308 Winchester Caliber Opinions...

[samu]

Keeping the variable the same, using a Powley Computer. Federal 308 & 30-06 cases the estimated velocities for 180 gr bullet at 45K pressure are 2460fps and 2600 fps. there is no doubt that 2600 fps is faster than 2460. the question enters: is it worth it to the shooter. A 308 bolt action rifle has a half inch less length in the action and a half inch less barrel to achieve the same bullet base to muzzle distance, total length savings 1 inch. In several rifle designs, this will be about a pound. the 30-06 is a more powerful cartridge but seeing the number of 308s in the field indicate that a lot of hunters prefer the less length and weight.

Then again more and more guns are made with one action only. Tikka T3 and Blaser R8 to name few. LA Tikka actually has shorter bolt stop, no filler in magazine and more material out of same barrel blank carved to accommodate larger cartridge, making it insignificant amount lighter than short action.

 

[Hearties]

but seeing the number of 308s in the field indicate that a lot of hunters prefer the less length and weight.

No-one will ever admit to preferring less length

 

[Fastrig]

Keeping the variable the same, using a Powley Computer. Federal 308 & 30-06 cases the estimated velocities for 180 gr bullet at 45K pressure are 2460fps and 2600 fps. there is no doubt that 2600 fps is faster than 2460. the question enters: is it worth it to the shooter. A 308 bolt action rifle has a half inch less length in the action and a half inch less barrel to achieve the same bullet base to muzzle distance, total length savings 1 inch. In several rifle designs, this will be about a pound. the 30-06 is a more powerful cartridge but seeing the number of 308s in the field indicate that a lot of hunters prefer the less length and weight.

There is no “winner” between these two calibers, IMO. They both shine in given areas. If you want a bit more power at short range or going for longer range hunting, say out to 500 yards, then the 30-06 is the rifle of choice. If you want a great hunter from 300-400 yards in, that’s easy on the shoulder and cost effective to shoot a lot, with very close ballistics to the 30-06 in this range, then the 308 is a very good choice.

 

[Daga Boy]

He is half right. It is an excellent all round choice for game up to the size of Zebra at ranges preferably not exceeding 200m - which covers the majority of African plains game hunts.
For long range applications and heavier game several other calibres come into their own.

 

[Daga Boy]

There is no “winner” between these two calibers, IMO. They both shine in given areas. If you want a bit more power at short range or going for longer range hunting, say out to 500 yards, then the 30-06 is the rifle of choice. If you want a great hunter from 300-400 yards in, that’s easy on the shoulder and cost effective to shoot a lot, with very close ballistics to the 30-06 in this range, then the 308 is a very good choice.

Speaking for myself, I greatly prefer the .308 over the 30-06. The main reason is that the .308 does essentially the same job out of a significantly more compact rifle, and it does it with less recoil. There is also the argument about "inherent accuracy" but I am prepared to discount that. IMHO, if you are going to step up to a full length case then you might as well go for a 7mm Rem Mag or .338WM, depending on your application. If mainly bush then 9.3 x 62 is also a good call. All of these fit into a standard '06 action and all outperform the old lady.

 

[Fastrig]

Speaking for myself, I greatly prefer the .308 over the 30-06. The main reason is that the .308 does essentially the same job out of a significantly more compact rifle, and it does it with less recoil. There is also the argument about "inherent accuracy" but I am prepared to discount that. IMHO, if you are going to step up to a full length case then you might as well go for a 7mm Rem Mag or .338WM, depending on your application. If mainly bush then 9.3 x 62 is also a good call. All of these fit into a standard '06 action and all outperform the old lady.

Spot on, though I’d go with a 300 win mag over the 338 win mag. Have never owned a 7mm Rem mag but borrowed one for a hunt and found it to be an excellent elk cartridge. 9.3x62 would be my choice in Africa or Alaska. Bought one a while back and really like it. Nice choice of ammo from 230 to 320 grain. The 230 grain should do well out to 350 yards, the heavier rounds out to 250.

 

[sestoppelman]

No-one will ever admit to preferring less length

RayB said he prefers less length, why his wife waits for the milkman! LOL. Gotcha Ray!

 

[Ray B]

RayB said he prefers less length, why his wife waits for the milkman! LOL. Gotcha Ray!

I started out with a Rem 700 SA 308 20" barrel, but when I grew-up I went to a Win 70 Alaskan 338 Mag 25" barrel. Along the way the milkman retired and now we have to go to the store. I don't know of anywhere where there are still milkmen (or milkwomen).

 

[sestoppelman]

LOL Ray!! What a hoot!

I started with much the same rifle in 1969 in Alaska, only it had a 22" barrel, carried it for many years, very accurate rifle. Eventually after several back and forth's with my dad I sold it and been kicking myself in the butt ever since!

Also have been thru several .338's, love that round. Currently have a '69 vintage Model 70 that shoots just great and feeds as slick and reliable as any rifle I have owned.

 

[Ray B]

 

[sestoppelman]

A couple of well used beauties!

 

[Ray B]

Quite a difference in size between the M70 Alaskan 338 (made in 1960) and the M700 308 (made in 1962). The M70 weighs significantly more but a lot of the weight is due to repairs and reinforcement.

 

[Ray B]

Years ago, in the infancy stage of the internet there was a website, AllOutdoors or AllSeasons, something such as that. A poster on it referred to the 338 WinMag as the GGC, God's Given Cartridge. I have to admit, that for North American Big game he was not too far off. I've taken a liking to the 375RUM, although the 375 Ruger is probably more practical- .532 case head, standard length case.

 

[Ray B]

The discussion was more of 308 vs 30-06 so it was a tangent to involve the 338. so attached is a more valid comparison: M700 SA 308 win wt 7 lb 8 oz and M70 featherweight 30-06 wt 7 lb 14 oz. Both of 1962 mfg.

 

[Longwalker]

A few observations on our discussion and a theory...
I find it interesting how almost every public discussion I've ever read about the merits of the .308 inevitably evolves into a discussion of it vs. the 30-06. Reasonable enough, but the presumption made by most if not all .30-06 supporters is bigger/ faster is "better". I submit that is not necessarily so, and depends on perspective, culture and history.

I am writing this from Canada. We, and the entire British commonwealth of nations started out with the .303 British as the standard military cartridge. .303 caliber 150 and 180 grain bullets going a little slower than the the same weight bullets from a .308 were proven to be adequate for any skilled hunter to take any game animal in Canada at reasonable ranges. I am reasonably sure the same was proven in Australia, New Zealand, and for non dangerous game in India and some African countries.

Scandinavia had their 6.5x55. Even milder than the .303, but just as effective on moose. Germany had the 8x57IS, not so different than the .308 with similar bullet weights. Others used the 7x57. Each country had their "standard" that formed a paradigm by which anything else could be compared.

The USA had the .30-06, which had 10% or so more "power" - and once a base line of " adequate " is formed in a culture, it is very difficult to accept anything less is just as good - or better.

For me my first .308 was a small step up in power from the sporterized No. 4 SMLE .303 that I used on my first few hunts. It was all I needed, killed well, cost little, and worked every time. Even on game as big as moose.

Similar experiences happened I'm sure to others who used .303's and 6.5s and 7mm and 8mm former military arms or sporting arms for those cartridges.

Meanwhile, in the USA, the .30-06 was very well established as the standard. Everything had to be compared to it, and when the effective, efficient, accurate, and adequate .308 was introduced as the .30-06 replacement, it was compared, not on its own merits, but against the established paradigm. It came up short.

So today, the .308 is very well regarded as a capable hunting round most places in the world, but in the USA or in places where USA hunters visit often, it doesn't quite measure up to it's older, bigger brother.

To me the .308 remains a "Goldilocks" cartridge. Just right!

 

[perttime]

There's nothing particularly wrong with 308
If you need more than 308, there's always 30-06
If you need more than 30-06, there's always 300 Win Mag
If you need more than 300 Win Mag, there's always 300 Norma Magnum.
If you need more than 300 Norma Magnum, I'm sure you can figure out something.

If 308 is overkill, there's a plenty of options.

 

[Ray B]

Longwalkers' comment reminds me of a story told to me by a fellow that installed/maintained air conditioning units back when they were rare (late 1950s). He said there were three contractors preparing a bid for installation of central air in a building. The Canadian said the total cubic feet of air that the unit would be moving is noted as needing a 1 horse electric motor to operate. The Brit said that 1 horse was what the manufacturer suggested as was needed, but that most of the year it wouldn't need the full 1 horse, only during the Summer months would it be hot enough and then if the business owner was careful with the thermostat he could get by with less, so the Brit included only a 3/4 horse motor in his bid. The American contractor said the book shows that the system needs 1 horse to operate, so to take care of any contingency he specified a 2 horse motor in his bid.

3/4 = minimal requirement
1 = normal requirement
2 = over-kill

Sometimes cartridge selection has similar thought processes.

 

[Daga Boy]

Spot on, though I’d go with a 300 win mag over the 338 win mag. Have never owned a 7mm Rem mag but borrowed one for a hunt and found it to be an excellent elk cartridge. 9.3x62 would be my choice in Africa or Alaska. Bought one a while back and really like it. Nice choice of ammo from 230 to 320 grain. The 230 grain should do well out to 350 yards, the heavier rounds out to 250.

.300WM is a great plains cartridge but not great in the bush country. .338WM is similar to 9.3x62 (hand loaded, not commercial). As with the .308 , the .338WM gives a lot of punch out of a compact platform, and the long for calibre bullets fly and penetrate very well. With heavy bullets it is capable of taking buffalo and even elephant reliably - albeit not legal for that purpose in quite a few African countries. A little known fact is that it outperforms .375H&H at ranges exceeding 100m due to greater retained energies. It also shoots flat enough for use in desert and mountainous terrain , especially with bullets in the 200gr class. Recoil is also not severe in a properly built rifle of reasonable weight. I have used one extensively on a wide variety of game in all sorts of African terrain for +/- 20 years now. IMO its the best all-round African Plains game cartridge (and there are many who share this view). Having said that, its in a completely different class to either the .308Win or the .30-06 , so a bit off piste for this thread.

 

[Ragman]

To me the .308 remains a "Goldilocks" cartridge. Just right!

Best analogy for the .308 I’ve seen! Love it!

 

[Fastrig]

.300WM is a great plains cartridge but not great in the bush country. .338WM is similar to 9.3x62 (hand loaded, not commercial). As with the .308 , the .338WM gives a lot of punch out of a compact platform, and the long for calibre bullets fly and penetrate very well. With heavy bullets it is capable of taking buffalo and even elephant reliably - albeit not legal for that purpose in quite a few African countries. A little known fact is that it outperforms .375H&H at ranges exceeding 100m due to greater retained energies. It also shoots flat enough for use in desert and mountainous terrain , especially with bullets in the 200gr class. Recoil is also not severe in a properly built rifle of reasonable weight. I have used one extensively on a wide variety of game in all sorts of African terrain for +/- 20 years now. IMO its the best all-round African Plains game cartridge (and there are many who share this view). Having said that, its in a completely different class to either the .308Win or the .30-06 , so a bit off piste for this thread.

338WM is a great round for big bears here in the States but outside of that the 300WM is more than enough rifle. Now that I have a 9.3x62 I’d rather use that for bear hunts, great round.