Any point in a 'small' double rifle?

[Ridge Runner]

I had the chance to look at a 9.5 x 57 a couple of years ago. A Mannlicher Schoenauer 1910
The furniture had heavy patina (lol) but the action was as smooth as silk and a pristine bore.
Would love to be able to hunt with it

View attachment 593350
And below on the right
View attachment 593352
(Sorry for the rubbish photos)

The right and left rifles are..eh..ok. Now that middle one...Yeah Baby! That is if it is a smoothebore 60 or 79 caliber. Rifle bore...ok...yeah baby. Now it it been a rock smoothebore ...Oh Hell...Yeah Baby!! In a 58 cal and a capper....ok so you have a better choice amongst the other 2.

'....smell that...(deep breathe)....ain't nothing like the fresh smell of black powder...'.

 

[homeless]

One 300H&H
The calibre with highest history

 

[8 x 60]

The right and left rifles are..eh..ok. Now that middle one...Yeah Baby! That is if it is a smoothebore 60 or 79 caliber. Rifle bore...ok...yeah baby. Now it it been a rock smoothebore ...Oh Hell...Yeah Baby!! In a 58 cal and a capper....ok so you have a better choice amongst the other 2.

'....smell that...(deep breathe)....ain't nothing like the fresh smell of black powder...'.

Yes she is a beauty. A .577 Short Rifle for an officer. 3 groove barrel with original rammer, two band, and bayonet. W&C Scott 1860 Birmingham England. She is for sale if you are interested . Not mine, an elderly friends with a massive collection - all for sale. In fact all three are along with many others for sale but the export out from it's current location- a Middle Eastern Sultanate -would be challenging but not impossible.
pm me if you would like further details

Apologies to the OP for going off topic

 

[PerH]

Franzt Rosenberg of Norway – German Hunting Guns

 

[PerH]

Picture from the link I posted , Merkel with one set of barrels is a 18,5 inch 7x57R

 

[SaintPanzer]

I had the chance to look at a 9.5 x 57 a couple of years ago. A Mannlicher Schoenauer 1910
The furniture had heavy patina (lol) but the action was as smooth as silk and a pristine bore.
Would love to be able to hunt with it

View attachment 593350
And below on the right
View attachment 593352
(Sorry for the rubbish photos)

I really like my M1910. Sure, ammo is difficult to find, and I need to work up a hand load. Sure, it's not a magnum. And its recoil has some authority. But it's almost as handy as my M1903, with a lot more punch. And there's a history to it that cannot be ignored.

 

[8 x 60]

I really like my M1910. Sure, ammo is difficult to find, and I need to work up a hand load. Sure, it's not a magnum. And its recoil has some authority. But it's almost as handy as my M1903, with a lot more punch. And there's a history to it that cannot be ignored.

Pictures are always welcome.

Would it be too hard to neck up an 8 x 57R?
I have not compared the case dimensions but maybe a neck expander and if needs be fireforming?
I speak as someone who reforms 7x65R brass to 8x60R (for a light calibre double - to go back to the OP for a moment)
So whilst I am no expert I do know many things are possible.

 

[SaintPanzer]

Pictures are always welcome.

Would it be too hard to neck up an 8 x 57R?
I have not compared the case dimensions but maybe a neck expander and if needs be fireforming?
I speak as someone who reforms 7x65R brass to 8x60R (for a light calibre double - to go back to the OP for a moment)
So whilst I am no expert I do know many things are possible.

I have some once fired brass, made by a German company, but no longer available. I know Qual-Cart will make it. I haven't done it, but I've heard it is easy to form from .30-06. I would have to check the base dimensions to learn if 8X57 would be a good candidate.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Pictures are always welcome.

Would it be too hard to neck up an 8 x 57R?
I have not compared the case dimensions but maybe a neck expander and if needs be fireforming?
I speak as someone who reforms 7x65R brass to 8x60R (for a light calibre double - to go back to the OP for a moment)
So whilst I am no expert I do know many things are possible.

St. Panzer was referring to Mannlicher Schoenauers, none of which used rimmed cartridges.

Cases for the 9.5X57 (headstamped as such) can be purchased from Quality Cartridge or may be easily formed from .35 Whelen, run through dies and trimmed to length. The 'old school' method was to use .30-'06, but those must be expanded in multiple steps.

I have formed 9.5X57 (.375 Nitro Express Rimless) from fresh .35 Whelen with a single pass through RCBS dies, then trimmed to proper length.

 

[8 x 60]

St. Panzer was referring to Mannlicher Schoenauers, none of which used rimmed cartridges.

Correct. I shouldn't have added the "R" at the end of 8x57
So the question still stands. Neck up 8 x 57 rimless?
Would that work?

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Correct. I shouldn't have added the "R" at the end of 8x57
So the question still stands. Neck up 8 x 57 rimless?
Would that work?

Compare following diagram to that of 9.5X57 above.
Note significantly lower, narrower, shoulder of '8X57' and overall taper as typical of _X57 cases.

Some people have used / do use 9.3X57 cases to form 9.5X57 but I would not recommend it unless the brass is first drawn straight as done by Reed's of Oklahoma on his custom loads.

Rimless cases headspace on the shoulder which will remain untouched (too low / narrow) if merely run through sizing dies.

Shoulders of .35 Whelen or of .30-'06 are higher than those of 9.5X57 so the die pushes shoulder to proper height. They are a tad narrower, but not as much as the _X57 cases.

One pass through RCBS dies, trim to length, fill.

Left to right: Cartridge from Reed's (9,3X57; drawn straight, sized, trimmed, filled), One of my old handloads from .35 Whelen (single pass through RCBS dies, trimmed, filled), 1926 dated DWM531, Once fired brass from .35 Whelen based handload.

Or simply use these.

 

[8 x 60]

Compare following diagram to that of 9.5X57 above.
Note significantly lower, narrower, shoulder of '8X57' and overall taper as typical of _X57 cases.

View attachment 595251

Some people have used / do use 9.3X57 cases to form 9.5X57 but I would not recommend it unless the brass is first drawn straight as done by Reed's of Oklahoma on his custom loads.

Rimless cases headspace on the shoulder which will remain untouched (too low / narrow) if merely run through sizing dies.

Shoulders of .35 Whelen or of .30-'06 are higher than those of 9.5X57 so the die pushes shoulder to proper height. They are a tad narrower, but not as much as the _X57 cases.

View attachment 595252

One pass through RCBS dies, trim to length, fill.

View attachment 595255
Left to right: Cartridge from Reed's (9,3X57; drawn straight, sized, trimmed, filled), One of my old handloads from .35 Whelen (single pass through RCBS dies, trimmed, filled), 1926 dated DWM531, Once fired brass from .35 Whelen based handload.


View attachment 595254
Or simply use these.

A very clear and fullsome explanation. Thank you.