lucky or as the old saying goes "Ignorance is bliss." Having never hunted DG before and on the advice of my outfitter I went with my 375 and a heavy load. Worked fine---this time. I got my dugga boy and will probably not hunt DG again. That is until I get the bug again. Thanks for the insight.

Not at all boomer,you did right famously. A lot of people have various reasons for telling others to go with the 375. I have quite a few and won't trash talk the round. I just believe that a person would be better served with something bigger.

 

[Newboomer]

Hmmm. If I get the dg bug again I just might have to look into a 416 for a little added insurance. I'm not overly thrilled with bare minimums. I like a wee cushion to ease the mind and even the odds just a bit. Chances are my luck won't hold for a second go round.

 

[sgt_zim]

Anything under .600 Nitro Express is for old women and small children....at least that is what Mark Sullivan told me when I met him a few years back at a show and told him I was booked for an ele/buff hunt with a .375.

I've seen him in a couple videos. He's annoying.

 

[WAB]

I've seen him in a couple videos. He's annoying.

Not to mention unethical.

 

[Von S.]

Hummmmmm...

" Unethical ", not morally correct.

All kinds of people think that they have a lock on morality.

I think that it's " not morally correct" to even think about going hunting and not have the ability to hit 3 six inch targets off hand at 100 yards or take a shot at an animal at a distance that the shooter had never practiced at. Or take hero shots with an animal that the PH really killed.

Some people say that it is unethical to shoot an animal at a distance that THEY couldn't hit a barn at , let alone it's door. But there really are guys out there who can hit targets less than 10 inches at a 1000 yards with heavy supersonic projectiles at will.

This Mark Sullivan guy appears to be pretty fearless and in my book he should get some points for that. Plus! He doesn't go all snowflake and have furrows worn into his cheeks by the waterfall coming out of his tear squirters about how the bad rifle kicked him too much

I have listened to him talk and in a way he kinds reminds me of a pro wrassler with a gun.

 

[Ray B]

" Unethical ", not morally correct.
Some people say that it is unethical to shoot an animal

Ethical behavior is a category in the Behavior of Humans Continuum. There are two basic headings: Ethical & its mate Unethical, and Lawful & Unlawful. At one end there is Ethical at the opposite end is Unlawful. In between activities can be a mix, but generally a behavior that starts out as ethical and lawful can progress away from ethical into unethical, then when enough people see it as unethical they band together and process the activity into unlawful. the process can also go in reverse where activities that were once Unlawful have gained public acceptance and while not yet Ethical have at least become Lawful. This progression is not limited to the hunting community but to people in general. It is not only the process of banning hunting in certain countries or it's cousin banning importation of certain animal parts (the idea being to stop the hunting of those animals), it also is at work in such activities as smoking tobacco (moving from ethical to unlawful) and marijuana (unlawful to lawful).

Human interaction with behavior devolves into blame for various results. In the early days of the American frontier a lot of people moved from the East to the West. These people were seeking to find treasure or start a ranch or farm. None of these activities produced any food in the short run- There was an abundant supply of game animals from deer and elk to buffalo. These animals were a significant part of the diet of the indigenous people. An employment opportunity became apparent, the Market Hunter. He provided food for the new population and assisted the government in the process of eliminating those that may contest the taking of land previously enjoyed by others. So to one sector of the population the market hunter was a hero to another he was evil. as it turned out those that saw him as a hero prevailed. About the time that the wild game populations were reduced to non-productive levels the production from farms and ranches increased to marketable levels to supply the food needs not only of those local but also a surplus for export. So the market hunter as a profession became extinct. Then people began to seek welfare of the various animals previously seen only as a food source and the Conservation Movement started. various agencies and non-government organizations were started for the benefit of the animals. Needing someone to blame for the previous decline in animals, they found the Market Hunter as the primary suspect. So the same behavior, hunting animals for food, went from being highly favorable to unethical to highly regulated to unlawful in some areas; the market hunter went from hero to villain.

So when viewing some activity and claiming it to be unethical, keep in mind that the subjective value of a behavior is fluid and what might be seen as ethical/unethical today may be viewed entirely opposite next year.

 

[Von S.]

All right Squire Ray.

That was nice what you wrote.

As for me I got my definition from the computer.

Some people see Sullivan as some sort of draw to anti hunters like a dead hog in the field is to flys. I see that SCI may feel that it is best to distance themselves from a " ruffian" like Sullivan, I'm pretty sure he'd be a hoot to hunt with.

I live for a good laugh!

 

[WAB]

Hummmmmm...

" Unethical ", not morally correct.

All kinds of people think that they have a lock on morality.

I think that it's " not morally correct" to even think about going hunting and not have the ability to hit 3 six inch targets off hand at 100 yards or take a shot at an animal at a distance that the shooter had never practiced at. Or take hero shots with an animal that the PH really killed.

Some people say that it is unethical to shoot an animal at a distance that THEY couldn't hit a barn at , let alone it's door. But there really are guys out there who can hit targets less than 10 inches at a 1000 yards with heavy supersonic projectiles at will.

This Mark Sullivan guy appears to be pretty fearless and in my book he should get some points for that. Plus! He doesn't go all snowflake and have furrows worn into his cheeks by the waterfall coming out of his tear squirters about how the bad rifle kicked him too much

I have listened to him talk and in a way he kinds reminds me of a pro wrassler with a gun.

 

[WAB]

Hummmmmm...

" Unethical ", not morally correct.

All kinds of people think that they have a lock on morality.

I think that it's " not morally correct" to even think about going hunting and not have the ability to hit 3 six inch targets off hand at 100 yards or take a shot at an animal at a distance that the shooter had never practiced at. Or take hero shots with an animal that the PH really killed.

Some people say that it is unethical to shoot an animal at a distance that THEY couldn't hit a barn at , let alone it's door. But there really are guys out there who can hit targets less than 10 inches at a 1000 yards with heavy supersonic projectiles at will.

This Mark Sullivan guy appears to be pretty fearless and in my book he should get some points for that. Plus! He doesn't go all snowflake and have furrows worn into his cheeks by the waterfall coming out of his tear squirters about how the bad rifle kicked him too much

I have listened to him talk and in a way he kinds reminds me of a pro wrassler with a gun.

I talked with him when he was in Alaska a number of years ago. I told him that his videos made it appear that he was intentionally wounding animals and then pressuring them to invoke a charge. He did not deny it and told me that he felt we should be doing it on grizzly. The conversation went downhill from there.

If that is in fact what he is doing, it is unethical in my book.

 

[Von S.]

If he is infact wounding game and then teasing the to get them to get up and charge that would be very wrong.

 

[WAB]

If he is infact wounding game and then teasing the to get them to get up and charge that would be very wrong.

Watch some of his older videos. It’s hard not to draw that conclusion.

 

[colorado]

For perspective, a .416 is 20% more energy than a 375 when shooting a bullet 20-25% heavier with a 10% better BC on average. Average of 37lbs of recoil on a 375HH versus 58lbs of recoil on an average 416 Rigby...tradeoffs!

500 Jeffery, 75% more energy, shoots a bullet 90% heavier, 100 ft lbs recoil! As you said, tradeoffs

 

[Ridgewalker]

Ouch! Colorado, I think that would maim on both ends!
Well, I’m still using a 375 H&H on my next DG (lion) hunt. My PH will have his 458 Lott or 505 Gibbs to cover my scrauney behind!

 

[Von S.]

To the Right Handsome Squire Ridgewalker,

I believe that the 375 will do a number on the big kitty.

But is it a big time stopping round on a big cat with a body shot? Close up? Charging to check your cholesterol count by taste? That is what I m not so sure about.

I have seen quite a few cats die in their tracks with one 250 - 270 grain bullet that made them look like they just layed down and went to sleep. A few when hit twirled around like Nadia Komaniche and where then blasted by something really big. I've also seen one hit twice in the chest with 50 caliber slugs and it died after being hit 3 more times.

Who can tell?

If you look at them, most aren't all that big, but then again they do have that 9 lives thing on their side.

I'm sure you got it figured out already.

 

[TOBY458]

Ouch! Colorado, I think that would maim on both ends!
Well, I’m still using a 375 H&H on my next DG (lion) hunt. My PH will have his 458 Lott or 505 Gibbs to cover my scrauney behind!

Who ya going lion hunting with?

 

[Ridgewalker]

Who ya going lion hunting with?

PawPrints in Kalahari near Botswana border. Same deal he posted here last year. Too good to pass up.
Probably my last DG hunt before I start taking my granddaughter with me for her to hunt.

 

[TOBY458]

PawPrints in Kalahari near Botswana border. Same deal he posted here last year. Too good to pass up.
Probably my last DG hunt before I start taking my granddaughter with me for her to hunt.

Nice! Are you hunting a male or lioness? I assume you wont be able to bring it home into the US?

 

[Ridgewalker]

Nice! Are you hunting a male or lioness? I assume you wont be able to bring it home into the US?

Both lion and lioness and you’re correct I cannot bring them to the US. For the price and since I have no space nor desire to have them mounted, pictures and the experience I believe will be plenty. That’s assuming I don’t have a heart attack from it!

Hearing Gizmo’s experience with his has me excited!

Toby, at my age having a new experience is vastly more interesting than having “stuff” I’ll just soon have to get rid of. I want to save as much money as I can to take my new hunting partner (granddaughter) on as many trips as possible before my body gives out. JMO