3.5 12ga vs big bore rifle

[HankBuck]

I would say a 3.5" 12 gauge from a 6.5lb shotgun is probably the equivalent of a modest load from a .416 class rifle... definitely less than a .458 IMO

Chris, I’m certain that my 12ga 3 1/2” Mossberg 835 Ultimate mag - recoils far more then my .375 H&H - loads i’ve Shot (and been bruised) include 12ga 31/2” 21/4oz Turkey loads and 31/2” slugs. My Mossberg weighs approximately 71/2lbs, is pump action and with 31/2” loads is the hardest kicking shotgun I’ve ever fired - exceeds my .375 H&H and just below my .470 NE double rifle. It is so unpleasant to shoot that I’ve limited it to 23/4” & 3” shells and use only as a “back up shotgun” in the event one of my others breaks or gets stolen..... I’ve killed deer with it using 3” 00 buck (knocks deer off their feet inside 30 yards) but never tried the 31/2” buckshot loads - because I’d likely be “Off My Feet” and spitting out teeth!
For all that recoil the 3 or 31/2” shells have no more killing power then 23/4”....just more pellets and denser pattern - not worth the punishment to my shoulder or jaw. Regarding slugs, any 12 ga 1 Oz or 1 1/4 oz Slug that’s “accurate” will create the same size hole, wound channel, penetration - they all act like a “Beer Can” going through a deer....plenty of killing power. However, I would never consider hunting Cape Buffalo or any DG with a Shotgun Slug —- they are Not equivalent to a .375 H&H and will not penetrate as well. I have minimal experience shooting African DG but extensive (over 75+) deer with shotgun using buckshot & slugs. Given the choice I’d always pick a good rifle.

 

[BeeMaa]

3.5" waterfowl loads aren't bad but 2.25 oz turkey loads are brutal out of my rem super mag. Fast, bruise inducing recoil in a 7.5 lb gun with a crappy butt pad. Those loads require a 9.5 lb gun at least.

9.5 lbs for a shotgun is unacceptable for my needs of having to carry it with all my other turkey (or any other hunting) gear. For the number of shots fired at game (and targets), the 7 lb SBE3 is perfect for me.

For goose season in September 2023 there was one young guy hunting with us that had an older steel receiver shotgun that he was having a hell of a time carrying out of the field. For the walk back to the trucks, I gave him the decoys I was carrying in exchange for the shotgun he had. After the two mile hike back to the truck I made the decision that I had been bamboozled into lugging a boat anchor the distance. As a side note, hunting with the young guy a couple of days later he had a SBE3 instead of that steel club. We were both much happier.

Also want to mention that heavy recoil is NOT for everyone. Everyone has a limit and for some it's zero. I'm fortunate enough to have practiced enough to be able to concentrate on the game and not concern myself with the recoil most of the time. If I shot nothing but 2 1/4 oz turkey loads, it wouldn't be long before I tapped out. Normal duck, goose and pheasant loads I can shoot a couple of boxes with no problems. YMMV.

 

[Inline6]

Thanks guys, I will keep looking for a 375HH . They just seem to be eluding me local and I do not want to ship one in yet. I have ran across a few 416rem and a 458wm on the shelf. I knew the 458 was more than I need. But it sure is pretty at a good price.

I would not hesitate to get the 416REM. If it is more than you can handle then pursue the 375h&h. After some time with a 375h&h, you are going to question if you should step up to a caliber that starts with a 4. IMHO, you will read all the reports and wonder if it should start with a 6 lol. A 375h&h is a one gun solution, will handle anything on earth. We have choices and tolerance levels. Some can't handle a 30-06 much less a 375h&h. It sounds like you have a reasonably tolerance level. If you pick up a 416RM now and it is more than you can handle. You have 3 choices, keep it in hopes you can build up to it, trade it to someone for a 375h&h that wants to step up, or sell it. If you are getting it for a good price you will not loose money.

Good luck on your quest, the fun is just now starting. In 6 months to a year...you will be making post about which double should you buy. It is an interesting ride this forum.

 

[Ruraldoc]

I’ve shot lots of 3.5 inch tungsten 12 gauge loads testing choke tubes and patterns in 4 different turkey guns. They are pretty brutal.

My 375 Model 70 Alaskan is much more comfortable to shoot. My 416 Model 70 is more comfortable as well. I have been bruised when hunting with the turkey loads but never by my 416.

Recoil with my Brno 602 in 458 Lott is more comparable to a 3.5 inch Magnum with the heavy Tungsten loads.

I have not run the numbers on these, but am going on personal experience in terms of felt recoil.

 

[HankBuck]

9.5 lbs for a shotgun is unacceptable for my needs of having to carry it with all my other turkey (or any other hunting) gear. For the number of shots fired at game (and targets), the 7 lb SBE3 is perfect for me.

For goose season in September 2023 there was one young guy hunting with us that had an older steel receiver shotgun that he was having a hell of a time carrying out of the field. For the walk back to the trucks, I gave him the decoys I was carrying in exchange for the shotgun he had. After the two mile hike back to the truck I made the decision that I had been bamboozled into lugging a boat anchor the distance. As a side note, hunting with the young guy a couple of days later he had a SBE3 instead of that steel club. We were both much happier.

Also want to mention that heavy recoil is NOT for everyone. Everyone has a limit and for some it's zero. I'm fortunate enough to have practiced enough to be able to concentrate on the game and not concern myself with the recoil most of the time. If I shot nothing but 2 1/4 oz turkey loads, it wouldn't be long before I tapped out. Normal duck, goose and pheasant loads I can shoot a couple of boxes with no problems. YMMV.

BeeMaa, agree on “9.5 lb shotguns”, that’s more like a good workout at the Gym then an enjoyable hunt. If I’ve got to have a shotgun that heavy to mitigate my magnum loads & recoil —- I’m gonna drop down to standard hunting loads that “humans” can handle. Having hunted from the 1970s on (when 12 ga & 2 3/4” shells were the norm for ducks and geese) I’ve seen the 3” become the most popular when steel shot was introduced in the 1980s. Later, 1990s the 3 1/2” was introduced along with a renewed interest in the 10 gauge — all supposedly to counteract the ineffectiveness of Steel Shot. Now, with the vast improvement in metals: Tungston, Bismith, etc.. there are shells out there “better then lead” (and more expensive). These loads turn the 20 ga into effective waterfowl Guns. I wonder, if soon there will be 4” shells throwing 3oz of Shot ? To appeal to a New Generation of Hunters, where bigger & bigger is needed and spending $200 for a box os shells “acceptable”? Hope my Social Securty check increases accordingly - and I don’t break a hip firing those Bazooka’s !!

 

[Red Leg]

You do not need a rifle that has a chambering beginning with a 4. I own a .404, 500-416, and a .470. All are superb rifles. The only rifle I have taken to Africa for DG has been a .375 (three different ones ). Unless you decide to become a dedicated buffalo or elephant hunter, it is impossible to beat the versatility of a .375.

 

[Tex .416]

OP,

I started with a .375 Ruger in a relatively light Ruger rifle. After the first few shots, it was no big deal and kind of fun. I gifted it to a friend that wanted to use it on nilgai.

A couple of suggestions, start off with a lighter weight bullet until you are comfortable with it. Make sure to pull the rifle back firmly into the shoulder and lean forward from the waist. A loose hold allows the rifle to begin to accelerate rearward and get a running start and thereby hammer you, which is true even with smaller cartridges.

There is no need for trepidation. The real fear is draining the checking account once you see all the shiny bigger rifles you decide you just have to try next.

 

[Travis2282]

375 HH fells like a pussycat to me compared to a mossburg 835 with 3.5 in shells!

 

[Ruraldoc]

The mossberg 835 with 3.5 inch shells is the most vicious kicker I’ve ever shot.

My 470 double is much more pleasant.

The 835 weighs about 6.5 pounds and was traded away. My 9 pound 375 is so much easier to handle. My 10 pound 416 is not in the same league as those hard kicking 835s with 3.5 inch turkey loads.

 

[CJW]

9.5 lbs for a shotgun is unacceptable for my needs of having to carry it with all my other turkey (or any other hunting) gear. For the number of shots fired at game (and targets), the 7 lb SBE3 is perfect for me.

For goose season in September 2023 there was one young guy hunting with us that had an older steel receiver shotgun that he was having a hell of a time carrying out of the field. For the walk back to the trucks, I gave him the decoys I was carrying in exchange for the shotgun he had. After the two mile hike back to the truck I made the decision that I had been bamboozled into lugging a boat anchor the distance. As a side note, hunting with the young guy a couple of days later he had a SBE3 instead of that steel club. We were both much happier.

Also want to mention that heavy recoil is NOT for everyone. Everyone has a limit and for some it's zero. I'm fortunate enough to have practiced enough to be able to concentrate on the game and not concern myself with the recoil most of the time. If I shot nothing but 2 1/4 oz turkey loads, it wouldn't be long before I tapped out. Normal duck, goose and pheasant loads I can shoot a couple of boxes with no problems. YMMV.

No doubt that would be a burden to carry a long ways as well as decoys. The alternative for turkeys is of course using lighter loads or just taking the abuse in a lighter gun for one shot. I didn't notice the recoil when shooting at a turkey, even with those monsters. Patterning I did while sitting which was dumb.

 

[62flint]

No doubt that would be a burden to carry a long ways as well as decoys. The alternative for turkeys is of course using lighter loads or just taking the abuse in a lighter gun for one shot. I didn't notice the recoil when shooting at a turkey, even with those monsters. Patterning I did while sitting which was dumb.

A friend of mine bought a 835 and 3-1/2 inch turkey loads when they first came out.
He was sitting with his back to a fairly large oak when he touched off the 2oz plus load.
He walked out of the woods with his turkey and a bloody nose

 

[358 Norma]

I have found that the recoil of a three and a half inch turkey load far exceeds even that of my 470 Nitro double! When I ordered my 470 I wasn't sure if I'd made a mistake whether I could handle rhe recoil or not. So I decided to take my Browning Auto five three and a half inch out with turkey loads to get used to dealing with some heavy recoil, once my 470 got here I found that it was far more comfortable to shoot than the Browning with a heavy turkey load! I find that my Winchester, Ruger number one, and Dakota 76 all chambered 416 Remington mag are all much more comfortable to shoot than even a 3 inch turkey load off the bench. I say if you find a nice 416 Remington go ahead and buy it. The 416 Remington has all the benefits of the 375,without the heavy recoil the 458. If you can handle shooting three and a half inch turkey loads off the bench you'll have no problem with a 416 remington.

 

[TheSayHeyKid]

I know I respect the 3-1/2" #4 buck coyote loads coming out of my Benelli as much as I do sending one out of my .416 Rigby. Both will get your attention.

 

[Josh P]

Recently got my hands on a 10# 10ga o/u. 3.5" slugs were not as bad as I thought they were going to be. After shooting a CZ 550 in 458 Lott, I'm convinced that a lot of the hesitation when it comes to big bore rifles is in my head due to reading far more than shooting.

 

[375Fox]

I haven’t shot a mossberg in a long time, but they are brutal. The stock design doesn’t help at all. However, I can shoot a box of 3.5 shells at geese from my Beretta A400 or the Benelli SBE I use to have without issue that day or the next. A 375 H&H is easy to shoot. I think a 458 goes into a different class than both. I’m still learning to shoot my 450 Rigby. I’ve shot around 40 rounds now but only 3 at a time because that’s all I can handle and I can feel it the next day on my shoulder. I’ve never got a recoil headache from a shotgun but have from the fast loads in my 450. I have found the 550 gr bullets at 2100 fps are considerably more pleasant to shoot than the 500 gr bullets at 2400 fps. That rifle weighs just under 10 lbs. The velocity makes a big difference, especially in the barrel jump. A Turkey 10/12 ga load is the best comparison a 458 for someone who doesn’t know to understand, but I think it is much easier to shoot, especially in good semi-auto shotguns most of us use.

 

[BeeMaa]

I haven’t shot a mossberg in a long time, but they are brutal. The stock design doesn’t help at all. However, I can shoot a box of 3.5 shells at geese from my Beretta A400 or the Benelli SBE I use to have without issue that day or the next. A 375 H&H is easy to shoot. I think a 458 goes into a different class than both. I’m still learning to shoot my 450 Rigby. I’ve shot around 40 rounds now but only 3 at a time because that’s all I can handle and I can feel it the next day on my shoulder. I’ve never got a recoil headache from a shotgun but have from the fast loads in my 450. I have found the 550 gr bullets at 2100 fps are considerably more pleasant to shoot than the 500 gr bullets at 2400 fps. That rifle weighs just under 10 lbs. The velocity makes a big difference, especially in the barrel jump. A Turkey 10/12 ga load is the best comparison a 458 for someone who doesn’t know to understand, but I think it is much easier to shoot, especially in good semi-auto shotguns most of us use.

Apologies to the OP for the minor detour...

I've been shooting the Benelli SBE2 and SBE3 for a long time but recently tried the Beretta A400 Xtreme Plus w/ kickoff. The A400 is the absolute softest shooting shotgun EVER. If I wasn't so invested in the SBE, I'd switch. It's that good.

 

[375Fox]

Apologies to the OP for the minor detour...

I've been shooting the Benelli SBE2 and SBE3 for a long time but recently tried the Beretta A400 Xtreme Plus w/ kickoff. The A400 is the absolute softest shooting shotgun EVER. If I wasn't so invested in the SBE, I'd switch. It's that good.

It definitely wouldn’t be classic anymore, but would actually be really nice if some of the same recoil reduction technologies were put into heavy rifles. That kick off system makes a big difference in A400. I have a mercury recoil reducer in my rifle. I’m not sure if it really works or not but you can see the kick off system work just pushing it into your shoulder.

 

[Hillbilly Marine]

I have had two 3.5 inch 12 gauge magnums, and they both went away for two reasons. Both were pumps (one a Mossburg and the other was a Browning) and my arms were just to damn short for the operation and I could see nothing gained for the length and recoil. My .416 Rigby is much more forgiving on the shoulder than either of those shotguns.

 

[spike.t]

I have a Turkish akkar short barrel semi auto 12 bore....ìt has a marinised finish so thought would be good in the rains....hardly shot it, but decided I would try it with slugs to sort the iron sights out.....well let's just say I reckon its worse than my 9.5lbs 500 jeffery by a margin....so I don't think you will have any issues with a 416 let alone a 375...

 

[Slope77]

I have never fired a rifle larger than 338 but I have to agree on the vicious recoil in a Mossberg 835 with 2 1/4 ounce turkey loads. I decided there was no bird that needed that much killing.

Running it through a calculator, I am coming up with recoil energy in the low 70s. A 10lb 10 ga Browning BPS with similar loads, which the Hawks table puts at about 63 lbs recoil, is far more pleasant. The thin stock on the 835 didn’t help. My middle finger would bruise and hurt for several days from getting smashed by the trigger guard after a few shots.

It was useless to me and went down the road. I have other 12 gauges that I prefer to use with shorter shells.