35 Whelen vs 9.3x62

[bruce moulds]

i have met a few humans who are constantly rutting.
never heard one roaring as yet.
bruce.

 

[PaulT]

Just curious as to what brand of 225gr bullet do you use in your .338? Thanks!

Remington Ultra-bond Core-lokt.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob are you saying the Sambar "Rut" or the Red Deer "Roar" as I have never heard a Sambar roaring ?

The Reds are Roaring here now, Sika & Fallow next month, in NZ Sambar & Rusa Rut in June/July mainly, with the Rusa actully roaring to !

I was out this morning, shot a Fallow Doe for my buddy, first female Deer I have shot in many years & could hear a few Reds going for it on daylight !

@Sarg
Rut, roar, bulging. What ever the shagging season starts soon
Simples covers everything
Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

Remington Ultra-bond Core-lokt.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I have taken all of my elk with the standard 225gr Core Lokt, but have a box of the Ultra Bonded. I’ve had no reason to break open that box yet?

 

[njc110381]

Well it's nice to see a Whelen thread come up on here. The timing couldn't be better. My gunsmith has just finished my Sako 75 build so once it's done at proof, I'll be good to go!

I picked the Whelen over the 9.3 for a number of reasons. For a start, as well as conventional rifle bullets it's also able to shoot .357 pistol bullets. My theory, although not proven, is that I should be able to make quite an interesting varmint round by working up something like a Hornady XTP beyond it's design spec of velocity until it fragments on impact? The lightest bullet I've found for it is 93gr, which should mean I can make it happen without too much energy.

Secondly, at the other end of the scale, Woodleigh make a 310gr Weldcore for it, which should put it up around 9.3x62 performance. It'll certainly make it's way through most game I'm likely to shoot. I've bought some 225gr Barnes TSX to work up as an every day load, I think they should do for most things but if I need to go heavier I went for a 12 twist barrel so I'm able to.

Last but not least, I have a pistol range locally which allows the use of chamber adaptors in fullbore rifles. Guys there shoot things like .32acp through their .308's so I was thinking, why not .357 through a Whelen? I may have to semi rim a few cases to fit an adaptor that can still eject, but that's no big deal.

The 9.3x62 is reasonably common here and ammunition can be sourced at most of the larger shops. .35 Whelen on the other hand - well according to the national firearms database run by the UK police, there are three other rifles in the country! I've found two of those owners through forums, the last one hasn't shown up yet. Feeding this will be slightly more difficult but being a home loader that doesn't bother me too much. It mattered more that I could do all the things I listed above, many of which the 9.3x62 can't achieve.

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi Bob,

The thing is, with similar bullet weights and with the same powders, all others factors bein equal, the 9,3x62 is still going 50/100 f/s ahead the 35 Whelen. Case capacity rules!

Best

CF

 

[Shootist43]

Njc, you are going to love your 35 Whelen. I've said many times that the 9.3 x 62 and the 35 Whelen are ballistic twins. Maybe I should say that they are close enough to being identical twins that only their "mother" can tell them apart. Just curious, what length barrel did you get? BTW Bob Nelson uses CFE 223 in his Whelen and I use IMR 4064 in mine.

 

[njc110381]

Njc, you are going to love your 35 Whelen. I've said many times that the 9.3 x 62 and the 35 Whelen are ballistic twins. Maybe I should say that they are close enough to being identical twins that only their "mother" can tell them apart. Just curious, what length barrel did you get? BTW Bob Nelson uses CFE 223 in his Whelen and I use IMR 4064 in mine.

I'm pretty sure I asked for 22". That seemed a good compromise between short and not losing too much velocity. We tend to moderate most of our hunting rifles here in the UK so that will add 4-6" to the rifle. With the weight on the muzzle too it gets very out of balance if the barrel is too long.

I plan to try Reloder 15 at first. I use it in other rifles so have it here. We have some really annoying rules here regarding powder and I'm not sure I can get 4064. CFE223 could be an option, as is Alliant 2000MR which I've read good things about in the Whelen.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Well it's nice to see a Whelen thread come up on here. The timing couldn't be better. My gunsmith has just finished my Sako 75 build so once it's done at proof, I'll be good to go!

I picked the Whelen over the 9.3 for a number of reasons. For a start, as well as conventional rifle bullets it's also able to shoot .357 pistol bullets. My theory, although not proven, is that I should be able to make quite an interesting varmint round by working up something like a Hornady XTP beyond it's design spec of velocity until it fragments on impact? The lightest bullet I've found for it is 93gr, which should mean I can make it happen without too much energy.

Secondly, at the other end of the scale, Woodleigh make a 310gr Weldcore for it, which should put it up around 9.3x62 performance. It'll certainly make it's way through most game I'm likely to shoot. I've bought some 225gr Barnes TSX to work up as an every day load, I think they should do for most things but if I need to go heavier I went for a 12 twist barrel so I'm able to.

Last but not least, I have a pistol range locally which allows the use of chamber adaptors in fullbore rifles. Guys there shoot things like .32acp through their .308's so I was thinking, why not .357 through a Whelen? I may have to semi rim a few cases to fit an adaptor that can still eject, but that's no big deal.

The 9.3x62 is reasonably common here and ammunition can be sourced at most of the larger shops. .35 Whelen on the other hand - well according to the national firearms database run by the UK police, there are three other rifles in the country! I've found two of those owners through forums, the last one hasn't shown up yet. Feeding this will be slightly more difficult but being a home loader that doesn't bother me too much. It mattered more that I could do all the things I listed above, many of which the 9.3x62 can't achieve.

@njc110381
Forget the 310s mate. There's a lot of posts out there on this site about getting the most out of the Whelen for every day use there's no flies an a good 225 @up to 2,950 fps. Shoots flat and hits hard. If'n you need more oomph a 250 grain at 2,700 fps won't disappoint.
THE BEST POWDER I HAVE FOUND FOR THE WHELEN IS HOGDON CFE223.
Loading pistol bullets is a great idea for fun. My gunsmith offered to make me an adapter for 357 mag for 100 bucks. If you can't get one I'm sure he would make one and I could post it over to you.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'm pretty sure I asked for 22". That seemed a good compromise between short and not losing too much velocity. We tend to moderate most of our hunting rifles here in the UK so that will add 4-6" to the rifle. With the weight on the muzzle too it gets very out of balance if the barrel is too long.

I plan to try Reloder 15 at first. I use it in other rifles so have it here. We have some really annoying rules here regarding powder and I'm not sure I can get 4064. CFE223 could be an option, as is Alliant 2000MR which I've read good things about in the Whelen.

@njc110381
2000MR give even better velocity than cfe223 but isn't available in OZ.
It will get your 250s above 2,700fps and your 225s around 2,900 fps.
I can assure you these loads will get your attention without a moderator
Bob

 

[njc110381]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen I do wonder how much I actually need to stoke up the loads for my everyday shooting? A fallow deer, which is about as big as we get in my area, weighs about 80kg. Hardly a big animal and my ranges will around 200m at the most. To be legal in Scotland it needs to exceed 2450fps so I may start with something around there and see what the trajectory is like.

For a lot of my shooting I don't really need full load power from the gun. Bullets intended for the .35 Remington would work well. The great thing about the Whelen is that it offers such a broad range of load options, and that's the main reason I went for it. I can stoke it up if I need to (and will develop those before I need them along with the other ammunition) but the majority of the time I think I'll keep it fairly mild.

 

[Scrumbag]

Well it's nice to see a Whelen thread come up on here. The timing couldn't be better. My gunsmith has just finished my Sako 75 build so once it's done at proof, I'll be good to go!

I picked the Whelen over the 9.3 for a number of reasons. For a start, as well as conventional rifle bullets it's also able to shoot .357 pistol bullets. My theory, although not proven, is that I should be able to make quite an interesting varmint round by working up something like a Hornady XTP beyond it's design spec of velocity until it fragments on impact? The lightest bullet I've found for it is 93gr, which should mean I can make it happen without too much energy.

Secondly, at the other end of the scale, Woodleigh make a 310gr Weldcore for it, which should put it up around 9.3x62 performance. It'll certainly make it's way through most game I'm likely to shoot. I've bought some 225gr Barnes TSX to work up as an every day load, I think they should do for most things but if I need to go heavier I went for a 12 twist barrel so I'm able to.

Last but not least, I have a pistol range locally which allows the use of chamber adaptors in fullbore rifles. Guys there shoot things like .32acp through their .308's so I was thinking, why not .357 through a Whelen? I may have to semi rim a few cases to fit an adaptor that can still eject, but that's no big deal.

The 9.3x62 is reasonably common here and ammunition can be sourced at most of the larger shops. .35 Whelen on the other hand - well according to the national firearms database run by the UK police, there are three other rifles in the country! I've found two of those owners through forums, the last one hasn't shown up yet. Feeding this will be slightly more difficult but being a home loader that doesn't bother me too much. It mattered more that I could do all the things I listed above, many of which the 9.3x62 can't achieve.

They say my friend you can use .365 makarov bullets for “gallery” usage

 

[bruce moulds]

njc,
i used 158 gn 357 pistol bullets when i ha d whelen, and they shot reasonably well with reduced recoil.
powder was ar2201, gone now but similar burning rate to imr4198..
i used them for goats which are lighter than most deer.
i will say though that the 270 was a generally more useful cartridge due to trajectory and overall bullet performance.
bruce.

 

[Tanks]

...Hardly a big animal and my ranges will around 200m at the most. To be legal in Scotland it needs to exceed 2450fps so I may start with something around there and see what the trajectory is like.
...

I am confused, In Scotland they look at velocity and not the energy for suitability of a caliber? By that logic .220 Swift is more suitable than a 9.3x74R double rifle.

 

[bruce moulds]

actually it might be with the right bullet.
some of that scottish hill country looks pretty open demanding flat trajectory.
like i said, with the right bullet.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen I do wonder how much I actually need to stoke up the loads for my everyday shooting? A fallow deer, which is about as big as we get in my area, weighs about 80kg. Hardly a big animal and my ranges will around 200m at the most. To be legal in Scotland it needs to exceed 2450fps so I may start with something around there and see what the trajectory is like.

For a lot of my shooting I don't really need full load power from the gun. Bullets intended for the .35 Remington would work well. The great thing about the Whelen is that it offers such a broad range of load options, and that's the main reason I went for it. I can stoke it up if I need to (and will develop those before I need them along with the other ammunition) but the majority of the time I think I'll keep it fairly mild.

@

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen I do wonder how much I actually need to stoke up the loads for my everyday shooting? A fallow deer, which is about as big as we get in my area, weighs about 80kg. Hardly a big animal and my ranges will around 200m at the most. To be legal in Scotland it needs to exceed 2450fps so I may start with something around there and see what the trajectory is like.

For a lot of my shooting I don't really need full load power from the gun. Bullets intended for the .35 Remington would work well. The great thing about the Whelen is that it offers such a broad range of load options, and that's the main reason I went for it. I can stoke it up if I need to (and will develop those before I need them along with the other ammunition) but the majority of the time I think I'll keep it fairly mild.

@njc110381
That's the beauty of the Whelen you can go from mild to wild very easy.
Bob

 

[Scrumbag]

I am confused, In Scotland they look at velocity and not the energy for suitability of a caliber? By that logic .220 Swift is more suitable than a 9.3x74R double rifle.

Tanks, it's an odd set of laws.

In Scotland

For fallow and red deer: minimum 100gr bullet, 2,450 fps MV and an ME of 1,750 ftlbs with a centre fire of greater than 240 Cal.
Roe Deer - 50 gr bullet, 1,000 ftlbs and MV min of 2,450 fps and a .22 CF.

In England

Fallow, Red and ROE deer: 1700 ftlbs and a .240 cal centre fire
Chinese Water Deer and Muntjac - .22cf, 50 gr bullet and 1,000 ftlbs

So, in Scotland a lot of factory loadings for 9.3x62 / 9.3x74r for example won't make the MV minimum (You are often looking at the ~230gr offerings). Nor will .45-70 or even .30-30 make it (Quite a few of the classic deer lever action loadings)

However, across in what quite a few parts is just a line or a narrow stream, those chamberings will be fine.

Also, on the North (Scottish) side of the line you can happily shoot roe deer with your .22 Centre Fire but on the South (English) they become much tougher and need practically a minimum of a .243 Win...

"The law is an ass"

 

[CoElkHunter]

Tanks, it's an odd set of laws.

In Scotland

For fallow and red deer: minimum 100gr bullet, 2,450 fps MV and an ME of 1,750 ftlbs with a centre fire of greater than 240 Cal.
Roe Deer - 50 gr bullet, 1,000 ftlbs and MV min of 2,450 fps and a .22 CF.

In England

Fallow, Red and ROE deer: 1700 ftlbs and a .240 cal centre fire
Chinese Water Deer and Muntjac - .22cf, 50 gr bullet and 1,000 ftlbs

So, in Scotland a lot of factory loadings for 9.3x62 / 9.3x74r for example won't make the MV minimum (You are often looking at the ~230gr offerings). Nor will .45-70 or even .30-30 make it (Quite a few of the classic deer lever action loadings)

However, across in what quite a few parts is just a line or a narrow stream, those chamberings will be fine.

Also, on the North (Scottish) side of the line you can happily shoot roe deer with your .22 Centre Fire but on the South (English) they become much tougher and need practically a minimum of a .243 Win...

"The law is an ass"

Wow, very confusing cartridge requirements depending on where you’re hunting? It appears from your description of the cartridge requirements in Scotland, that factory .35 Whelen loads may not make the cut? So, to be on the safe side, hunt with a .338WM and you’ll be good to go!