Is this SAKO 85 Control Round Feed

[NIGHTHAWK]

In a quest to put the correct action, to include feed and extractor type, for my new .458 Lott build I’m looking to better understand actions, their feed and extractor types. It’s actually and interesting exercise. I never gave it much thought.

I had a good look at my SAKO 85 and my MOA 300 RUM just to get a better idea of what they are and how they work.

My SAKO 85:

300 RUM:

 

[Bert01]

I would say the 85 is CRF, while the 300 (I’m not sure what the model is) is standard push feed.

 

[Shako Badhan]

The Sako 85 is a push feed type action.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Here is a video of my SAKO 85 ejecting an empty cartridge.

 

[mark-hunter]

Is Sako 85 controlled round feed?
This question pops up from time to time.
We dont have concensus.

The factory claims, Sako 85 is controlled round feed.
Here is formal technical details by factory.

"BOLT: 3 locking lugs, control round feed, mechanical ejection."

 

[JD Noblin]

Hello....I would submit to you that the Sako 85 is a controlled round feed with a small claw extractor on the bolt head. On the Sako 85, when a cartridge is loaded into the magazine and the bolt moves forward the bottom of the bolt face moves the cartridge forward and out of the magazine feed lips at which time the cartridge rim slides up the bolt face and under the claw extractor....this occurs well before the bolt is cammed down. When the cartridge rim slides up the bolt face and under the claw extractor the cartridge is controlled by the bolt while the bolt is moved toward its most forward position so that the bolt can then be cammed down.

Some people contend that the Sako 85 is not a controlled round feed because it does not have a full-length claw extractor like a Mauser 98. It is true that the Sako does not have a full-length claw extractor like a Mauser 98. However, it appears to me that the length or size of the claw extractor is not relevant to issue. What I understand to be determinative of the issue is whether the extractor claw holds onto the rim of the cartridge and guides it into the chamber before the bolt is closed....and the Sako 85 does exactly this. Wherever the bolt goes, the cartridge goes.

When people ask me this question in my shop, I get out my Sako 85 as well as my Winchester Pre-64, Mauser 98, Rigby, Granite Mountain Arms, and FN Mauser rifles and show them that the function of the bolt is exactly the same on each rifle....the bolt face moves the cartridge forward and when the cartridge is released from the magazine feed lips the rim slides up the bolt face and under the claw extractor and is controlled by the bolt before the bolt is fully closed. I understand that a push-feed rifle (like a Weatherby Mark V and Remington for instance) cannot do this because the extractor does not snap over the rim until the bolt is pushed all the way forward and cammed down.

 

[colorado]

The Sako 85 is a push feed type action.

Exactly. I had a Sako extractor put on my Rem 700 XCR II in 375 Weatherby. Did that make it a CRF rifle? I think not.

 

[mark-hunter]

Who ever was the first to coin the term "controlled round feed"?
Somehow I doubt that this was Paul and and Wilhelm Mauser..

Two world wars later after Mauser brothers have passed away long ago, this term has appeared between America rifle users. (maybe with appearance of Remington 700 and post 64 Winchester m70, most likely to make the difference between two systems)
That is my arguable opinion.
The term CRF was created in the time when there was no Sako 85 in existance.

So, in order to establish weather Sako 85 is CRF, we must first define what CRF is:
If definition will include long extractor claw of m98 type, then Sako 85 is not CRF (despite the factory claims)
If definition does not include long extractor claw, then Sako 85 as well may be the CRF exactly as per factory claims

Based on third picture from above by OP, my take is that Sako 85 is CRF, and I am not gun expert.

But all in all, it as well may be pointless.
The problem that can be identified, and not always - is alleged problem of ejection of casing under strange angle, hits the scope, gets back to action and can cause jams? This has been reported in larger calibers.
Feeding was never an issue.
Is this true or false, I have no idea

If there was a problem with ejection, maybe the new line sako 90, has sorted this out, The action of sako 90, is partly closed, with half bridge. However, new sako 90 is not made in large calibers, so far just up to 375 HH.


My Sako 85 in 30-06 works perfectly. (with scope)

 

[Wyatt Smith]

The sako is in fact a controlled round feed rifle. A non rotating, full length claw extractor does not make a rifle CRF any more than a small extractor makes it a push feed. Take the original tang saftey ruger 77, they are push feed but have a non rotating full length extractor.
If the cartridge slips under the extractor during forward bolt travel, and the ejector is located in the rear of the action (not a plunger in the bolt face) it is a CRF rifle. The sako fits the criteria.
A push feed rifle the extractor snaps over the rim of the cartridge as the bolt is closed. The sako does not, or should not, do this.

 

[colorado]

Then my XCR II with the Sako extractor is a CRF? Nice!

 

[Flipper Dude]

In my simple mind, it has control of the cartridge as it’s being fed into the chamber. That would be Controlled Round Feed. It’s not called Controlled Round Ejection. Although your rifle appears to do that as well.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

People make this far too complicated..

 

[JD Noblin]

Exactly. I had a Sako extractor put on my Rem 700 XCR II in 375 Weatherby. Did that make it a CRF rifle? I think not.

Colorado....you are correct....putting a claw extractor on your Remington did not make it a controlled round feed. The presence of a claw extractor by itself does not determine whether it is a push feed or a controlled round feed. Your Remington started out as a push feed and it is still, and always will be, a push feed even with a claw extractor added to it.

Sako 85s do not operate the same as a Remington. If I push a Remington bolt forward just enough until the cartridge in the magazine exits the feed lips and then smartly pull back on the bolt the cartridge will still be 1/2 in the chamber rattling around freely because the bolt has no control over the round at that point. For a Remington bolt (with or without claw extractor) to gain control over a cartridge the bolt must be cammed down. If I push the Sako 85 bolt forward just enough until the cartridge exits the feed lips the cartridge will slide up the bolt face and behind the extractor....if I then pull back smartly on the bolt the cartridge will be drawn backward and be flung out of the rifle....just like a Mauser 98.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Then my XCR II with the Sako extractor is a CRF? Nice!

No more than a tang safety Ruger 77 is.

 

[JD Noblin]

Who ever was the first to coin the term "controlled round feed"?
Somehow I doubt that this was Paul and and Wilhelm Mauser..

Two world wars later after Mauser brothers have passed away long ago, this term has appeared between America rifle users. (maybe with appearance of Remington 700 and post 64 Winchester m70, most likely to make the difference between two systems)
That is my arguable opinion.
The term CRF was created in the time when there was no Sako 85 in existance.

So, in order to establish weather Sako 85 is CRF, we must first define what CRF is:
If definition will include long extractor claw of m98 type, then Sako 85 is not CRF (despite the factory claims)
If definition does not include long extractor claw, then Sako 85 as well may be the CRF exactly as per factory claims

Based on third picture from above by OP, my take is that Sako 85 is CRF, and I am not gun expert.

But all in all, it as well may be pointless.
The problem that can be identified, and not always - is alleged problem of ejection of casing under strange angle, hits the scope, gets back to action and can cause jams? This has been reported in larger calibers.
Feeding was never an issue.
Is this true or false, I have no idea

If there was a problem with ejection, maybe the new line sako 90, has sorted this out, The action of sako 90, is partly closed, with half bridge. However, new sako 90 is not made in large calibers, so far just up to 375 HH.


My Sako 85 in 30-06 works perfectly. (with scope)

For the the new Sako 90 that will soon be released, Sako made a quite a change to the action....the new Model 90 is now a push feed. Below is a picture of the Model 90 bolt face and you can see a solid raised rim around the bolt face like a Remington 700 and the presence of plunger ejectors...both of which would prevent a cartridge rim from sliding up the bolt face and under the claw extractor like a Model 85.

 

[Northern Shooter]

According to Sako the 85 was CRF.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

It’s somewhat controlled…

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Who ever was the first to coin the term "controlled round feed"?
Somehow I doubt that this was Paul and and Wilhelm Mauser..

Two world wars later after Mauser brothers have passed away long ago, this term has appeared between America rifle users. (maybe with appearance of Remington 700 and post 64 Winchester m70, most likely to make the difference between two systems)
That is my arguable opinion.
The term CRF was created in the time when there was no Sako 85 in existance.

So, in order to establish weather Sako 85 is CRF, we must first define what CRF is:
If definition will include long extractor claw of m98 type, then Sako 85 is not CRF (despite the factory claims)
If definition does not include long extractor claw, then Sako 85 as well may be the CRF exactly as per factory claims

Based on third picture from above by OP, my take is that Sako 85 is CRF, and I am not gun expert.

But all in all, it as well may be pointless.
The problem that can be identified, and not always - is alleged problem of ejection of casing under strange angle, hits the scope, gets back to action and can cause jams? This has been reported in larger calibers.
Feeding was never an issue.
Is this true or false, I have no idea

If there was a problem with ejection, maybe the new line sako 90, has sorted this out, The action of sako 90, is partly closed, with half bridge. However, new sako 90 is not made in large calibers, so far just up to 375 HH.


My Sako 85 in 30-06 works perfectly. (with scope)

My SAKO 85 L in .375 H&H ejects without issue. Could that have anything to do with it being Left Handed?

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Slowed down…

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I’d like to see where the ejection problem occurs? What happens? I’m not ripping the bolt back and have never needed to in the field during a follow up shot… So, it’s hard to get an idea of what the ejection problem is or looks like.