35 Whelen vs 9.3x62

[WAB]

I’m not sure why there is such a desire for velocity with these cartridges. I don’t think it makes any difference at typical ranges we shoot at in Africa. Out of dozens of animals I can think of one shot taken at over 200 yards, a one horned cull eland bull.

 

[bruce moulds]

re17 looks good for the x62, but we can't get it here in oz.
it would probably be good for the x64 as well.
bruce.

 

[bruce moulds]

wab,
it depends where you shoot.
bruce.

 

[WAB]

Totally agree Bruce. 200 and in we r wasting our time chasing 100 fps. If you’re stretching the barrel it starts to make sense.

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi WAB,

I think is not a desire to get all the velocity a cartridge is capable for. To me is to know that potential. From there it can be decided what to do.

Best!

CF

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hello Aaron.F,

Comparing apples vs. apples, the 9,3x62 has, between 50 to 100 f/s more than the .35 Whelen with same bullet weight, all other things being equal: same barrel length rifles, and same presure loads.
That´s because the diference in case capacities, in favor the 9,3x62, and slightly bigger bore of the 9,3. Plus the fact of the very long distance to the lands in the 9,3x62 standard chamber design.

Best!

CF

@Clodo Ferreira
You will find the standard Whelen has a long throat as well. Can't comment on the 9.3 tho.
I had the neck and leade lengthened so I could load the long 225 accubonds to 3.4 inches.
With the newer powders giving different pressure curves these powders are able to maintain a safe pressures longer to maintain thrust on the base of the projectiles. Unlike the parabolic curve that peaks and flattens quickly the newer powders peak and slowly drop the pressure over a longer time. This in turn enables higher velocities.
Bob

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi Bob,

Right!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

By the way, I reload for my 9,3x62 60 cm (23,6") barrel lenght with 220 grs monometalic bullets and can reach 2800/2850 f/s easely with R15 and RWS/NORMA cases. Also use 250 grs TTSX, GMX and Accubonds with same cases and powder for 2650 f/s. Sane maximum loads. It is rather dificult to reach the same results with the .35 Whelen at similar presures...

@Clodo Ferreira
It is very easy to match and excede those figures in the Whelen SAFELY with some of the new powders like cfe223 and ancient powders. I'm getting 2,700fps with 250 grainers comfortably out of my 25 inch barrel there's another powder that will take it over that speed.

In the real word out matters not if it's 9.3 or .358. Anything hit with a 250 grain at 2,700 fps is definitely going to know about it and be very dead if the hunter does their part.
It's a bit like saying a 351cui ford motor has more power than a 350cui chev motor
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have a 9.3 but would love to have a 35 whelen only so I could load a 225 gr @ 2625 and pretend it’s the great 350 Rigby. Rigbys are not easy to afford...

I can’t say I’ve ever heard a complaint about the old 350.

@baxterb
Why load the Whelen that low with 225s when you can safely get up to 2,950 fps out of the Whelen. Then you don't have to pretend because you have BETTER than the Rigby.
Bob

 

[bruce moulds]

bob,
250 gns id heavy for 35 and light to med for 9.3.
you really need to compare bullets of similar s.d.
bruce.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Just for giggles I did a little weighing of charges.

Using Hunter ball powder to fill cases, I have as follows;
.35 Whelen 70. 0 grs Rem case
9.3x62 75.0 grs "
8x64s 70.2 grs. S&B case
.375 H&H 93.7 Rem case
" 94.2 Win case

Claimed loads by Bob Nelson and Laurie Colgrave show .35 W and 9.3x62 loadings that equal or surpass what we might consider normal .375 velocities, even though the H&H has a 20 grain advantage in boiler room, and a bigger base to push on than either.
So it stands to reason that if the smaller rounds can achieve these extraordinary velocities, then the old H&H should be able to surpass them easily and so it can.
My Barnes manual shows top speeds of 2655 with a 300 gr TSX for about 4700 ME and shows the 300 gr Banded Solid at 2800 for 5223 ME which is .458 mag territory.
BTW the Ruger .375 in the same book does not show loads this fast.
I have been shooting and loading the .375 for many years but never felt the need to go much beyond standard loadings, think my hottest load pushed a 300gr Nosler to just over 2600 fps.
Same with the 9.3x62, standard speed loads work great, and likewise the great old Whelen. I was always happy to get 2500 fps with a 250 gr bullet and anything over 2600 fps with a 225 gr, seemed like good stuff to me.
I dont doubt the claimed speeds by some, but it just goes beyond where I have any real desire to go.

Lately enjoying working up loads for my 8x64s Mark X Mauser. I have some new Norma powders to try in it and that should be fun.

And how many grains did the .338 WM hold? Just curious?

 

[sestoppelman]

It was not included in this little exercise, but just looked and a Win case held 86 grs of the same powder.

 

[CoElkHunter]

It was not included in this little exercise, but just looked and a Win case held 86 grs of the same powder.

THANKS!

 

[sestoppelman]

@Clodo Ferreira
You will find the standard Whelen has a long throat as well. Can't comment on the 9.3 tho.
I had the neck and leade lengthened so I could load the long 225 accubonds to 3.4 inches.
With the newer powders giving different pressure curves these powders are able to maintain a safe pressures longer to maintain thrust on the base of the projectiles. Unlike the parabolic curve that peaks and flattens quickly the newer powders peak and slowly drop the pressure over a longer time. This in turn enables higher velocities.
Bob

On the throat, depends on who cuts it. The Whelen wont always have a long throat. Most Euro rifles are cut with a long throat I have found, CIP specs are a tad different than SAAMI. I once had a Ruger 7x64 with a throat way longer than what I was used to seeing, cut to CIP specs.
I took it up with Ruger and pissed and moaned about it. Guy says, "well did you shoot it?" Well, uh no says I. "shoot it first then come back and whine if you like". I did, it shot just fine with all weights and I said no more about other than to call the guy back and apologize for being a boob!
I got over the long throat thing right there.

I like a long throat if the magazine is commensurate in length for seating out. I hate having a long mag and short throat and vice versa.

 

[bruce moulds]

some cartridges have what appears to be a long throat, and acts like a long throat, but is in fact a leade angle of like 1/2 degree as opposed to the 1.5 degree we are used to today.
these low angle leades might be old fashioned, but they reduce pressures remarkably well, while still shooting straight.
long throats should give far better accuracy potential than most hunters and serious varmint shooters can use, while giving reliable function of the firearm.
fclass shooters are now jumping bullets with great accuracy.
bruce.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

bob,
250 gns id heavy for 35 and light to med for 9.3.
you really need to compare bullets of similar s.d.
bruce.

@bruce moulds
A 275 grain Woodleigh is a tad higher in SD than the 286 but not worth worrying about. It can be put out of the Whelen at 2,500 fps. I don't know why people get hung up on SD so much nowdays, yes when bullets were copper alloy and lead fair enough. Now we have monometals that are lighter have lower SD and penetrate better than the old gravey cup and core.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

My 243 Sako Varmint is my varmint, fox, rabbit, roo rifle.. dont like cleaning a 224 bore.. In WA, and venture to NT in dry season for safari work. Try to get on Sambar every year now, love it, and Africa calls us...

@expresshunt
Now our borders are open again you better start packing for the sambar. The roar should be starting in a couple of months.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

re17 looks good for the x62, but we can't get it here in oz.
it would probably be good for the x64 as well.
bruce.

@bruce moulds
We don't have any problems getting Re17 in NSW most shops have some.
Bob

 

[bruce moulds]

that is good to know bob.
i thought they had stopped importing it period.
bruce.

 

[Sarg]

Bob are you saying the Sambar "Rut" or the Red Deer "Roar" as I have never heard a Sambar roaring ?

The Reds are Roaring here now, Sika & Fallow next month, in NZ Sambar & Rusa Rut in June/July mainly, with the Rusa actully roaring to !

I was out this morning, shot a Fallow Doe for my buddy, first female Deer I have shot in many years & could hear a few Reds going for it on daylight !