338 Winchester Magnum

[Viral_SIGness]

so what does jarra wood have to do with the 338 calibre?
bruce.

I was wondering that myself. I thought I had just missed something.

 

[bruce moulds]

I was starting to wonder if gert had a few drinkies.
bruce.

 

[Andries Marais]

modern brass combined with sensible handloading practice will deal with those issues.
bruce.

One should consider the .375 Ruger / .416 Ruger / .416 Remington Magnum as having modern brass. Al three are very high pressure cartridges compared to the .416 Rigby, and they have almost parallel sides.

Our experience is (and I read it in these pages as well) that visiting hunters think that Africa animals are tough (which they are not), so most first time visitors for partcularly Cape buffalo try and squeeze every last meter/sec of velocity out of his cartridge. If it is a modern .416s their modern brass already needs 65,000 psi to equal the Rigby with its 47,000 psi, and if the visitor had done his load development in a cold atmosphere and he hunts in Southern Africa when even midwinter the midday temperature may be 100 degrees F he WILL experience overpressure and difficult extraction - or even a stuck case. Have seen and heard about too many of those to ignore it.

I have quite a bit personal as well as observed experience in the Niassa Province of Mozambique with the .416 Rigby on everything from Cape buffalo to the little duiker antelope and everything inbetween. No matter the temperature, its well angled sides and low pressure makes for day after hot day consistently easy extraction. There is a reason why the majority of local PHs prefer the .416 Rigby and .375 H&H as their back-up riles.

About tough animals: Blue wildebeest, oryx, kudu, red hartebeest are sissies compared to elk or mule deer as they fall every day all over the country to single bullets from the most popular elk size hunting cartridge in South Africa, namely the .308W. There is honestly no need for anything more powerful than a 30-06 here.

 

[Viral_SIGness]

One should consider the .375 Ruger / .416 Ruger / .416 Remington Magnum as having modern brass. Al three are very high pressure cartridges compared to the .416 Rigby, and they have almost parallel sides.

Our experience is (and I read it in these pages as well) that visiting hunters think that Africa animals are tough (which they are not), so most first time visitors for partcularly Cape buffalo try and squeeze every last meter/sec of velocity out of his cartridge. If it is a modern .416s their modern brass already needs 65,000 psi to equal the Rigby with its 47,000 psi, and if the visitor had done his load development in a cold atmosphere and he hunts in Southern Africa when even midwinter the midday temperature may be 100 degrees F he WILL experience overpressure and difficult extraction - or even a stuck case. Have seen and heard about too many of those to ignore it.

I have quite a bit personal as well as observed experience in the Niassa Province of Mozambique with the .416 Rigby on everything from Cape buffalo to the little duiker antelope and everything inbetween. No matter the temperature, its well angled sides and low pressure makes for day after hot day consistently easy extraction. There is a reason why the majority of local PHs prefer the .416 Rigby and .375 H&H as their back-up riles.

About tough animals: Blue wildebeest, oryx, kudu, red hartebeest are sissies compared to elk or mule deer as they fall every day all over the country to single bullets from the most popular elk size hunting cartridge in South Africa, namely the .308W. There is honestly no need for anything more powerful than a 30-06 here.

Stuck Ruger. He didn't know it was stuck until after the Lion was down, but stuck none the less.

 

[Daga Boy]

Both great calibers, but from what I've learned about Africa hunting, they wouldn't be preferred choices. Seems they prefer lower pressures, to prevent extraction issues in the extreme heat. That's why the .416 Rigby is still so popular. The .416 Rem Mag and .416 Ruger (.416 Roy is a lot more powerful, but very high pressures) are nearly identical in power, but the huge Rigby case does it at much lower pressures, and that's a big deal when you're about to be trampled. The last thing you want is a sticky case. The .458 Win Mag suffered that fate in the beginning, and it still isn't popular on the dark continent.

I've also learned, when it comes to PH/Guides, they have .458 Lotts opened up to accept the .458 3". So again, they get the Lott power, at much lower pressures.

By the way, I'm not knocking anyone's choices, or favorites. Just merely sharing what I've learned, and making conversation.

Spot on. .458 3" is very popular here as its a cheap conversion and you get sufficient velocity/power without having to risk high pressures. .450 Ackley is very similar and a good design.

 

[Andries Marais]

1. The Rigby was not "designed for cordite". Cordite was the smokeless propellant at the time with very stable properties and every British-made cartridge used it. When the newer kernel propellants arrived on the market it was immediately used. The cordite or kernel propellant is neither here nor there regarding a cartridge's modern day performance.

2. It is presently and has been for very many years used all around southern Africa on dangerous game and in the very hot climates of the far northern Niassa Province of Mozambique bordering Tanzania it is the favourite simply because of the 47,000 psi pressure and never an extraction issue. It is my goto cartridge in a CZ 550 when I am there. It is used with only 400 gr Peregrine VRG-2 monolithic solids for everything from culling problem elephant, Cape buffalo by visiting, to camp meat.

3. There was a note about "modern" brass, although brass alloys for cartridge cases have been the same for very long. I use Lapua brass for the .416 Rigby, which is as modern as Hornady's cases for the Ruger and Remington's cartridges.

4. My post was not to say "do not bring a high pressure .338 Win Mag or .416 Rem Mag or Ruger to Africa". I am merely stating our reasons why you would hardly ever see one of those used by a local hunter - and even lesser so by a PH. For non dangerous game the far by far most popular cartridge for elk-size animals in South Africa is the .308W - followed by the 30-06, 7x 64 Brenneke, 7x57, .303 Brit, 6,5x57 Mauser and others. The older German cartridges are more prevalent in Namibia.

 

[Daga Boy]

I have been using a Ruger M77 Mk 2 in .338 WM for about 20 years now. IMO it is one of the best all-round Caliber for all African applications, barring DG at close quarters. External ballistics and penetration are excellent and recoil is not severe provided the rifle is not too light.
With relatively light, aerodynamic bullets (like Hornady SST) you can reliably take large antelope with it at ranges in excess of 400m.
With tough, heavy bullets (like 275gr Swifts) it does a great job on any beast including giraffe and buffalo even at close range.
As to the issues around pressure, all I can say is that I have never experienced any problem whatsoever. That said, I do not load to the absolute max. especially with heavier bullets as I have found that one reaches a point of diminishing returns ito recoil vs velocity. e.g, my 275gr loads average just shy of 2400fps ( so basically identical to SAKO factory). Although this is a fairly mild load , it will penetrate a large antelope end to end or break both shoulders of a buffalo.
More versatile than this is hard to find. Plus the platform is pretty compact and handy- unlike most 375H7H's, which I find a bit unwieldy.

 

[Daga Boy]

Stuck Ruger. He didn't know it was stuck until after the Lion was down, but stuck none the less.
View attachment 346002

This is true, but the 375 Ruger is a nice , compact round, and it will not give any problems if loaded to sensible pressures/velocities.

 

[Viral_SIGness]

This is true, but the 375 Ruger is a nice , compact round, and it will not give any problems if loaded to sensible pressures/velocities.

Yes it is, I just bought one myself.

As far as the .338 Win Mag, I'm a huge fan. It is my absolute favorite cartridge to hunt with. The 250 grain Partitions and 225 Accubonds >performed admirably. I do have a feeling that the .375 Ruger is going to become my favorite!

 

[RayAtkinson]

You wont need a 375 in RSA, the 338 will handle all that's on license in the way of PG, and Buffalo are in fenced ranches except for one location out of the park and you wont be hunting there...Were you hunting in say Tanzania or even Zimbabwe a 375 could possibly be handy if you ran across a buff with a wire on his leg...Even so I shot a big buffalo bull in Tanzania with Barry Van Heerden one year with a .338 with a scope as I needed to thread a shot thru some brush with only a hole to shoot thru and it worked the bull ran about 40 yards and died, about what Ive come to expect with a 458 or 505 for that matter..

I like the 250 gr. Nosler partition in the 338 and the 225 Accubond it a also a fine bullet.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Its a fine cartridge. My Ruger 77 shoots it very well with most bullet weights. It can be loaded down to like 35 Whelen or .338-06 ballistics for less recoil and still be plenty of power for PG. Load up some 250 or 275 gr bullets and its good for eland or even buff with the right bullets. Have full confidence in mine.

@sestoppelman
I know this is an old post but with the new powders available today you might not have to load it down at all to equal a properly loaded Whelen.
Bob

 

[JLF]

Excellent choice. With the indicated bullet weight and placing the shot in its place, there is no animal on the ground that does not fall dead. I had the opportunity already watts years ago in the Patagonia of my country to kill a buffalo ...

 

[RayAtkinson]

Ive used the .338 win. on most of my RSA PG hunts its perfect for all PG, including Eland and Giraffe. Ive even shot a couple of buffalo with it..I like the 225 gr. accubond and the 250 gr. Nosler.
You refer to the big stuff, in RSA, that might include a buffalo and even an elephant, but not normally..I would opt for a shotgun or a 222 rem..for my second gun if you feel the need..Hauling 3 guns around in the airports is a real pain sometimes..I try to limit myself to one gun for all game, and that usually a 9.3x62 or 375 as I may be in several different countries during the course of the hunting season and either of those works on everything..

 

[Daga Boy]

In my book, and having used this calibre for around 20 years, its the best all round freely available/non custom calibre for Southern Africa.
If you are only hunting in the bush areas then 9.3 x 62 (which I also own) is possibly a better choice just because of the reduced Velocities and higher cross sectional area, but there isn't a lot in it. I certainly don't think the animals can feel the difference. 9.3 is also not as versatile. ( a 9.3/.338 probably would be, but that's a wildcat. the .338 Sabi, which is a bit milder than the .338 WM is also popular, but more in bush country.
A good second rifle for Africa is a smaller, flat shooting calibre. There are many options to choose from - from .243 to 7mm Rem Mag. These are excellent for springbuck, blesbuck, black wildebeest, mountain reedbuck, etc. as those species are typically shot in open grassland or mountainous terrain.
A shotgun is also a good option as there is frequently good wing shooting to be had.
Do not bring a rifle under .243 as they are generally not allowed on anything except very small game (hares, jackals, etc) - so really a waste of time.

 

[shark_za]

Just reading through this thread and see people mentioning Berger VLD "hunting" and ELD-X bullets.
Please don't bring these to hunt, pretty please.

Target bullets belong on the range.

 

[Fastrig]

In my book, and having used this calibre for around 20 years, its the best all round freely available/non custom calibre for Southern Africa.
If you are only hunting in the bush areas then 9.3 x 62 (which I also own) is possibly a better choice just because of the reduced Velocities and higher cross sectional area, but there isn't a lot in it. I certainly don't think the animals can feel the difference. 9.3 is also not as versatile. ( a 9.3/.338 probably would be, but that's a wildcat. the .338 Sabi, which is a bit milder than the .338 WM is also popular, but more in bush country.
A good second rifle for Africa is a smaller, flat shooting calibre. There are many options to choose from - from .243 to 7mm Rem Mag. These are excellent for springbuck, blesbuck, black wildebeest, mountain reedbuck, etc. as those species are typically shot in open grassland or mountainous terrain.
A shotgun is also a good option as there is frequently good wing shooting to be had.
Do not bring a rifle under .243 as they are generally not allowed on anything except very small game (hares, jackals, etc) - so really a waste of time.

Your post pretty much reflects what my PH suggested to me for my upcoming hunt in RSA. Have a 300 win mag/9.3x62 combo. He likes both calibers a lot but suggested I bring just the 300 win mag with the 180 grain Barnes TTSX rounds I’m partial to. Going after a Kudu/Gemsbock/Impala on this hunt and understand that the terrain varies from bush, mountain-ish, to open plains. He felt the 300 wm would be better for possible longer shots that may present themselves. Really wanted to take the 9.3x62 but am taking my PH’s advice and taking the win mag, saving the 9.3x62 for my next trip when we go after larger game.

 

[Daga Boy]

I couldn't agree more. .300WM is an excellent calibre. Bullets in the 165gr -180gr range work very well in open country. In bush country (e.g. Limpopo) opt for the heaviest bullet which performs well in your rifle. Monometal bullets work very well in the bush as they do not blow up. In open country like the Karoo or Kalahari I prefer a more frangible bullet as monometals sometimes fail to expand at long range. If you are only going to use one load then the Barnes 180gr TTSX is top choice.

 

[bruce moulds]

the 210 nosler partition is one bullet i would never again use due to failure.
i would particularly avoid it on big animals like eland for any but a sideways on lung shot.
this also applies to the 9.3 mm 286 gn partition.
look to swift, and you will have a far better gun for all target presentations.
bruce.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

An acquaintance took a .338 to Africa with premium projectiles for plains game and after loseing an Eland traded it for a .416RM (bad shot placement). Just take the .375H&H for everything.

If you want (IMO you don't need) two rifles on safari go a 7mm and .375 or .30-06 and .450+. The .338 and .375 are too close.

Not sure trading the 338 for a 416 was the answer for bad shot placement!

Totally agree you don't need two rifles. Certainly not a 338 and a 375- way too close together.

I don't think a 375 belongs in any two-rifle combination. The whole point of it is that it is right in the middle- at the low end for big game, and rather a bit more than needed for plains game. If I were bringing 2 rifles, it would be something smaller than a 375 and something bigger.

I've taken plains game without problem up to and including eland with a 30-06; clearly a 338 would be up to the task.

 

[Daga Boy]

the 210 nosler partition is one bullet i would never again use due to failure.
i would particularly avoid it on big animals like eland for any but a sideways on lung shot.
this also applies to the 9.3 mm 286 gn partition.
look to swift, and you will have a far better gun for all target presentations.
bruce.

I totally agree. They work OK at fairly long ranges (200M plus); however there are better long range bullets - and they basically explode at bush ranges , with limited penetration and massive internal trauma. Definitely not suitable for thick skinned or heavy boned animals. The Sako hammerhead also tends to shed its jacket at bush ranges. Swift A frames perform wonderfully , even with full power loads a bush ranges. Expansion i adequate and penetration is outstanding. I have yet to recover one.