Your advice please

[Shootist43]

Well guys, I have to admit that regarding loads for the 416 Ruger, I had my head where the sun don't shine. I thought it might be somewhat near a 416 Rigby (that I do reload for) in more than name. Not so, I see now that there must be at least two powders involved. For now I'm looking at H4350 for the 470, 375 H&H and the 300 Win Mag., and Varget for the 416 Ruger. Several have recommend 4831 or 4832SC for the 470 I see that it can be used without a filler as well. I have no experience with it but I'll run it through QuickLoad to see if it will work with a 375 H&H and the 300 Winnie.

 

[Shootist43]

Well after running everything through QuickLoad I see that I can use the 4831 SC for all three calibers. So it looks like the H4350 is out of the picture. The better option is to use 4831 SC in the following amounts; 103 or 104 Gr. in the 470 pushing a 500 Gr pill, 78 or 79 Gr. in the 375 H&H pushing a 300 gr. pill and 79 Gr. in the 300 Win Mag pushing a 180 gr. pill. For the 416 Ruger somewhere between 66 and 70 Gr. of Varget pushing a 400 Gr. pill.

Thoughts please.

 

[Lbarr265]

Well after running everything through QuickLoad I see that I can use the 4831 SC for all three calibers. So it looks like the H4350 is out of the picture. The better option is to use 4831 SC in the following amounts; 103 or 104 Gr. in the 470 pushing a 500 Gr pill, 78 or 79 Gr. in the 375 H&H pushing a 300 gr. pill and 79 Gr. in the 300 Win Mag pushing a 180 gr. pill. For the 416 Ruger somewhere between 66 and 70 Gr. of Varget pushing a 400 Gr. pill.

Thoughts please.

It sounds good to me. Using only 1 powder is great in theory but sometimes you have to compromise for different cartridges. Varget is always an excellent choice when available.

 

[sgt_zim]

@sgt_zim I'm at the other end of the spectrum, a neat bench is a cry for help. Mine is uncluttered for about one day.
On the other hand, probably a good thing for a newbie.

TBH, mine isn't utterly free of clutter, either. But I always over-engineer the poop out of whatever I build, and I always build things to suit my height and reach, so...my loading bench is 6'x4' - I have lots of real estate to play with. And since it has to be in the garage, I put it on 6" locking casters. I really think it would take a number of blows with a 20# maul to make that bench start to weaken.

Powder, primers, brass, and bullets all live in the cabinet in my office. I have a box just big enough to hold 1 set of dies, a can of powder, scale, scoop, bullets, etc. Load the box, go to the loading bench. Finish what I'm doing for that cartridge, pack it all back in the box, bring it inside, put it all back where I found it. Then pull out all the stuff for cartridge #2, and so on. I only have a single Rock Chucker, but the only thing that would change if I had several was I wouldn't move the dies. Procedure would remain identical otherwise.

my notebook (3 ring binder) has dividers by caliber, and I use a separate data sheet for each caliber. I buy reloading sticky labels by the 1000. Be pretty effing stupid to blow my fingers off (or worse) because I wanted to save a nickel on my documentation media.

 

[sgt_zim]

It sounds good to me. Using only 1 powder is great in theory but sometimes you have to compromise for different cartridges. Varget is always an excellent choice when available.

There's almost always an online retailer that has Varget in stock. And insurance charges for powder and primers seem to have fallen quite dramatically in the last couple years. It's gotten to where 2# of powder + hazmat fee is about the same as buying 2# from a brick and mortar. And if @CAustin buys in 5# or 8# cans, it's already cheaper than brick-and-mortar by a fairly wide margin.

 

[crudeoildude]

I F I was to eliminate all of the clutter on my bench it would have to be 30 foot long.and mine is only 6 but I do keep all powder on the shelf and only have 1 can down at a time.I have a large system of shelves and powder on one bullets on anouther primers in round lidded cookie tims mag and reg separate reference mat on anouther shelf.data sheets in a 3 ring binder marked by caliber,my 65 year old memory needs all the help it can get,if it wasn't for reloading I wouldn't shoot 20 rounds a year I used to say that I reloaded so I could afford to shoot and I shot so I could do more reloading,love love love IT

 

[Buckdog]

Shootist43 I love it that you are getting ca reloading BUT I think you are missing the point of reloading. Most of us reload so that we can make the optimum best ammo for each gun and have fun doing it. that really means that you need to use the optimum supplies aka powder, primers and bullets. No one powder is even going to be close to optimum for those highly different calibers, so why hamper the poor fellow with powders that will shoot sub par accuracy and poor velocity?? How about asking which powder is likely to be the best for each caliber and get him those? PS all the powders mentioned so far are crap for a 300winny! Also someone already mentioned a chronograph and I highly agree! without it you are reloading blind. Also get him a good log book and label everything and record it in the logbook.
Ca glad to have you join the reloader ranks be safe have fun

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Guys I am the son of an engineer but not one myself. So you might imagine that reloading seems very difficult to me.....coming from a place of knowing very little about it.

Charlie, don't make it more difficult then it needs to be. Being cautious whether you're new or experienced at handloading is wise, but don't fear it. A little common sense goes a long way. If you've ever pulled the jack out of your trunk, raised the car, removed the wheel with a flat tire, replaced with your spare and made it home safely, you can do this.

The steps really boil down to the following:

1. Prepare your brass : Size in the sizing die. Clean the primer pocket with a brush. Measure the length and trim if necessary. Start out with new brass and it will take a few firings before this is necessary and you also won't have to clean the primer pocket the first time. Debur and chamfer the neck with this slick little tool that you'll see. Setting up the sizing die is the trick at this step. However if you read the instructions closely with your die set, it'll make sense.

2. Prime the brass: A very simple step. I as well as @Bullthrower338 and I think also @tarbe have found the Lyman priming tool to be the easiest to use. If you can manage to load the primer holding tray of the tool with the primers all facing the right direction, you've got this step. It really is quite easy.

3. Drop some powder, weigh it to ensure it's what you want and fill an empty but primed case. This is arguably the most important step in regards to safety. But it's really not difficult. The key is to not be in a hurry and also to not be disturbed. At this step, if the kids or wife are in the house and come into the garage, I ask them to not disturb me. Its not to be rude, but interruptions at this step are not good.

4. Seat the bullet. I personally do not powder fill a bunch of cases and then perform this step. Instead as I finish step 3 on a case, I then immediately seat a bullet in that now charged case. The "difficult" part of this step is setting up your die so that you seat the bullet to give you the proper COAL (cartridge overall length). You want to start long and work your way downward to obtain the proper setting. Going the other direction means you've seated too short and you have to pull the bullet, that's a pain in the butt.

So steps 3 and 4 go together. As mentioned step 3 is the most important in my opinion in regards to safety. But step 4 is also important. If you're excessively short, it means the load is that much more compressed and you'll have higher pressure.

I've glossed over a number of details in an effort to just describe the big picture. But that's really all there is to it. As you mentioned in your post, being shown how this is done is a great idea. I would guess @Shootist43 would be happy to do that. I would personally recommend picking up a Nosler reloading manual, or any of the other manuals out there that step you through the process. Read it, let that sit in your mind for a day or two, then read it again a time or two more. After that watch someone else do it and it'll all come together.

I'd also recommend you start out with just one caliber, and of the ones listed, I'd go with the .300 Win Mag. Simply because it's likely the cheapest for components and easiest on your shoulder at the range. Start with a starting load and work your way up from there and watch the magic happen as groupings improve.

Once you get into it, you'll run into something that confounds you. Whether it be a stuck case in a die or needing to pull a bullet, it'll happen. There's plenty of hand loaders here on AH who've probably seen the issue. So stop and make a post to get some help.

Oh, one last suggestion. I think you're eyes are as old if not older than mine. A digital scale with their nice big numbers is so much easier to work with than a balance beam scale, especially if the light isn't all that great like in my garage.

 

[CAustin]

Guys speaking of benches would you be so kind as to post a few pictures of what yours look like. I intend to build myself a sturdy work station in my basement. I have some ideas in mind but frankly would like to see what has worked for others.

 

[CAustin]

Charlie, don't make it more difficult then it needs to be. Being cautious whether you're new or experienced at handloading is wise, but don't fear it. A little common sense goes a long way. If you've ever pulled the jack out of your trunk, raised the car, removed the wheel with a flat tire, replaced with your spare and made it home safely, you can do this.

The steps really boil down to the following:

1. Prepare your brass : Size in the sizing die. Clean the primer pocket with a brush. Measure the length and trim if necessary. Start out with new brass and it will take a few firings before this is necessary and you also won't have to clean the primer pocket the first time. Debur and chamfer the neck with this slick little tool that you'll see. Setting up the sizing die is the trick at this step. However if you read the instructions closely with your die set, it'll make sense.

2. Prime the brass: A very simple step. I as well as @Bullthrower338 and I think also @tarbe have found the Lyman priming tool to be the easiest to use. If you can manage to load the primer holding tray of the tool with the primers all facing the right direction, you've got this step. It really is quite easy.

3. Drop some powder, weigh it to ensure it's what you want and fill an empty but primed case. This is arguably the most important step in regards to safety. But it's really not difficult. The key is to not be in a hurry and also to not be disturbed. At this step, if the kids or wife are in the house and come into the garage, I ask them to not disturb me. Its not to be rude, but interruptions at this step are not good.

4. Seat the bullet. I personally do not powder fill a bunch of cases and then perform this step. Instead as I finish step 3 on a case, I then immediately seat a bullet in that now charged case. The "difficult" part of this step is setting up your die so that you seat the bullet to give you the proper COAL (cartridge overall length). You want to start long and work your way downward to obtain the proper setting. Going the other direction means you've seated too short and you have to pull the bullet, that's a pain in the butt.

So steps 3 and 4 go together. As mentioned step 3 is the most important in my opinion in regards to safety. But step 4 is also important. If you're excessively short, it means the load is that much more compressed and you'll have higher pressure.

I've glossed over a number of details in an effort to just describe the big picture. But that's really all there is to it. As you mentioned in your post, being shown how this is done is a great idea. I would guess @Shootist43 would be happy to do that. I would personally recommend picking up a Nosler reloading manual, or any of the other manuals out there that step you through the process. Read it, let that sit in your mind for a day or two, then read it again a time or two more. After that watch someone else do it and it'll all come together.

I'd also recommend you start out with just one caliber, and of the ones listed, I'd go with the .300 Win Mag. Simply because it's likely the cheapest for components and easiest on your shoulder at the range. Start with a starting load and work your way up from there and watch the magic happen as groupings improve.

Once you get into it, you'll run into something that confounds you. Whether it be a stuck case in a die or needing to pull a bullet, it'll happen. There's plenty of hand loaders here on AH who've probably seen the issue. So stop and make a post to get some help.

Oh, one last suggestion. I think you're eyes are as old if not older than mine. A digital scale with their nice big numbers is so much easier to work with than a balance beam scale, especially if the light isn't all that great like in my garage.

@PHOENIX PHIL thank you for the overview. Art SR and Art Jr described the process in very similar terms when we traveled together to Africa. You have added a level of comfort for me by indicating if I can change a tire then I can reload. Once I get se5 up Art SR is going to show me the ropes. As some have suggested I think I will start with just one caliber.
The 470 NE is the one that concerns me the most because I have heard that some of the powders require a filler of some sort be placed in the case before seating the bullet. However, sounds like Art has found a powder that would not require that.
I would like to reload some 375 H&H casings with Federal trophy bonded Bear Claws as that performed so well for me on a recent hunt.

@Shootist43 tell Cathy that Phil says I need a digital scale with big numbers.....because he is right I think....my eyes are older!

 

[Lbarr265]

Guys speaking of benches would you be so kind as to post a few pictures of what yours look like. I intend to build myself a sturdy work station in my basement. I have some ideas in mind but frankly would like to see what has worked for others.

Here is my bench. Nothing special but it’s sturdy. I would recommend a very small vise to help with random issues and keeping the vibratory tumbler on the floor. It makes way less noise than on the bench top. Wooden box in the back has all the small items like neck brushes, case lube, and bullet puller. Helps to have a way to keep the small items organized

You’ll notice I have only 3 powders for 6 calibers. One pistol, one slow powder, and one faster powder. If you’re careful about uniformity in the brass and use quality bullets seated perfectly you can make almost any usable powder accurate.

 

[CAustin]

Here is my bench. Nothing special but it’s sturdy. I would recommend a very small vise to help with random issues and keeping the vibratory tumbler on the floor. It makes way less noise than on the bench top. Wooden box in the back has all the small items like neck brushes, case lube, and bullet puller. Helps to have a way to keep the small items organized

You’ll notice I have only 3 powders for 6 calibers. One pistol, one slow powder, and one faster powder. If you’re careful about uniformity in the brass and use quality bullets seated perfectly you can make almost any usable powder accurate. View attachment 256402

Is the press bolted to the bench or clamped?

 

[sgt_zim]

Is the press bolted to the bench or clamped?

It'll be bolted. The deck on my bench is thick enough I used lag bolts. If you're getting the Rock Chucker (that's what's in the picture, and it's what I have), it's cast iron (meaning HEAVY). I wouldn't trust a clamp

 

[Dewald]

Is the press bolted to the bench or clamped?

Yip. As Sgt Zim says. The press is bolted down. I opted to put my press on a railway sleeper that is loose from the reloading table, but bolted to the wall. That way it doesn’t influence the scale, but obviously you can bolt it to a sturdy bench.

My bench is fairly small, more because this is what I’ve started out with as a student, and never felt the need to upgrade. A reloading bench can never be to big though. One day I’ll build a walk-in safe and have a bench the width of the wall in my man cave.

For the rest, the reloading hardware is on a shelf above the bench, the components on free standing shelves, and the powder in a cupboard.

I try and mark my caseguards, so I dont confuse calibres.

Things like case trimmers mount well on a Nylon or wooden board, that you can clamp to your bench when in use, and remove if you need the space. Redding makes a double C- clamp that works well here.

I keep notes in a simple A5 book per rifle that fits in the rangebag easily, and serves as a reference to go back to. Again, a chronograph is imperative here. When your favorite load all of a sudden doesn’t work any more you simply check what the velocity was when it did shoot sub MOA, send a few rounds over the chrony, and often a new batch of propellant is somewhat faster or slower, and you simply adjust your load up to that.

 

[Hogpatrol]

@Dewald, Just checking out the metal cans of IMR 4064 powder with DuPont logo? How old is that stuff? I haven't seen powder in metal containers in many years.

 

[Lbarr265]

Is the press bolted to the bench or clamped?

Bolted. As is the vise clamp and there are small holes you can’t see so that anytime I’m using the case trimmer it’s also bolted down

 

[Dewald]

@Dewald, Just checking out the metal cans of IMR 4064 powder with DuPont logo? How old is that stuff? I haven't seen powder in metal containers in many years.

Very old... but kept in cool and dry storage all the years and still works fine. As is the RWS an Norma behind them. I managed an ES of 11fps over 5 shots with the .250 Savage and 34,5gr of that 4064 behind a 100gr Sierra MK.

Our South African Somchem propellant still come in metal cans

 

[ChrisG]

Thanks Art for getting this thread going. Guys I am the son of an engineer but not one myself. So you might imagine that reloading seems very difficult to me.....coming from a place of knowing very little about it. Keeping things simple to start out with will be smart to do!
I operate under the theory of “ tell” “show” “do” “review” “make adjustments then proceed”

And I learned something just now from reading the thread......”only have one powder on the bench at one time” makes good operating sense to me!

Hi Charlie,

As an engineer, and a judicious reloader, let me ease your mind... All the hard work is done for you inside a loading manual. I know you read an awful lot about guys "tweaking" their loads, and while that is fun... It gets complicated fast and I haven't ever come across a load in a manual that either A.) blew my gun up, or B.) Didn't print better than 2.5" at 100yards. Even though I could find multiple powders for each cartridge I reload so that I could tweak them, for simplicity sake, I simply use as few powders as I can get away with.

for .223 and .416 Ruger - Alliant 2000MR
for 6.5x55 -Alliant Reloder 22
For .375 H&H -Alliant Reloder 17

for all pistol cartridges (.380 Auto, 9mm, .45 ACP & .45 Super) - Alliant Power Pistol

Its not that I haven't messed with all the little nuance-y things with charge, bullet, powder, brass, etc. Its just that I don't worry about them anymore when the load I have is capable of putting any animal within 300 yards on the ground. As I am not a competitive target shooter, anything more than that, for me at least, is simply academic. I like handloading because I can put any powder I want, taylored for the weather I'll be hunting in, beneath any weight or style of bullet I choose, and use them to hunt. Its like buying boots. You can buy off the rack and get boots that do a pretty good job at most things, or you have custom boots designed to do explicitly what you wanted them for that fit you to a T.

There are a couple things I will add that I had to learn over time:

1. If a loading manual says a load is for a particular bullet (i.e. a hornady 165 grain SP), then that is the bullet it is safe for. Don't try and substitute that data for a 165 grain Swift A-Frame. The swift bullet will have its own set of data.

2. Don't assume a load is safe in your rifle if it didn't blow up some other guys rifle (this roughly translates to "don't use data you found on the internet just 'cuz the guy who wrote it said it was safe.")

3. Pay close attention to Bullet seating depth, evidenced by the Cartridge Overall Length (COAL or OAL). Again, refer to the manual.

4. Have fun! the first time you head out to the range and touch off a round you loaded yourself is a great feeling!

 

[ChrisG]

Yip. As Sgt Zim says. The press is bolted down. I opted to put my press on a railway sleeper that is loose from the reloading table, but bolted to the wall. That way it doesn’t influence the scale, but obviously you can bolt it to a sturdy bench.
View attachment 256424

My bench is fairly small, more because this is what I’ve started out with as a student, and never felt the need to upgrade. A reloading bench can never be to big though. One day I’ll build a walk-in safe and have a bench the width of the wall in my man cave.
View attachment 256426

For the rest, the reloading hardware is on a shelf above the bench, the components on free standing shelves, and the powder in a cupboard.
View attachment 256425
View attachment 256427
View attachment 256428
View attachment 256431

I try and mark my caseguards, so I dont confuse calibres.
View attachment 256429

Things like case trimmers mount well on a Nylon or wooden board, that you can clamp to your bench when in use, and remove if you need the space. Redding makes a double C- clamp that works well here.
View attachment 256430

I keep notes in a simple A5 book per rifle that fits in the rangebag easily, and serves as a reference to go back to. Again, a chronograph is imperative here. When your favorite load all of a sudden doesn’t work any more you simply check what the velocity was when it did shoot sub MOA, send a few rounds over the chrony, and often a new batch of propellant is somewhat faster or slower, and you simply adjust your load up to that.
View attachment 256433

I go to the Metropolitan museum almost every year, nothing in there holds a candle to these photos. I think you should submit them to a local gallery as "art"!

 

[Rock375]

As mentioned a good sturdy bench is a must. I’ve built a few from the plans available from the National Reloading Manufactures Association. I usually change them up a bit to fit my space available to mount it.