Yes, The Cart is in Front of the Horse!

[tarbe]

Good day Sir.
I actually joined the forum because of this topic. I have a 450-400”3 Ruger no1 tropical and up to now have only loaded using 0.410 diameter Bullets, mainly Hornady and Impala (locally made Bullets here in South Africa)
I have not slugged my barrel but read that the diameters on the Rugers are bore 0.400 and grove 0.410
Will the Barnes 0.411 bullets be okay in the 0.410 barrel ? I only ask because I have an opportunity to buy some of these exact 400gr 0.411 Bullets and would love to try them.

This bullet is commonly used in the Ruger No 1 450-400.

I have not taken delivery of my rifle...so I can't yet tell you how they shoot from personal experience.

 

[Raditipa]

Thank you for the info Sir.
I just wanted to make sure before trying the 0.411 bullets. Ruger no 1 rifles are quite scares here in SA and a rebarrel job is virtually impossible, even if you get a smith willing to do it, the re licensing process takes up to a year!

 

[lwaters]

I have shot the .411 300gr. hornady's in mine witn no problems.

 

[lwaters]

Just ran a few rounds over chronograph. 83gr. or 4831sc gave the 400gr dgx an average of 2095fps. Same load gave the 300gr. hornady 2034 average. Mild loads.

 

[tarbe]

Cool - sounds right on for H4831.

I just learned my rifle shipped yesterday!

I will be sure to post my chronograph results as well.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Just ran a few rounds over chronograph. 83gr. or 4831sc gave the 400gr dgx an average of 2095fps. Same load gave the 300gr. hornady 2034 average. Mild loads.

@lwaters : I am confused, how does your 83 gr. load push a 400 gr bullet at 2095 fps and the same load push a 300 gr bullet slower at 2034 fps? Is there a typo?

 

[lwaters]

No typo, but the wind was gusting up to 30 mph and had a hard time with the chrono blowing over. May have changed the distance from rifle. Just had to try new chrono.
also can't remember if I crimped the 300. It wasn't the best day and also learning new chrono.

@lwaters : I am confused, how does your 83 gr. load push a 400 gr bullet at 2095 fps and the same load push a 300 gr bullet slower at 2034 fps? Is there a typo?

 

[sierraone]

Cool - sounds right on for H4831.

I just learned my rifle shipped yesterday!

I will be sure to post my chronograph results as well.

I can see some serious range time on the near horizon. Shot a 450/400 O/U Italian rifle in Alaska last May. Standing and using stix, the recoil felt no more or than my M70 .375. Then again we were shooting a lot of big guns that day! Good luck. I am sure to be reading range reports soon!!!

 

[lwaters]

Well today I put a weaver 1x3 scope on the rifle. 5 shots averaged 2199 with 87 gr. 4831 sc. 5 shots with 85gr. averaged 2133fps. Pressure did not some that bad all rounds ejected easily. This was all done with hornady 400 grain dgx. Here is a 4 shot group at to yards.

 

[lwaters]

50 yards was the group. Will try some 300 grain tomorrow.

 

[tarbe]

I am not shocked that the 300gr were not going faster than the 400, with that moderate load of H4831.

Such a slow powder and a moderate load, there just is not enough "motivation" to get the kind of kinetics going to really get the pressure built up behind that 300gr.

I might try a similar powder charge (say 65gr) with Reloader 15 to see how the velocity compares between the 300 and 400. I suspect the relative velocities will be measurably different. Not hugely, but measurably.

 

[tarbe]

Then again, I could be wrong!

We will find out!

Just got to get my mitts on that rifle!

 

[lwaters]

One thing I'm not sure about is reading the pressure signs on a Ruger No.1. With a bolt you get a sticky bolt lift. All the loads so far extracted easily and primers looked fine. I think that a 400 grain bullet at 2200fps is probably good enough. Also I think Reloader19 might also be a good one to try.

 

[tarbe]

One thing I'm not sure about is reading the pressure signs on a Ruger No.1. With a bolt you get a sticky bolt lift. All the loads so far extracted easily and primers looked fine. I think that a 400 grain bullet at 2200fps is probably good enough. Also I think Reloader19 might also be a good one to try.

You will have difficulty operating the lever and dropping the block once pressure gets out of hand. I've done it with several No 1 rifles.

I can't tell you what pressure that will happen with a given rifle/cartridge, but my long-throated 300 H&H would get sticky when the 180 gr Barnes TTSX hit about 3,125 give or take (with IMR 7828). Drop down to 3,050 (about a grain) and smooth as snot.

The 450-400 may well start getting balky at much lower pressures...the brass is likely not near as stout.

I am sure I will take her near to redline at least once, just to see where things start getting a little squirrely.

I do know some guys have run the 400gr to around 2,400 without bad signs...and certainly the case capacity is there.

But I agree that for my purposes this level is not necessary. I plan to shoot a buffalo at 50 yards max. 2,200 or so will be fine.

I also agree that Re19 should be a good powder for this cartridge...really, anything between Re15 and H4831 could work well.

I am definitely going to see if I can find "the load" with IMR 4831...I have 16 pounds of it!

 

[tarbe]

I have rounds loaded with Re15, WW760 and IMR 4831.

I might play with Varget and IMR 4064 for the 300gr as well.

I also have 40 rounds of Hornady factory ammo that I got for $50/box delivered (a fellow sold his rifle and later found he had some ammo). 20 empties and 20 bullets cost more than $50!

 

[tarbe]

Keep in mind that data published by Hornady and the like is going to be limited to the CIP pressure standard of maximum 41k psi or 36k CUP.

This is well below what the No 1 and the Hornady brass can handle.

The brass is the weak link and I would be willing to bet body parts that the brass is good for at least 20% over the CIP limit. Probably more like 30%.

Just go slowly, work up from known safe levels, and pay attention. Do not change multiple variables! If you change brass, bullet or primer, start over.

Most of you know all this...just writing for the benefit of the uninitiated.

Have fun, be safe!

 

[lwaters]

With 16lbs. of IMR 4831 on hand I would sure try to work up a load with it. I also have some Hodgdon 100V that's a little slower than H-4350. I have a # Reloader17 but I bought it to try in my 375 Ruger. The rifle shoots good at 2200fps-2300fps. at 2400 she probably goin to belt you good.

 

[tarbe]

The rifle shoots good at 2200fps-2300fps. at 2400 she probably goin to belt you good.

Yup. Only interested in doing it for science!

 

[Shootist43]

Tarbe, it is my understanding that the ballistics of the 450/400 and the 404 Jeffery are either "identical" or extremely close. I just finished loading up a few rounds for my Jeffery. I'm using Norma brass and a load of 84 grains of H4350 pushing a 400 Gr. Swift A Frame and am looking for 2,300 FPS. I will be taking it to a range next week just to try things out. I will not be bringing my chronograph for this trip, just looking to sight the gun in and then check for accuracy. Iron sights at 50 yards. My boys and I will be bow hunting for a week. Normally we do most of our hunting in the late afternoon and early evening. We are hoping to get in some range time in the mornings. We are also going to try some of my loads in the 416 Rigby I bought from you a while back.

 

[stug]

@Shootist43 you should be right on the money with that load. My .404 Jeff gives just over 2300fps with a 400gr Woodleigh with that load.