1st rifle for grandson

[Charles de Ribeau]

This is totally off-topic. Please delete if it's not appropriate, but I really value the opinions of the people on this site.

My grandson is turning 12 next week, which means he'll be able to start hunting deer and elk. That means it's time for his first big game rifle. At the moment, he is a bit small for his age. So I think less recoil needs to be a priority in choice of caliber.

A muzzle break can certainly go a long way toward reducing recoil, but I also know that an excited teenager (almost) is apt to forget to use his ear protection. Hey, I still did that a few years ago! A brake isn't out of the question, but...

What caliber do you think would work well for him? Thanks.

 

[Hunt anything]

I started my daughter with a Ruger American In .308, she was 13 at the time. I also started with reduced recoil loads until it was time to go hunting. She handled the switch to 180 grain core loks with ease and has become an excellent shot.

 

[gillettehunter]

I would seriously consider a 7mm-08. If you reload the range of bullets normally available is extensive. Some yrs ago I shot one with 120 gr handloads when we were spotlighting. Recoil was mild. For elk run some 160 gr bullets in it. 120-140's will be fantastic for deer/pronghorn. It can be loaded down a bit for practice/varmints and loaded up for bigger animals. For a youngster its about ideal.
I thought about the various 6.5's, but really they are light for elk. The various .30 calibers would be heavier than what I'd consider except possibly a .308. Even that may have more recoil than what he'd like. 7X57 and the like are pretty similar to the 7mm-08, but ammo availability may be less. Good luck.
Bruce

 

[rookhawk]

This is totally off-topic. Please delete if it's not appropriate, but I really value the opinions of the people on this site.

My grandson is turning 12 next week, which means he'll be able to start hunting deer and elk. That means it's time for his first big game rifle. At the moment, he is a bit small for his age. So I think less recoil needs to be a priority in choice of caliber.

A muzzle break can certainly go a long way toward reducing recoil, but I also know that an excited teenager (almost) is apt to forget to use his ear protection. Hey, I still did that a few years ago! A brake isn't out of the question, but...

What caliber do you think would work well for him? Thanks.

Hi @Charles de Ribeau

You didn't mention where you live, but judging from where you've hunted, what you want to hunt, and your French name I'll assume you're North American and by the 12 year age to start hunting that you're Canadian?

I do not like buying junk. The reason I buy my kids $1000-$4000 rifles is because I'm poor, not rich. $300 rifles are throw away, $1000 rifles are forever. I cannot afford to buy anything that becomes worthless. I buy better stuff, less often.

For my kids, I found a pre-64 Winchester in .243. As a featherweight, they made a lot of them. A mint one was found from 1956 for about a $1000. Totally suitable for a child, or a full grown adult. With modern quality ammo, it will kill elk quite adequately with wise shot placement. In addition, you can find custom mausers in 7x57 that are quite reasonably priced vintage guns that shoot very well for a $1000 price point. The best part is that these weapons will hold or increase in value and they will never be at a yard sale or pawn shop sold as junk 20 years from now. Forever guns. Buy once. Cry once.

Often you can cut the stocks down for kids just enough to use a short recoil pad now, and then add back a 1" recoil pad so it is viable as an adult rifle. Again, to lasting value and utility.

I was at a Cabelas in the Chicago area the other night. There was a mid-grade 8x57J mauser for sale. It had engraving. Nice lightweight stock. Beautiful flat rib the whole barrel length. It was a quality gun. I think it was sitting in the rack for $600 or best offer because the caliber wasn't a sexy new 6.5 creedmore, but it was a very functional caliber, will never lose value, and would cost easily $5000 to have that gun made today. It was so svelte and properly stocked that any 12 year old could carry it on a hunt. That's just an example of good guns cheap that aren't tomorrow's trash.

 

[crs]

At 4 years old.

At18 years old - 10 point buck

Off at JR year of college now and looking forward to a New Years break hunt.

 

[Charles de Ribeau]

This is totally off-topic. Please delete if it's not appropriate, but I really value the opinions of the people on this site.

My grandson is turning 12 next week, which means he'll be able to start hunting deer and elk. That means it's time for his first big game rifle. At the moment, he is a bit small for his age. So I think less recoil needs to be a priority in choice of caliber.

A muzzle break can certainly go a long way toward reducing recoil, but I also know that an excited teenager (almost) is apt to forget to use his ear protection. Hey, I still did that a few years ago! A brake isn't out of the question, but...

What caliber do you think would work well for him? Thanks.

I should add that he has a cow elk tag for this year and REALLY wants to go. So, whatever I pick has to be enough gun for elk (and legal for them).

 

[sgt_zim]

I would seriously consider a 7mm-08. If you reload the range of bullets normally available is extensive. Some yrs ago I shot one with 120 gr handloads when we were spotlighting. Recoil was mild. For elk run some 160 gr bullets in it. 120-140's will be fantastic for deer/pronghorn. It can be loaded down a bit for practice/varmints and loaded up for bigger animals. For a youngster its about ideal.
I thought about the various 6.5's, but really they are light for elk. The various .30 calibers would be heavier than what I'd consider except possibly a .308. Even that may have more recoil than what he'd like. 7X57 and the like are pretty similar to the 7mm-08, but ammo availability may be less. Good luck.
Bruce

Definitely agree with Bruce here, and (assuming you reload) I'd add 6.5x55. The 140-160 grain freedom seeds work well on just about everything

I taught my daughter to shoot on both calibers, and it didn't take her any time to be able to reach out to 400 yards, never giving a thought to recoil.

 

[curtism1234]

If elk is involved, then I think the 308 is a great entry choice. Savage, Browning, Howa, Remington 7, 70 featherweight --- all good choices. I'd keep it light and handy at 7 1/2 pounds all in with scope; he isn't going to be shooting very far to start out.

If he wants to step up to 7mm rem mag or 300 win mag someday, then he can buy a longer barrel heavier rifle.

 

[Charles de Ribeau]

Hi @Charles de Ribeau

You didn't mention where you live, but judging from where you've hunted, what you want to hunt, and your French name I'll assume you're North American and by the 12 year age to start hunting that you're Canadian?

I do not like buying junk. The reason I buy my kids $1000-$4000 rifles is because I'm poor, not rich. $300 rifles are throw away, $1000 rifles are forever. I cannot afford to buy anything that becomes worthless. I buy better stuff, less often.

For my kids, I found a pre-64 Winchester in .243. As a featherweight, they made a lot of them. A mint one was found from 1956 for about a $1000. Totally suitable for a child, or a full grown adult. With modern quality ammo, it will kill elk quite adequately with wise shot placement. In addition, you can find custom mausers in 7x57 that are quite reasonably priced vintage guns that shoot very well for a $1000 price point. The best part is that these weapons will hold or increase in value and they will never be at a yard sale or pawn shop sold as junk 20 years from now. Forever guns. Buy once. Cry once.

Often you can cut the stocks down for kids just enough to use a short recoil pad now, and then add back a 1" recoil pad so it is viable as an adult rifle. Again, to lasting value and utility.

I was at a Cabelas in the Chicago area the other night. There was a mid-grade 8x57J mauser for sale. It had engraving. Nice lightweight stock. Beautiful flat rib the whole barrel length. It was a quality gun. I think it was sitting in the rack for $600 or best offer because the caliber wasn't a sexy new 6.5 creedmore, but it was a very functional caliber, will never lose value, and would cost easily $5000 to have that gun made today. It was so svelte and properly stocked that any 12 year old could carry it on a hunt. That's just an example of good guns cheap that aren't tomorrow's trash.

Actually, I'm in Colorado. My father's side came from Alsace in the mid-1800s.

That's good advice. I wonder if Cabela's can transfer a gun like that to one of their stores in Colorado or to the mothership in Sydney, NE.

 

[Art Lambart II]

My 11-year-old son Trip has been hunting deer with a rifle since he was 9 and his grandfather (we call him Opa) @Shootist43 had the exact same issue. He solved this dilemma with what he calls the grandkids gun, it's a 6.5x55 Mauser with a 20-inch barrel and a short laminated thumbhole stock. The 6.5x55 is a great round for deer and hogs but its low recoil makes it ideal for new shooters. The 6.5x55 has only one problem and that only exists in the US and that is ammo availability, it's hard to find 6.5x55 ammo in a store. If you're a reloader the 6.5x55 is a great choice, if not look at a 6.5 Creedmore or better yet a 7mm-08.

 

[BeeMaa]

I'm with @rookhawk on this. Buy once, cry once.

A high quality rifle that will last a lifetime like the several pre-64 WIN M70's for right around the $1K price range on GB. If you are worried about stock fit, you can buy a less expensive (Boyds or similar) stock for modification and reinstall the original when he grows into it. If you stay with the M70 you will have a host of options.

As for caliber...270WIN and 30-06 are proper Elk cartridges and offer lots of options to keep recoil low. Especially with 30-06 offering some factory reduced recoil loads.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

My proposition 7 x 57.

 

[rookhawk]

Actually, I'm in Colorado. My father's side came from Alsace in the mid-1800s.

That's good advice. I wonder if Cabela's can transfer a gun like that to one of their stores in Colorado or to the mothership in Sydney, NE.

@Charles de Ribeau I do believe that Cabelas for a nominal fee will ship guns to and fro from different locations for you. If you fail to buy, I think they charge you $35 shipping and hassle.

I wanted to share an example of a gun I bought there for my son. There was a 7x64 Brenneke custom mauser for sale there. It was in Richfield, WI. NO ONE in that town knows what a 7x64 Brenneke is. It was priced at $3500 and was sitting there for about 2-3 years. It is a glorious rifle but it was in an odd caliber, it was priced very high, and it had the integrated bases and dovetail for a european EAW pivot mount. (mounts are $450 and most people would not know where to get them).

I wrote them a letter explaining that the gun is unsalable, overpriced, no one is going to buy a 7x64 brenneke and no one is going to buy a gun that requires $1500 to have custom mounts shipped from Germany and installed by New England Custom Gun.

They agreed, I picked up the rifle for $850. I then scrounged the internet and spent $250 on a set of the correct mounts and spent many hours fitting them myself. Time consuming, but not difficult work. I picked up a 3-9x36 Swarovski scope for the gun for $500. I then cut the stock down about 1/4" and installed two pads, a quick detach 1/2" pad and a quick detach 1-1/4". So all-in, with world class mounts, world class gun, world class optics, I spent $1800 on the rifle. Easily a $5000-$6000 gun to have built. It was in a perfect caliber for anyone age 9 or up that will kill any animal in America, Europe, and all plains game up to eland and leopard.

When we started pulling the as new gun apart we did a component autopsy on it. It had a $450 rechnagel 3 position safety. It had a $500 EAW or Rechnagel trigger group. It had EAW pivot mount front saddle. It had EAW express sights and ramps. It had EAW cross bolts. It was Glass Bedded. It like was a Lothar Walthar barrel. It had $100 EU style inletted swivels. Very nice stocking. Very nice custom bottom metal.

This is the kind of stuff you can find out on the marketplace. 999 out of 1000 people would have bought a junkie new savage instead because most people don't see a high quality gun from a low quality gun. That's what you buy a kid. There are many guns out there for "entry level" priced guns that will be equally appropriate in the hands of a hedge fund manager or millionaire 40 years later. I don't believe in buying anything that kids "Age out of".

WORST CASE scenario is your kid or grandkid needs to buy a first home or wants to pay off education. They can always sell the high quality guns if properly marketed and advertised. Used fine guns are a horribly inefficient market if you know what you're looking at.

This week I bought a "starter shotgun" for my kids for $1400. It was easily worth $6000, maybe as much as $10,000. It was sitting in a rack for 2 months, no one knew what it was even though its quality was patently obvious. A fully engraved, new old stock, 80 year old over/under baby frame 28 bore ejector that weight 5.25lbs. Think of how many people walked past that and bought a citori 28 bore in the time that gun sat there?

Buy smart.

 

[rookhawk]

I'm with @rookhawk on this. Buy once, cry once.

A high quality rifle that will last a lifetime like the several pre-64 WIN M70's for right around the $1K price range on GB. If you are worried about stock fit, you can buy a less expensive (Boyds or similar) stock for modification and reinstall the original when he grows into it. If you stay with the M70 you will have a host of options.

As for caliber...270WIN and 30-06 are proper Elk cartridges and offer lots of options to keep recoil low. Especially with 30-06 offering some factory reduced recoil loads.

+1

A pre-64 in .270 or 30-06 are the least expensive because they were the most common calibers. The difference between a .270 and a 7x57 pre-64 is $1000 versus $12000. The difference isn't quality, only caliber scarcity.

 

[Rem700stw]

I would recommend the Weatherby Vanguard Compact/Youth in 7mm-08. This rifle has spacers that can be added or removed from the stock to ensure proper fit now and as your grandchild grows. The Vanguard also has an accuracy guarantee.

I recently made this selection(twice) for my twin grandsons. I have owned a few other Vanguards through the years and all have been quite accurate.

 

[Boyd Brooks]

I started out with a Winchester lever action 30-30 for deer in Ontario. Great starting rifle, light, not expensive and will kill right up to moose at a reasonable distance. Moved to a 303 Lee Enfield for my second rifle. Don’t have any of those now though, most have a belted case now.

 

[Mountaineer]

I am just getting through this stage with my three kids. I would recommend a 338 federal in a Kimber or ruger. I have one in each and the Kimber is slimmer and lighter. Use a minimum load with the 160 tipped triple shock from Barnes. You will be amazed with the killing power and light recoil. Good luck!

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I bought my first 30-06 at age 15, a nice post 64 featherweight. If you handload (I did at 15) you can easily reduce loads for practice.
Find the boy a nice M70 30-06.

 

[Hogpatrol]

A lot of good suggestions, I would only add getting something that he can shoot accurately. Price, name, heritage, etc., mean nothing if a hunting rifle isn't able to put five shots in 1/2 to 1 moa at 100 yards.
The Weatherby Youth and the Thompson Center Compass Compact are a couple options with guaranteed accuracy..

 

[Berettaco]

I am originally from Colorado and all my family is still out there. I don’t have kids but I have a bunch of nieces and nephews and I bought them all their first big game rifles. All of them got Wby vanguards in 7mm-08. When looking at ballistics and recoil it’s a great option for kids and they have already taken many antelope, mule deer and elk.