3.5 12ga vs big bore rifle

[HankBuck]

Federals 1 1/4 3” will kill most animals on N. American continent. Remington did market a 3” 1 3/8 load with an advertised vel. of 1600 fps. They were called Buckhammers.

Luv hunt, I used the Remington Buckhammers exclusively for many years in both 12 and 20 gauge - always 2 3/4” and found them very accurate (for slugs) 2 1/2”-3” MOA out to 100 yrds - despite their “beer can shape”. The 12 ga threw an 1 1/4 oz of lead @ 1500 fps so penetration was always excellent and usually left two-Big-holes for an easy blood trail to follow. Although discontinued - I stocked up and still have 20 boxes n each gauge.....I liked them that much ! You can still sometimes find them for sale on line on GB

 

[Luvthunt]

Luv hunt, I used the Remington Buckhammers exclusively for many years in both 12 and 20 gauge - always 2 3/4” and found them very accurate (for slugs) 2 1/2”-3” MOA out to 100 yrds - despite their “beer can shape”. The 12 ga threw an 1 1/4 oz of lead @ 1500 fps so penetration was always excellent and usually left two-Big-holes for an easy blood trail to follow. Although discontinued - I stocked up and still have 20 boxes n each gauge.....I liked them that much ! You can still sometimes find them for sale on line on GB

Always used the 3” 12 ga myself. But yes two big holes (in and out) and in most cases if in the chest cavity it was DRT.
As you I still have some left . But will say the Federal 1 1/4 3” does the same job. Out of an 18” 870 it will get your attention when sighting in.

 

[archer36]

Federals 1 1/4 3” will kill most animals on N. American continent. Remington did market a 3” 1 3/8 load with an advertised vel. of 1600 fps. They were called Buckhammers.

They kicked like a mule!

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

My style of turkey hunting is run an gun, therefore weight is important to me. Back in the 60s my turkey gun was an 870 3” mag with a 30 in v rib barrel. Next bought an Ithaca 10 ga mag. As my calling improved I realized I was over gunned at least to weight. So on one of my trips I found a NEF single barrel and as I looked it over the thought came to me that I could cot the barrel to 18” have it threaded and try different screw in chokes. Around that the Hastings chokes of .640 gave me the best pattern at 40 yds. Used Federal copper plated 2 1/4 #6 shot. Gun weighs about 5 pounds or less (no scale) Only change I ever made was I bought a 3 1/2 NEF years later and had the same mod done to it. It patterned about the same.
For me when I have a bird in range I never feel the recoil.
People laugh at my gun but they don’t laugh at my turkey spur necklace.
My 375 HH felt recoil appears to be less, same with a 416 Rigby but will say, for what it is worth, the 458 Lott Is getting up there.
If you shoot enough and concentrate your mind on the animal recoil is an after thought. If you even remember it.

If you haven’t already you need to mess around with the Stevens 301 Turkey in .410 and shoot the Federal TSS #9’s. You’ll have a 40-50yd gun that weighs next to nothing.

I hunt similarly to you and my go to gun is an old beat-up 835 that’s cutdown shooting 3.5’s or the 301 in .410. I’m probably going to add a 301 in 20ga one of these days.

 

[archer36]

If you haven’t already you need to mess around with the Stevens 301 Turkey in .410 and shoot the Federal TSS #9’s. You’ll have a 40-50yd gun that weighs next to nothing.

I hunt similarly to you and my go to gun is an old beat-up 835 that’s cutdown shooting 3.5’s or the 301 in .410. I’m probably going to add a 301 in 20ga one of these days.

Yes. Heavy Shot has changed the game. No need for 10 gauge 3.5" turkey loads any more. They are expensive though. I can see spending $10 on one shell for turkey but, I wouldn't use them on high volume hunts for waterfowl. The large steel shot is much more economical.

 

[Luvthunt]

Have not shot anything with the #9 TSS but the patterning is better at 40 yds then anything I have ever seen. Too late in the game for me to make a change but did have me think on it. That 410 is just not going to be that much lighter then the old tried and true.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Have not shot anything with the #9 TSS but the patterning is better at 40 yds then anything I have ever seen. Too late in the game for me to make a change but did have me think on it. That 410 is just not going to be that much lighter then the old tried and true.

My .410 with a red dot and loaded, is coming in under 5lbs. A lot of your weight savings is because of your 18” barrel length compared to the 26” barrel on that 410. Given your style of hunting that 18” barrel has to be really handy. I kinda wish my 410 had about a 20” barrel.

I’ve seen TSS Patterns at 80yds that are better than what a lot of people were getting at 40yds back in the day.

 

[BeeMaa]

My .410 with a red dot and loaded, is coming in under 5lbs. A lot of your weight savings is because of your 18” barrel length compared to the 26” barrel on that 410. Given your style of hunting that 18” barrel has to be really handy. I kinda wish my 410 had about a 20” barrel.

I’ve seen TSS Patterns at 80yds that are better than what a lot of people were getting at 40yds back in the day.

Here's 60 yards...

If I go beyond 60, I have to start holding over the target and pay close attention to the wind because it will significantly shift the POI. When 40 yards was the max I thought I'd never need more until I started seeing turkey hang up at 50 and not want to get any closer. I'd say 60-70 is my max with this load and considering it's stretched the distance more than a 50% than copper plated lead, it's worth the price.

I've dropped a Canada goose (when on the water they have a very similar anatomy to turkey) stone dead at 70 yards, confirmed with a laser rangefinder. Here's the link to that post...
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/usa-early-season-fall-goose-hunt-in-ny.70719/post-963005

 

[Luvthunt]

My .410 with a red dot and loaded, is coming in under 5lbs. A lot of your weight savings is because of your 18” barrel length compared to the 26” barrel on that 410. Given your style of hunting that 18” barrel has to be really handy. I kinda wish my 410 had about a 20” barrel.

I’ve seen TSS Patterns at 80yds that are better than what a lot of people were getting at 40yds back in the day.

My hunting partner bought one a couple years and we patterned it with #9s. Cannot agree with you guys more. The pattern at 40 on a turkey head/ neck target was almost solid coverage. We did not go beyond 60 yds but if the energy is there at 60 no bird will survive bar shooter error.
Yes my wt is because of the short barrel.

 

[Scott CWO]

Thanks guys, I will keep looking for a 375HH . They just seem to be eluding me local and I do not want to ship one in yet. I have ran across a few 416rem and a 458wm on the shelf. I knew the 458 was more than I need. But it sure is pretty at a good price.

I happen to know of a great shooting Kimber Caprivi 375 right now. It’s in the classifieds here on AH.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Here's 60 yards...
View attachment 576375

If I go beyond 60, I have to start holding over the target and pay close attention to the wind because it will significantly shift the POI. When 40 yards was the max I thought I'd never need more until I started seeing turkey hang up at 50 and not want to get any closer. I'd say 60-70 is my max with this load and considering it's stretched the distance more than a 50% than copper plated lead, it's worth the price.

I've dropped a Canada goose (when on the water they have a very similar anatomy to turkey) stone dead at 70 yards, confirmed with a laser rangefinder. Here's the link to that post...
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/usa-early-season-fall-goose-hunt-in-ny.70719/post-963005

If you haven't you should test the straight 9's and the 8/10 combo load. Looks like your pattern spreads a little low and right, but could've been how you were aiming/shooting that day. Did you take multiple shots?

My SEB2 patterns very similar as yours, but when I tried the trusty ole 835 that had been sitting in the closet I was blown away with the difference. This forced me down the rabbit hole of aftermarket chokes Jebbs, Indian Creek, Carlson, Rhino, Longbeard, Jellyhead, etc. This is where I started to really see the difference and was consistently trying to find better. I'd hate to know how much money I spent over the years on TSS and chokes just patterning. Less than 40yds and I feel like I'm shooting a slug because my pattern is so dense.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

My hunting partner bought one a couple years and we patterned it with #9s. Cannot agree with you guys more. The pattern at 40 on a turkey head/ neck target was almost solid coverage. We did not go beyond 60 yds but if the energy is there at 60 no bird will survive bar shooter error.
Yes my wt is because of the short barrel.

I know of numerous bids killed at 70-80yds with a 20ga, and a bunch of birds at 80+yds with a 12ga, including a few at over 100yds. One of the 100+ yd birds was by catch from a bird in that 60-70yd range. I wouldn't advocate for shots like that to be taken but know of several instances its happened.

 

[BeeMaa]

If you haven't you should test the straight 9's and the 8/10 combo load. Looks like your pattern spreads a little low and right, but could've been how you were aiming/shooting that day. Did you take multiple shots?

My SEB2 patterns very similar as yours, but when I tried the trusty ole 835 that had been sitting in the closet I was blown away with the difference. This forced me down the rabbit hole of aftermarket chokes Jebbs, Indian Creek, Carlson, Rhino, Longbeard, Jellyhead, etc. This is where I started to really see the difference and was consistently trying to find better. I'd hate to know how much money I spent over the years on TSS and chokes just patterning. Less than 40yds and I feel like I'm shooting a slug because my pattern is so dense.

Friend of mine missed a bird because his pattern was too tight at 30 yards. More like a rifle at that distance with a .670 TKY constriction for a 12 bore and #7 TSS. No worries, it ran away to 45 yards where he dumped it tail over teacup with the second shot.

I'll check out the #9's and see how they pattern but with my ammo locker full of #7's I'm not likely to make a move at the moment. Plus, testing from the bench just sucks.

The bonus is that I can use #7's for goose at long distance as well. Not sure #9's have the energy at that distance.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Friend of mine missed a bird because his pattern was too tight at 30 yards. More like a rifle at that distance with a .670 TKY constriction for a 12 bore and #7 TSS. No worries, it ran away to 45 yards where he dumped it tail over teacup with the second shot.

I'll check out the #9's and see how they pattern but with my ammo locker full of #7's I'm not likely to make a move at the moment. Plus, testing from the bench just sucks.

The bonus is that I can use #7's for goose at long distance as well. Not sure #9's have the energy at that distance.

I’ve seen/heard that happen before. Actually happened to a buddy with his 20ga and he folded it at 70ish yards running away not realizing how far it was.

For double duty you’ve probably got the best choice. I understand the ammo situation. I’ve got a lot of ammo for certain calibers/gauges and it impacts what I’m buying gun wise, what I start testing with, what I use for range sessions, etc.

 

[BeeMaa]

I’ve seen/heard that happen before. Actually happened to a buddy with his 20ga and he folded it at 70ish yards running away not realizing how far it was.

For double duty you’ve probably got the best choice. I understand the ammo situation. I’ve got a lot of ammo for certain calibers/gauges and it impacts what I’m buying gun wise, what I start testing with, what I use for range sessions, etc.

He is also switching his turkey gun to a Browning Cynergy Wicked Wing that has 3.5" chambers so he can use two different chokes. One for under 40 yards, one for beyond that.

 

[HankBuck]

Here's 60 yards...
View attachment 576375

If I go beyond 60, I have to start holding over the target and pay close attention to the wind because it will significantly shift the POI. When 40 yards was the max I thought I'd never need more until I started seeing turkey hang up at 50 and not want to get any closer. I'd say 60-70 is my max with this load and considering it's stretched the distance more than a 50% than copper plated lead, it's worth the price.

I've dropped a Canada goose (when on the water they have a very similar anatomy to turkey) stone dead at 70 yards, confirmed with a laser rangefinder. Here's the link to that post...
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/usa-early-season-fall-goose-hunt-in-ny.70719/post-963005

BeeMaa, I will never need to read an another article about TSS or ever watch a video about TSS shot because YOU have tested it more extensively then NASSA tested the Space Shuttle....PLUS You almost have me convinced to try a box - quite an accomplishment because I’m very set-in-my-ways. Now, “note” I said TRYa box and Not “Buy” a box. See, i’m Buying a new car this year and need to make some financial choices ie: New Car or box of TSS?? (Cost is similar). Years ago I thought I had the best Turkey load with 12ga Winchester 3” copper plated #4s 1 7/8s oz. Then around 2010 I used 12ga Remington Wingmaster HD 3” #4s 1 5/8s Hevi Shot. That load killed gobblers at 55, 57, and 58 yrds for me — using IM choke in SBE. Those loads were $25 per 10 rounds but later discontinued so I bought some over the internet and paid $45 a box plus shipping - liked them that much and thought they were “magic” and worth the price.....good for Fox & Coyote too out to 50 yrds. So, I understand “dedication & loyalty” to a favored round. Now, your results “prove” there is a better load out there - for Turkey’s and predators anyway....I’m actually disappointed ...thought I already had the “perfect load”! Like said - I might try it, will have to find a live round “in the woods, on the ground somewhere” because $15-$18 a round exceeds my ability to rationalize (but I’m getting close). After all, I only shoot 1-2 rounds a year at Gobblers and the same or less calling for Coyote. For waterfowl - Not there yet and even cheap crappy Steel Shot is plenty good enough to fill duck/goose limits for me.... But you are slowly-Slowly changing my thinking on TSS for those “one or two shots a Season” where only the BEST will do. Regards, Merry Christmas !!

 

[archer36]

He is also switching his turkey gun to a Browning Cynergy Wicked Wing that has 3.5" chambers so he can use two different chokes. One for under 40 yards, one for beyond that.

A double gun's recoil will be brutal with 3.5" turkey loads. I would opt for a combination of lead and tss in 3". As mentioned, lead with more open choke for close shots and tss with tighter choke for long shots. You have everything covered.

 

[Philip Glass]

I am a newbie here to africa hunting. I looked through the search feature but did not find what I was looking for .
Went this past July with my daughter. Well now I am hooked and we are planning on a return trip in 2025 for buff and a few plains game.
Here is my question, Never having shot a big bore safari type rifle. How does the recoil compare to say a 3 1/2 in heavy 12ga load? Those I have shot a bunch. I am thinking about getting a win m70 in 375 but see quite a few in 416 or even 458win. But I really like a nice double shotgun,,, and a double rifle is a pretty thing....
sorry back to the recoil.

It is hard to compare the two. The best thing to do is find an AH'er in your area and meet at the range and shoot some guns. Most any of us are willing to help a newbie!

 

[BeeMaa]

A double gun's recoil will be brutal with 3.5" turkey loads. I would opt for a combination of lead and tss in 3". As mentioned, lead with more open choke for close shots and tss with tighter choke for long shots. You have everything covered.

I had an identical Browning Cynergy and shot it with these same 3.5" turkey loads, no worse than my Benelli SBE3. I wouldn't hesitate to use an O/U for turkey hunting where different loads and/or chokes might be needed. Being able to change your pattern with the flick of a switch is a great option to have.

The Cynergy is a half pound heavier sporting the extra barrel which helps soak up some of the recoil. I sold that shotgun to another member here because I couldn't get it to fit me properly. I could hit everything but the clays I was trying to. I didn't keep any of the pattern sheets, but I recall they were quite good out to 60 yards with a turkey choke.

 

[BeeMaa]

BeeMaa, I will never need to read an another article about TSS or ever watch a video about TSS shot because YOU have tested it more extensively then NASSA tested the Space Shuttle....PLUS You almost have me convinced to try a box - quite an accomplishment because I’m very set-in-my-ways. Now, “note” I said TRYa box and Not “Buy” a box. See, i’m Buying a new car this year and need to make some financial choices ie: New Car or box of TSS?? (Cost is similar). Years ago I thought I had the best Turkey load with 12ga Winchester 3” copper plated #4s 1 7/8s oz. Then around 2010 I used 12ga Remington Wingmaster HD 3” #4s 1 5/8s Hevi Shot. That load killed gobblers at 55, 57, and 58 yrds for me — using IM choke in SBE. Those loads were $25 per 10 rounds but later discontinued so I bought some over the internet and paid $45 a box plus shipping - liked them that much and thought they were “magic” and worth the price.....good for Fox & Coyote too out to 50 yrds. So, I understand “dedication & loyalty” to a favored round. Now, your results “prove” there is a better load out there - for Turkey’s and predators anyway....I’m actually disappointed ...thought I already had the “perfect load”! Like said - I might try it, will have to find a live round “in the woods, on the ground somewhere” because $15-$18 a round exceeds my ability to rationalize (but I’m getting close). After all, I only shoot 1-2 rounds a year at Gobblers and the same or less calling for Coyote. For waterfowl - Not there yet and even cheap crappy Steel Shot is plenty good enough to fill duck/goose limits for me.... But you are slowly-Slowly changing my thinking on TSS for those “one or two shots a Season” where only the BEST will do. Regards, Merry Christmas !!

Meet me at Bull Run and I'm sure we can work out some way for you "aquire" a few of these TSS loads for testing. But first we will need to discuss what shotgun and choke combination you are running.

Happy Christmas my friend.