3.5 12ga vs big bore rifle

[Luvthunt]

As to the restrictions on the tight turkey chokes, I use a .640, as I grew older I felt I needed better sights so put a red dot on my shorty and found much better centering.

 

[BeeMaa]

As to the restrictions on the tight turkey chokes, I use a .640, as I grew older I felt I needed better sights so put a red dot on my shorty and found much better centering.

Had one on my SBE2 and it went to crap (maybe from the recoil) after just one season in the field. It was a Vortex so I wasn't overly surprised. My biggest problem was getting the optic off so I could confirm the iron sights and hunt the following morning.

If I were to do it again I'd opt for an AimPoint or Trijicon on such a high recoiling firearm. Which one did you decide on?

PS - I just looked up my Carlson's Federal Heavyweight TSS Turkey choke and it's .650" diameter for a 12 bore. I've never seen a .640" on a 12 bore. What choke are you using?

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

He is also switching his turkey gun to a Browning Cynergy Wicked Wing that has 3.5" chambers so he can use two different chokes. One for under 40 yards, one for beyond that.

I’ve been thinking of this switch myself. A 3.5” Turkey Load out of an O/U is way more punishing than my 375H&H. I think it’s on par with the 458WM

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

BeeMaa, I will never need to read an another article about TSS or ever watch a video about TSS shot because YOU have tested it more extensively then NASSA tested the Space Shuttle....PLUS You almost have me convinced to try a box - quite an accomplishment because I’m very set-in-my-ways. Now, “note” I said TRYa box and Not “Buy” a box. See, i’m Buying a new car this year and need to make some financial choices ie: New Car or box of TSS?? (Cost is similar). Years ago I thought I had the best Turkey load with 12ga Winchester 3” copper plated #4s 1 7/8s oz. Then around 2010 I used 12ga Remington Wingmaster HD 3” #4s 1 5/8s Hevi Shot. That load killed gobblers at 55, 57, and 58 yrds for me — using IM choke in SBE. Those loads were $25 per 10 rounds but later discontinued so I bought some over the internet and paid $45 a box plus shipping - liked them that much and thought they were “magic” and worth the price.....good for Fox & Coyote too out to 50 yrds. So, I understand “dedication & loyalty” to a favored round. Now, your results “prove” there is a better load out there - for Turkey’s and predators anyway....I’m actually disappointed ...thought I already had the “perfect load”! Like said - I might try it, will have to find a live round “in the woods, on the ground somewhere” because $15-$18 a round exceeds my ability to rationalize (but I’m getting close). After all, I only shoot 1-2 rounds a year at Gobblers and the same or less calling for Coyote. For waterfowl - Not there yet and even cheap crappy Steel Shot is plenty good enough to fill duck/goose limits for me.... But you are slowly-Slowly changing my thinking on TSS for those “one or two shots a Season” where only the BEST will do. Regards, Merry Christmas !!

Think about it this way … the ammo is the only thing that actually touches the animal ensuring it’s killed. Why cheap out and not buy the best you can in that department, especially if a 5rd box is going to last you 2 years. I’ve easily spent more on TSS for 1 range session than I spent on the gun ($200 used Mossberg 835).

 

[BeeMaa]

I’ve been thinking of this switch myself. A 3.5” Turkey Load out of an O/U is way more punishing than my 375H&H. I think it’s on par with the 458WM

Biggest centerfire rifle I've owned is a 416RM, so I wouldn't know. The O/U with the turkey load I didn't find that bad...so maybe I could handle a 458WM or LOTT.

I'll be going to a friends house in the country where we do our turkey hunting to take care of clearing trails and stuff like that this upcoming February. We also do pattern testing at that time so we aren't having to deal with it just before the hunt.

Maybe I can make a video of shooting my friends O/U and my Benelli for a comparison.

 

[Luvthunt]

Had one on my SBE2 and it went to crap (maybe from the recoil) after just one season in the field. It was a Vortex so I wasn't overly surprised. My biggest problem was getting the optic off so I could confirm the iron sights and hunt the following morning.

If I were to do it again I'd opt for an AimPoint or Trijicon on such a high recoiling firearm. Which one did you decide on?

PS - I just looked up my Carlson's Federal Heavyweight TSS Turkey choke and it's .650" diameter for a 12 bore. I've never seen a .640" on a 12 bore. What choke are you using?

BeeMaa
Aimpoint early but switched to a Trijicon RMR because of size. Hasting chokes with the Mossburg 500 threading. But I do have a Hastings .640 with Rem threading for an 18” barrel 870. Never used it for turkey tho.
Did run a Leupold fixed 21/2 fixed power on one of my shortys for a few years and then to the RMR. No reason for change as I liked the little scope. I would watch the bird coming in and even with that little magnification I could watch his eye(s) and beakworking.

 

[HankBuck]

Think about it this way … the ammo is the only thing that actually touches the animal ensuring it’s killed. Why cheap out and not buy the best you can in that department, especially if a 5rd box is going to last you 2 years. I’ve easily spent more on TSS for 1 range session than I spent on the gun ($200 used Mossberg 835).

Mtn Infantry “why cheap out and Not but the Best box of ammo”? Well, I’ve Never had the need for another ammo - the Hevi Shot is 14 for 14 on Gobblers out to 58 yrds, never missed one, never wounded/never lost one. I’m not sure how I could improve on that? I admit my pet turkey load will Not Win a “patterning contest” vs. TSS - But I’m Not in a Patterning Contest. Although I might have to pass up a Gobbler at 70 yrds - he’ll just have Longer Spurs next year! And with the money I’ve saved - bought a New Ram pick up truck AND Caesar Guerini Summit Sporting !!

 

[BeeMaa]

Mtn Infantry “why cheap out and Not but the Best box of ammo”? Well, I’ve Never had the need for another ammo - the Hevi Shot is 14 for 14 on Gobblers out to 58 yrds, never missed one, never wounded/never lost one. I’m not sure how I could improve on that? I admit my pet turkey load will Not Win a “patterning contest” vs. TSS - But I’m Not in a Patterning Contest. Although I might have to pass up a Gobbler at 70 yrds - he’ll just have Longer Spurs next year! And with the money I’ve saved - bought a New Ram pick up truck AND Caesar Guerini Summit Sporting !!

I’m gonna have to check out the new CG Summit.

 

[archer36]

I had an identical Browning Cynergy and shot it with these same 3.5" turkey loads, no worse than my Benelli SBE3. I wouldn't hesitate to use an O/U for turkey hunting where different loads and/or chokes might be needed. Being able to change your pattern with the flick of a switch is a great option to have.

The Cynergy is a half pound heavier sporting the extra barrel which helps soak up some of the recoil. I sold that shotgun to another member here because I couldn't get it to fit me properly. I could hit everything but the clays I was trying to. I didn't keep any of the pattern sheets, but I recall they were quite good out to 60 yards with a turkey choke.

Well you comparing it to another super hard recoiling gun. The first SBE, 's had brutal recoil. A gas operated semi auto like a Beretta makes a world of difference but still pretty stiff.

 

[Luvthunt]

For my way of thinking there are at least two types of folks in this hunting buisness and they are shooters and hunters. Shooters seek ways to kill at distances that circumvent methods to get an animal in close range. Hunters live by one axiom get as close as you can and then get 10 yds closer.
Me, I was hunting long before TSS or 31/2 mags in shotguns or magnum rifles were being marketed. So distance from final target was mandated, in most cases by the action of the hunter. I worked hard at learning turkey, goose, duck,and elk calling and then even harder putting them into practice.
I do not judge which is the right way or the only way but realize that we are all products of a time, expierence and environment.
I love it when a bird or bull hangs up out of range as it tells me I have an expierenced animal and he has thrown the gauntlet so to speak. For me to win he will die and I cannot, in good faith, always feel positive about outcomes. But I am a hunter.

 

[HankBuck]

I’m gonna have to check out the new CG Summit.

BeeMaa, My Son just got the Summit 3 barrel set 32” (Wedding gift from Wife), she also has 12 ga 30” “Julia”, and a friend just bought 12 ga Summit limited 32” barrels.....I Shot the 12 ga limited and liked it - a little lighter then my Browning 12 ga 425 30” and felt “less clunky”, the main difference was a better trigger - crisp and not sloppy like the Browning. I’ve been considering getting one and for $4800 they are only about $1000 more then a Browning and maybe a “1/2 step above” in quality....although ve always been pleased with Browning O/Us and put well ver 50,000 rounds thru a couple. Caesar customer service is outstanding as is their warranty. Will I shoot it any better then my Browning’s ? Hope so but doubtful.

 

[62flint]

For my way of thinking there are at least two types of folks in this hunting buisness and they are shooters and hunters. Shooters seek ways to kill at distances that circumvent methods to get an animal in close range. Hunters live by one axiom get as close as you can and then get 10 yds closer.
Me, I was hunting long before TSS or 31/2 mags in shotguns or magnum rifles were being marketed. So distance from final target was mandated, in most cases by the action of the hunter. I worked hard at learning turkey, goose, duck,and elk calling and then even harder putting them into practice.
I do not judge which is the right way or the only way but realize that we are all products of a time, expierence and environment.
I love it when a bird or bull hangs up out of range as it tells me I have an expierenced animal and he has thrown the gauntlet so to speak. For me to win he will die and I cannot, in good faith, always feel positive about outcomes. But I am a hunter.

I agree.
I have killed a awful lot of turkeys with low brass 7.5 squirrel hunting when I was a boy.
Need to find the picture but a couple years ago I shot a 22 pounder with a 62cal / 20ga smoothbore flintlock with no choke.
75gr of 2f goex and 1oz of 7.5.
I have a gobbling thunder tube and few other really tight chokes.
I have grown to prefer a modified tube.

 

[Ruraldoc]

If this is now a turkey gun thread, I recommend Sumtoy chokes.

They will talk to you on the phone and make specific recommendations based on your exact gun and the load you’re using.

If the choke your using does not perform, they will allow you to swap until you find what you’re looking for.

I also recommend Apex shot shells with their TSS shot.

The Apex shells have consistently outperformed Federal TSS in 12,16 ,and 20 gauge loads for me.

In 12 Gauge I no longer use 3.5 inch shells because the 3 inch Apex loads in the Sumtoy chokes are deadly out to 70 yards which is far enough. In 20 gauge the Apex loads and Sumtoy chokes are 60 yard killers.

Also these are not the tightest Sumtoy chokes but are designed to give a 10 inch pattern at 25 yards so I don’t miss them up close.

I have tried a lot of different choke tubes and loads to come to these conclusions. An ideal pattern from 20-60 or 70 yards is better than one that is only good once you get to 40 and beyond.

I missed too many turkeys up close to want anything tighter and the pattern density of TSS shot in 8/9 or 9 makes the pattern deadly out past 50 yards.

I have used the Sumtoy chokes in 20 gauge in my 870 youth model as well as a Franchi .

In 12 gauge I’ve used Sumtoy chokes in Beretta and Benelli shotguns.

Most other choke companies will not allow you to exchange chokes until you find the perfect one for your gun and load. This plus the personalized advice really helps you find what works for you.

 

[BeeMaa]

@Luvthunt & @62flint - Yeah, it's about the distance...but only because it's a byproduct of how TSS flies. The devastation and violence it brings to birds is absolutely amazing. Watching this happen for the first time is a game changer. If you haven't, it's a leap of faith until you do.

I'll put it this way. Turkey shot with copper coated lead at 40 yards would fall over but probably not be dead. Most likely just stand on the neck for a few minutes and it's over. Same turkey shot with TSS at 50 yards is knocked off its feet, wings flop for a minute but the head is never coming back up. Stone dead by the time you get to the bird.

There are no "magic" bullets out there, shot placement and proper practice trump everything. However I would say that TSS offers a more humane harvest vs anything else at the same distance.

 

[Captain David newlin]

I am a newbie here to africa hunting. I looked through the search feature but did not find what I was looking for .
Went this past July with my daughter. Well now I am hooked and we are planning on a return trip in 2025 for buff and a few plains game.
Here is my question, Never having shot a big bore safari type rifle. How does the recoil compare to say a 3 1/2 in heavy 12ga load? Those I have shot a bunch. I am thinking about getting a win m70 in 375 but see quite a few in 416 or even 458win. But I really like a nice double shotgun,,, and a double rifle is a pretty thing....
sorry back to the recoil.

Recoil of a heavy loaded.3.5 12ga. Is much worse than a 375 but it is not a 458. Recoil of the big calibers is quite a bit worse.

 

[geopat]

A few years ago I got the bug for a large caliber rifle.
I decided to try the Mossberg .375 Ruger.
It was accurate enough but so light that it kicked like the proverbial Russian mule.
I really wanted a left hand bolt so I took the plunge and purchased a Ruger 77 lh in.375 Ruger. I love this gun!
However I ended up adding a Ruger No. 1 in.375 H&H. Much to my billfolds detriment, I love to shoot both and do way to much.
Recoil is more shove than slap like I have experienced with numerous smaller calibers especially 30-06 ouches.
You just have to learn to lean into the rifle.
NEVER lean back! You have nowhere to go to absorb the recoil so you take it all in a very short thump
As for comparison to a Goose load the goose load is probably harder in a fixed action shotgun than ether of my .375s.
Hunting:
I took my first Safari to South Africa last year.
I had to finish of my Sable due to a poor first shot on my part. I couldn’t see through the scope at close range so I just pointed and fired without putting the stock to my shoulder.
I sort of remember for just a second that my left hand felt a little slap.

 

[geopat]

I agree.
I have killed a awful lot of turkeys with low brass 7.5 squirrel hunting when I was a boy.
Need to find the picture but a couple years ago I shot a 22 pounder with a 62cal / 20ga smoothbore flintlock with no choke.
75gr of 2f goex and 1oz of 7.5.
I have a gobbling thunder tube and few other really tight chokes.
I have grown to prefer a modified tube.

Killed my last turkey with a bow‍

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

For my way of thinking there are at least two types of folks in this hunting buisness and they are shooters and hunters. Shooters seek ways to kill at distances that circumvent methods to get an animal in close range. Hunters live by one axiom get as close as you can and then get 10 yds closer.
Me, I was hunting long before TSS or 31/2 mags in shotguns or magnum rifles were being marketed. So distance from final target was mandated, in most cases by the action of the hunter. I worked hard at learning turkey, goose, duck,and elk calling and then even harder putting them into practice.
I do not judge which is the right way or the only way but realize that we are all products of a time, expierence and environment.
I love it when a bird or bull hangs up out of range as it tells me I have an expierenced animal and he has thrown the gauntlet so to speak. For me to win he will die and I cannot, in good faith, always feel positive about outcomes. But I am a hunter.

I completely understand what you’re saying. I like to bow hunt for the up close and personal. Why even use a gun at that point if that’s the arguement?

If I’m using a gun to hunt, I want to know it’s dying as quick and humane as possible, or I messed up. TSS kills way quicker and humanely. IMO there’s no such thing as overkill (unless I’ve ruined the meat or a majority of it). When it comes to big game, I prefer the two extremes; up close and personal, or extreme distance. That’s where I find the challenge in my skills.

 

[jlb1036]

FOR YOUR FIRST BUFFALO GUN YOU CANNOT GO WORNG WITH A WELL BALANCED 8.5LBS BOLT ACTION 375 H/H AND 300 GRS REMEMBER IS ABOUT SHOT PLACEMENT SO PUT A GOOD QUALITY SCOPE AND PRACTICE OFF HAND SHOTS AT 50 AND 75 YRDS WITH WORKING THE BOLT ACTION AND RELOADING IT AS WELL YOU WILL NOT BE SORRY .

 

[colorado]

FOR YOUR FIRST BUFFALO GUN YOU CANNOT GO WORNG WITH A WELL BALANCED 8.5LBS BOLT ACTION 375 H/H AND 300 GRS REMEMBER IS ABOUT SHOT PLACEMENT SO PUT A GOOD QUALITY SCOPE AND PRACTICE OFF HAND SHOTS AT 50 AND 75 YRDS WITH WORKING THE BOLT ACTION AND RELOADING IT AS WELL YOU WILL NOT BE SORRY .

Agree 100%