Rolex- the stupidest, lamest company

[VertigoBE]

The waterpiping in a typical home are pressured to between 2,5 and 4,5 bar (ATM)

Therefore if you want your watch to be able to withstand the pressure coming out of the water faucet in your kitchen or bathroom, you want the rating to be at least 5 bar (ATM) and preferably way higher to have a margin of safety.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=water+pressure+domestic

Well, I took a 5ATM (1ATM is about 1bar I believe) rated Swiss watch for a swim in a Zimbabwean lake, on a particularly hot day, and subsequently it was destroyed due to water damage.

So for a “it is resistant to all normal activities” I believe 15-20ATM would be a minimum I believe… especially with a watch costing more than 50$.

 

[Woodcarver]

Most dive watches list a depth, not ATM, for rating. If you killed one with a rating of 5ATM just swimming, that tells me the o-ring was not sealed under the back of the case. I have seen dive computers die from the same malady, and killed one of my watches (a cheap Casio thankfully) the same way. It happens. General rule of thumb is a watch that is only rated to 5ATM, or 132fsw, isn't a dive watch; consider it "water resistant". An actual dive watch will have a depth rating of 200M (18ATM+) or more. And even then, if the o-ring isn't properly sealing, a shallow dip in a pool might kill it, whether it cost $35, or $35000.

 

[VertigoBE]

Most dive watches list a depth, not ATM, for rating. If you killed one with a rating of 5ATM just swimming, that tells me the o-ring was not sealed under the back of the case. I have seen dive computers die from the same malady, and killed one of my watches (a cheap Casio thankfully) the same way. It happens. General rule of thumb is a watch that is only rated to 5ATM, or 132fsw, isn't a dive watch; consider it "water resistant". An actual dive watch will have a depth rating of 200M (18ATM+) or more. And even then, if the o-ring isn't properly sealing, a shallow dip in a pool might kill it, whether it cost $35, or $35000.

Thanks for the input!

A dive watch is not what I’m looking for. But a watch that I can keep on when going for a short swim, not having to leave it for idle hands on the beach. Or that I can run under a faucet without worry, to wash away blood and grime from a hunt.

So it should get a water test from the store is what you say? Otherwise, no matter the brand or model, there is always a risk?

 

[Woodcarver]

Thanks for the input!

A dive watch is not what I’m looking for. But a watch that I can keep on when going for a short swim, not having to leave it for idle hands on the beach. Or that I can run under a faucet without worry, to wash away blood and grime from a hunt.

So it should get a water test from the store is what you say? Otherwise, no matter the brand or model, there is always a risk?

When the battery gets changed on a dive watch, they typically get tested in a pressure pot. Not every watch shop has one. The Casio I killed was not a dive watch, but had a depth rating. The battery had been swapped out several months earlier, and it had not had any issues in the shower, but when I went for a swim, the display was blank afterwards. I doubt the watch shop tested it, even if they had the ability.
Most watches that have any rating at all will handle swimming. The one I wear 24/7, a Citizen Pro Diver, is a dive watch and won't need a battery change for another decade or more (Eco Drive). If I took a high end watch to get a battery change, I would ask about their warranty specifically in regards to immersion damage. Even then, there is always a risk.

 

[BeeMaa]

Thanks for the input!

A dive watch is not what I’m looking for. But a watch that I can keep on when going for a short swim, not having to leave it for idle hands on the beach. Or that I can run under a faucet without worry, to wash away blood and grime from a hunt.

So it should get a water test from the store is what you say? Otherwise, no matter the brand or model, there is always a risk?

The higher end watches have less risk. Rolex Submariner or Deepsea, Omega Diver 300 or Planet Ocean, Seiko Prospex (Tuna Can), Doxa Sub 300, Tag Heuer AquaRacer 300 and Casio G-Shock (believe it or not) to name a few. Less expensive watches...well you take your chances. Lots of Navy diver guys I knew wore the Rolex Submariners or the G-Shock...so both ends of the price spectrum.

Some of these require a battery (quartz movement) while others are automatic or mechanical. My parents have had their watch batteries changed and movements serviced every year on their annual trip to Aruba since they bought them in the early 1990's. They are Tag Heuer Formula 1 models that they used for diving and have a 200 meter (20 ATM or 650 feet) rating. I know my dad has gone to about 50 meters which is right at the limit of recreational diving and never had a problem with his watch or the o-ring seal. I don't think my mother went past 30 meters, but still no issues.

Dad's watch was rebuilt in Switzerland about 5 years ago because of the abuse he puts it through. You can tell it looks a little better than the smaller women's watch next to it that hasn't. Both keep good time (despite the dates not matching LOL) and will probably be the last watches they ever own. They quit diving in their early 70's but still have the batteries changed every year...just to make sure.

 

[CJW]

Well, I took a 5ATM (1ATM is about 1bar I believe) rated Swiss watch for a swim in a Zimbabwean lake, on a particularly hot day, and subsequently it was destroyed due to water damage.

So for a “it is resistant to all normal activities” I believe 15-20ATM would be a minimum I believe… especially with a watch costing more than 50$.

Most watch enthusiasts consider 5ATM labeled watches to be limited to basic hand washing type water activities.
Maybe a quick dunk in the water followed by a drying off on your shirt if you were fishing or something like that. Consider them a slight, but very slight step up from a vintage watch.

 

[CJW]

Thanks for the input!

A dive watch is not what I’m looking for. But a watch that I can keep on when going for a short swim, not having to leave it for idle hands on the beach. Or that I can run under a faucet without worry, to wash away blood and grime from a hunt.

So it should get a water test from the store is what you say? Otherwise, no matter the brand or model, there is always a risk?

How much are you looking to spend? What style? Something with some color, dark, earth tones? Prefer Japan, Swiss or other European movement? Integrated bracelet or regular lugs?

 

[Woodcarver]

The higher end watches have less risk. Rolex Submariner or Deepsea, Omega Diver 300 or Planet Ocean, Seiko Prospex (Tuna Can), Doxa Sub 300, Tag Heuer AquaRacer 300 and Casio G-Shock (believe it or not) to name a few. Less expensive watches...well you take your chances. Lots of Navy diver guys I knew wore the Rolex Submariners or the G-Shock...so both ends of the price spectrum.

Some of these require a battery (quartz movement) while others are automatic or mechanical. My parents have had their watch batteries changed and movements serviced every year on their annual trip to Aruba since they bought them in the early 1990's. They are Tag Heuer Formula 1 models that they used for diving and have a 200 meter (20 ATM or 650 feet) rating. I know my dad has gone to about 50 meters which is right at the limit of recreational diving and never had a problem with his watch or the o-ring seal. I don't think my mother went past 30 meters, but still no issues.

Dad's watch was rebuilt in Switzerland about 5 years ago because of the abuse he puts it through. You can tell it looks a little better than the smaller women's watch next to it that hasn't. Both keep good time (despite the dates not matching LOL) and will probably be the last watches they ever own. They quit diving in their early 70's but still have the batteries changed every year...just to make sure.

View attachment 596217

I suspect the lower risk is due to being taken to an authorized service shop, or a dive shop, both of whom would understand how critical that o-ring is. It also wouldn't be a surprise to find the battery compartment on the high end watches are actually sealed from the mechanism. Some of the better dive computers have that feature. If the battery compartment floods, the only damage is the battery is toast, but the watch/computer isn't smoked at the same time.
Beautiful pair of watches!

 

[Amphibious]

Yeah, I'm not into heavy gold necklaces or "body art". If someone drugged my beer and tattooed me, I'd probably jump in front of a bus when I came to.

Every year I tell my brother, "This season I WILL remember to remove my watch before I gut the deer." And every year without fail I forget. This year I finally remembered ... one out of three bucks anyway. I imagine you guys with Rolex watches would swoon if you forgot and sent them swimming in blood. Guess I'm still a working class guy at heart. Because my dad was. And his dad before him.

errrr. derrrr.... derp...errrrrr

Seriously, why are you even still posting in this thread? You made in very clear you think those of us that show a predilection high end timepieces are stupid. 2000+ plus posts and <1yr membership. I'm going to guess the rest of them are just as relevant.

 

[BeeMaa]

errrr. derrrr.... derp...errrrrr

Seriously, why are you even still posting in this thread? You made in very clear you think those of us that show a predilection high end timepieces are stupid. 2000+ plus posts and <1yr membership. I'm going to guess the rest of them are just as relevant.


View attachment 596234

The Rolex Explorer II is a great everyday piece. Not to big, not too thick, easy to read, good water resistance and can be dressed up or down. Much like the Omega Diver 300. Great tool watches.

 

[Challer]

I have a 14060M and the wife has a 176200. The Rolex problem stems from flippers. Rolex created this problem. I guess it started basically in the late 2000's where NIB "flips" were going for 20-25% more than new. People would buy them brand new from an AD and sell them for 20-25% more later that day. That lead to the AD's developing "preferred client lists" because Rolex started blacklisting AD's if they found out a watch was resold shortly after sale.

It's a double-edged sword. Rolex controls the market for the watches. Produce too many? They become common and not as desirable. Produce not enough? The problems with flippers occurs.

I'm conflicted on it. I love my 14060M 2-liner because it's probably the purest Sub ever made. I'm actually glad I bought used 8 years ago.

True, but many of the flippers are the dealers themselves

 

[HookMeUpII]

errrr. derrrr.... derp...errrrrr

Seriously, why are you even still posting in this thread? You made in very clear you think those of us that show a predilection high end timepieces are stupid. 2000+ plus posts and <1yr membership. I'm going to guess the rest of them are just as relevant.


View attachment 596234

Lets not forget the gallons upon gallons of scumbag blood they get drenched in as well.

Not me:

 

[HookMeUpII]

True, but many of the flippers are the dealers themselves

Could be, wouldn't surprise me. I know if they get caught that's the end of the line for their AD. Rolex has people watching the forums/classifieds. That's one of the reasons you'll see serials blacked out. Even a good client who maybe buys a new watch, realizes it's not for them maybe a year later, might get blacklisted by Rolex if they see it's being sold. I know my private dealer has been blacklisted by basically every AD in NJ/NY. But there's ways around. He will have friends go in and purchase on his behalf, give them a cut of the re-sale. I'm sure there's AD's in on it in that regard as well.

But to actually have an AD take a watch and try to flip in the private open market? Career suicide. Probably gets a layered into a sale. AD >private good client > private seller like my AD > end buyer from the classified at a 25%-40% markup depending on the watch.

The prices and waitlists are coming down. I paid $4200 for my 14060M with original box and papers in 2016. At the high of the crazy market in 2020-2021 I had an offer for $13,000 from a guy who wanted it for his son who was graduating college because it's a 2000 manufacturer date and that's when his son was born. They are probably back down to like $7000-$7500 now.

 

[0002S]

Well, I took a 5ATM (1ATM is about 1bar I believe) rated Swiss watch for a swim in a Zimbabwean lake, on a particularly hot day, and subsequently it was destroyed due to water damage.

So for a “it is resistant to all normal activities” I believe 15-20ATM would be a minimum I believe… especially with a watch costing more than 50$.

Movement or your arm swimming or diving into water, can cause more pressure on the crown stem seal than 5 ATM. Any watch, with a screw down crown rate to 150+ feet, should not have this issue.

 

[BeeMaa]

Movement or your arm swimming or diving into water, can cause more pressure on the crown stem seal than 5 ATM. Any watch, with a screw down crown rate to 150+ feet, should not have this issue.

5 ATM is 50 meters...which is 165 feet. Would you like to amend that post?

I will not speculate as to the reason that @VertigoBE had the problem that he did, but none the less it has impacted his decision on what level of water resistance he's willing to have on his next watch.

I'm not a diver...not even close. Not that I don't like the water, but I have other pursuits. The watch currently on my wrist says it's good to 600 meters, which is about 595 meters more than I'd ever expect to be using it. Just for reference, recreational diving pretty much stops at 50 meters and then it moves into the professional realm.

Want to get really technical? The Omega Planet Ocean has a helium escape valve. This is for use by saturation divers who will spend weeks working below the surface from a bell suspended by a ship or platform. The helium atom is so small that it can leak by the seals of even the best watches and will pressurize the inside of the case while the worker is in this high pressure environment. When the work is done, the divers enter a barometric chamber to slowly reduce the pressure back to atmospheric. It's at this time that the helium escape valve is opened to allow the internals of the watch to also come back down in pressure. How did they find this out? Either in the barometric chamber or after getting out the watch exploded, from the inside out. Watches are engineered to keep pressure out, not be pressurized from the inside.

I think it's fair to say that 99% of the Omega Planet Ocean watches that are out there have never needed their helium escape valve opened. But it doesn't stop people from buying watches that are WAY beyond the capabilities of the owners, myself included.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

Just to get back on track…

HH

 

[BeeMaa]

Just to get back on track…
View attachment 596428

HH

Presidential Day-Date...very nice.

 

[Challer]

Could be, wouldn't surprise me. I know if they get caught that's the end of the line for their AD. Rolex has people watching the forums/classifieds. That's one of the reasons you'll see serials blacked out. Even a good client who maybe buys a new watch, realizes it's not for them maybe a year later, might get blacklisted by Rolex if they see it's being sold. I know my private dealer has been blacklisted by basically every AD in NJ/NY. But there's ways around. He will have friends go in and purchase on his behalf, give them a cut of the re-sale. I'm sure there's AD's in on it in that regard as well.

But to actually have an AD take a watch and try to flip in the private open market? Career suicide. Probably gets a layered into a sale. AD >private good client > private seller like my AD > end buyer from the classified at a 25%-40% markup depending on the watch.

The prices and waitlists are coming down. I paid $4200 for my 14060M with original box and papers in 2016. At the high of the crazy market in 2020-2021 I had an offer for $13,000 from a guy who wanted it for his son who was graduating college because it's a 2000 manufacturer date and that's when his son was born. They are probably back down to like $7000-$7500 now.

My understanding is that the dealers sell the watch to person for well above msrp, and also get a kick back from that person when it’s flipped. Stainless Rolex, as a result often sell near gold prices

 

[0002S]

5 ATM is 50 meters...which is 165 feet. Would you like to amend that post?

I meant to say that and the statements are exclusive of each other.

What I’m about to say assumes the watch is functioning correctly and its features are set correctly.

When they pressure test a watch, it’s in a chamber sitting and a vacuum applies pressure. When swimming the forces from diving in water or moving your arms can apply pressures in excess of 5 ATM. This is why non-screw down crown watches, w/5 ATM testing, suggest you don’t swim in them. It’s not to say you can’t submerse them or shower in them, just limit the forces of moving through water. There is also the chance that the crown is not pushed in all the way and or the seal is old.

As an example, I wouldn’t swim in a Hamilton Khaki Field. Your luck will eventually run out.

3 ATM watches are a hand washing affair only.
All of this has less to do with the depth rating and more to do with screw down crown. This is why I said anything w/screw down crown and 150+ feet rating is fine for swimming.

I am a diver. More than a recreational diver. Since the advent of wrist based dive computers most divers don’t wear dive watches past nostalgia. The hardest thing on a dive watch, when your diving, is the dive boat. Your watch gets beat to shit, as the boat moves, you move and your gear moves. Expensive watches don‘t fare well. I have also seen my share of expensive watch get lost as people didn’t understand pressure and how the nice metal band, w/it‘s divers extension, will become so loose as pressure is applied to your body/wetsuit that the watch slips right off your arm.

Anywho, 200m screw down crown watches are great for swimming, snorkeling and basic recreational scuba.

When I dive and wear a watch, it’s a 200m Seiko or Aqualand. I also wear a Casio Rangeman when cave diving. It takes abuse better.

Professional dive watches w/HE valves…lol.….show for anybody but sat divers.

 

[Woodcarver]

I am a diver. More than a recreational diver. Since the advent of wrist based dive computers most divers don’t wear dive watches past nostalgia. The hardest thing on a dive watch, when your diving, is the dive boat. Your watch gets beat to shit, as the boat moves, you move and your gear moves. Expensive watches don‘t fare well. I have also seen my share of expensive watch get lost as people didn’t understand pressure and how the nice metal band, w/it‘s divers extension, will become so loose as pressure is applied to your body/wetsuit that the watch slips right off your arm.

Anywho, 200m screw down crown watches are great for swimming, snorkeling and basic recreational scuba.

Very true. But I still set the bezel as the last thing before submerging, even with 2 computers along for the dive, lol