1 MOA Hoax

[Jfet]

Interesting. Enjoy.

 

[Inline6]

I can't say it is anything earth shattering.

Most manufacturers only shoot 3 shots for groups, most require "match grade ammo". Take all that intoconsideration and add, most people can't shoot 1/2MOA with a 1/4MOA rifle. I'm not sure what that rifle was in the opening. It looked to very light for whatever caliber it was. Most manufacturers would have shot it from some type of rest.

 

[Altitude sickness]

So because none of these people could shoot, it’s the rifle.

Also, his definition of a cold bore shot leaves out a lot of important details. Apparently he thinks cold bore shot solely means the metal is cold. Is the bore clean and oiled ? If the barrel was stripped down to bare new metal with too vigorous cleaning. It will more likely than not need fouling shots. To get back to where it was sighted in at.

I have had numerous factory rifles with good factory ammunition shoot cloverleafs at 100 yards and if it threw one it was me not the rifle.

As far as the claim of the warranties, why wouldn’t they leave it vague, knowing that the human is the weak link in the chain, that they have no control over.

And for every Yahoo that can’t shoot to send a rifle back and expect them to prove them wrong for free is ridiculous.

I have had rifles that I got rid of because they wouldn’t shoot but I think I’ve had more that shot plenty well, then bad

 

[Jfet]

I can't say it is anything earth shattering.

Most manufacturers only shoot 3 shots for groups, most require "match grade ammo". Take all that intoconsideration and add, most people can't shoot 1/2MOA with a 1/4MOA rifle. I'm not sure what that rifle was in the opening. It looked to very light for whatever caliber it was. Most manufacturers would have shot it from some type of rest.

So because none of these people could shoot, it’s the rifle.

Also, his definition of a cold bore shot leaves out a lot of important details. Apparently he thinks cold bore shot solely means the metal is cold. Is the bore clean and oiled ? If the barrel was stripped down to bare new metal with too vigorous cleaning. It will more likely than not need fouling shots. To get back to where it was sighted in at.

I have had numerous factory rifles with good factory ammunition shoot cloverleafs at 100 yards and if it threw one it was me not the rifle.

As far as the claim of the warranties, why wouldn’t they leave it vague, knowing that the human is the weak link in the chain, that they have no control over.

And for every Yahoo that can’t shoot to send a rifle back and expect them to prove them wrong for free is ridiculous.

I have had rifles that I got rid of because they wouldn’t shoot but I think I’ve had more that shot plenty well, then bad

If I am talking to someone who is new to rifles and is interested in purchasing a hunting rifle would this video be a good instructive resource to share with them?

 

[Altitude sickness]

Trying to stay positive.

at least it would give them a very low bar of expectations

 

[WAB]

If I am talking to someone who is new to rifles and is interested in purchasing a hunting rifle would this video be a good instructive resource to share with them?

I have typically had better luck than this with my rifles. Most of my hunting rifles are the newer CRF M-70’s. Interestingly, a Super grade .243 was the one I struggled with the most. It took quite a bit of load development to make it a 1 moa rifle. It’s roughly 1.5 moa with factory loads. I almost dumped it, but one final push with load development earned it a spot in the safe.

IMO a new shooter w a factory rifle is likely to be in the 1.5 to 2 MOA range after some practice.

 

[sureshot375]

If I am talking to someone who is new to rifles and is interested in purchasing a hunting rifle would this video be a good instructive resource to share with them?

I don’t think so. It’s mostly just trying to be a hot take to get views on YouTube. It doesn’t really add to anyone’s understanding of rifles and shooting.

The fact is most people can’t shoot 1MOA. The takeaway should be in many circumstances the rifle is more accurate than the shooter.

I would tell them to buy any quality rifle,(doesn’t have to be expensive these days), slap a decent scope and mounts on it, and get out and shoot.

The biggest upgrade that makes new shooters shoot better is a quality trigger. That being said, a $500.00 ruger or savage comes with a great trigger out of the box.

 

[sgt_zim]

My factory Savage 10 in 308, 5 shots

My Tikka T3X 6.5x55, also 5 shots

My son's Savage 10 Hoghunter in 308 - the flier was me, the bench got bumped as I was pulling the trigger. Also 5 shots.

To be fair, this is all custom ammo that I rolled myself.

Every rifle I own is still totally OEM, except for Bradley cheek rests and kick-eez spacers to get me comfortable on LOP.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I don’t think so. It’s mostly just trying to be a hot take to get views on YouTube. It doesn’t really add to anyone’s understanding of rifles and shooting.

The fact is most people can’t shoot 1MOA. The takeaway should be in many circumstances the rifle is more accurate than the shooter.

I would tell them to buy any quality rifle,(doesn’t have to be expensive these days), slap a decent scope and mounts on it, and get out and shoot.

The biggest upgrade that makes new shooters shoot better is a quality trigger. That being said, a $500.00 ruger or savage comes with a great trigger out of the box.

Agree. A good trigger can make a HUGE difference at the range.

 

[Jfet]

the bench got bumped

That’s outstanding precision in y’all’s shooting! Most of the people on this forum are better shooters than the average person at the gun range. However, this excuse for your flier is on the verge of being lame. Was it an elephant that bumped the table or a tornado? More details please and in this case the truth doesn’t have to get in the way of a good story.

 

[sgt_zim]

Interesting. Enjoy.

Don't get me wrong, I love backfire's channel and all of his content. I just don't think it's fair to call this stuff a hoax. We have to keep in mind that the OEMs are probably shooting in perfect conditions. As far as what we can accomplish, the range is "perfect" conditions.

All of that goes out the window in hunting. I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know.

TBH, I rarely see anyone at the range who can shoot to the capability of their rifles. Buddy I used to work with has a match grade 308, Rem 700 action, Shilen barrel (I think), custom trigger, etc. He can't shoot the sort of groups with his $4000 rifle that I can shoot with my $800 rifle.

 

[baxterb]

I don’t think many of the rifles used by the old timers we consider so knowledgeable or experienced shot anywhere close to MOA - and it didn’t matter.

My brother used to hyperfocus on accuracy and spent way too much money eking out .2” of accuracy. I just can’t be bothered.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

I liked that the video pointed out the misleading accuracy guarantee. I know that all but custom gunmakers build to a standard but do not test every unit produced. They could not economically test every gun.

It is so true that most shooters cannot hold 1 MOA, so the accuracy guarantee never gets tested. The guns are however accurate enough for most shooters.

If, and that's a big if, I were to buy a new factory rifle, I would break out my Devcon and release agent. That is unless the stocks have an aluminum bedding block. For those, I may even skim coat bed them if the accuracy isn't what I want.

Only then, as @sgt_zim wrote of, I would start load development.

Finally, most of us are at the 98% level of firearms knowledge. The video makers are at the 50-80% level. They are in most cases better at video making than I presume most of us. I don't watch videos from Tim Spomer very often. Trouble is he is more knowledgeable than most others! His and the subject videos do however help most other shooters and our hobby or passion overall.

I do like the Wilson Combat videos. They are mostly about handguns however.

 

[sgt_zim]

That’s outstanding precision in y’all’s shooting! Most of the people on this forum are better shooters than the average person at the gun range. However, this excuse for your flier is on the verge of being lame. Was it an elephant that bumped the table or a tornado? More details please and in this case the truth doesn’t have to get in the way of a good story.

I know it's lame, but next time you come to Houston, ping me and I'll take you to that dumpster fire of a range. I go there because it's the only one I have access to within 30 minutes drive.

This is a buddy of mine from Bulgaria, took him to that range when he came into town a few years ago, he'd never shot before. On the other side of that wall is another bench, attached to the bench he's shooting from. Worse than benches attached to each other, the seats are attached to the benches.

 

[IvW]

MOA has never bothered me.....
I take a fowling shòt and then take 1 to check where it is shooting and a second to confirm thats it....ready to go

 

[Altitude sickness]

the most accurate rifle still needs consistency.

You can’t take a scrubbed clean, sterile and oiled bore and expect it to hit where the 5th round, Out of a thin contoured barrel shooting a 4000 fps projectile.

Now if the rifle had its preferred fouling and took :30 between shots. My daughter could take his $50 all day with our cheaper factory rifles.
Savage 110 with a proof research barrel .308
Old basic browning A bolt 7 Rem mag
FN .308!
Remington.270
the result would be all holes touching. Unless she flinched or didn’t follow through.
But it sure wouldn’t be due to a rifle brand hoax

 

[Don458]

If I am talking to someone who is new to rifles and is interested in purchasing a hunting rifle would this video be a good instructive resource to share with them?

Weatherby Accumark. 200yd sub 1” shot from prone w/ harris bipod Factory ammo

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I know it's lame, but next time you come to Houston, ping me and I'll take you to that dumpster fire of a range. I go there because it's the only one I have access to within 30 minutes drive.

This is a buddy of mine from Bulgaria, took him to that range when he came into town a few years ago, he'd never shot before. On the other side of that wall is another bench, attached to the bench he's shooting from. Worse than benches attached to each other, the seats are attached to the benches.
View attachment 547920

You'd soil yourself if you had to shoot from my bench. Crude but I can make it work.

 

[YancyW]

I own a vault full of rifles capable of preforming better than I am.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Listening to you folks... Shucks, I have only ever bought three brand new centerfire rifles - all were Marlin lever actions. I like old rifles. I like lever actions. A lot of my rifles are 50+ years old. I almost never have to shoot over 200 yards or so. Most of my lever actions are capable of 1.5-2.0ish... and that kills the stuff I hunt right well.

Sub 1" groups? For me, thinking about teeny tiny groups reminds me of a line from a McManus story, although he was talking about his buddies in their early teen years, wondering about women: "Female anatomy was just a rumor we hoped was true."