Wounded? Yes or No?

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

This is where an issue arises. PH says one thing, Client says another, and no blood.
Going only on sound can be tricky, because both clay and Spekboom(Which you guys don't have up there) creates exactly the same sound as a hit.
Did the PH say that the animal reacted?

Yes he did see the typical stomach reaction of hunching the back, thats also why ph was convinced

 

[HankBuck]

I’ve shot a lot of whitetail as well around 200 + or -, most did react most shot with a 7mm REM Mag but one memorable bow kill was a big doe that was eating acorns at about 15yds. When she put her head down to pick another acorn I shot her and she just kept walking so I shot at her again. She kept chewing the acorn for about 10 seconds and fell over dead. Both arrows hit her in the heart. She evidently felt nothing at all.

Another was a smallish 8 pt trailing a doe was shot 3 times and never picked his head up off of the trail.

Those are the only two exceptions I can recall of whitetail not reacting to being hit. Clean misses are another story , I’ve had them stand around until I could get my nerves together and make a good killing shot.

@Hunt anything - you’ve got tougher whitetail then NJ or IL, yours can take-a-punch! Even my most perfect bow shots - thru lungs “without hitting a rib” or low heart shots - the deer always “flinched & hopped” - seemed aware that “something happened” even though they might have only gone 10 feet and stood still before wobble & fell over….even that was very rare but those few times did cause me to question “did I miss”? They also would’ve heard the sound of the bow and even that can spook them a bit — I don’t know. Whitetail seem very High Strung.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

It is not reliable to use the animals reaction to the shot as the basis for a hit. I have seen well hit animals react many different ways. Blood trail is the best benchmark that the critter is wounded. Some examples:

1.) Gemsbok at 202y shot with 308 using 180g bonded. At the shot the animal ran away with no visible reaction, no kugleschlag, nothing. PH exclaims, you missed him. I knew my shot was good but we saw what we saw. PH went of to track the beast. I walked up to where it had been standing. PH returned to say it was a clean miss. I took him to the spot where I had found only 2 drops of blood. Clearly wounded. Despite my being unable to find more blood the trackers found it dead only 60y from where it was shot.
2.) Bushbuck in the dark while night hunting. The animal was moving and upon the shot the PH declared that he heard the impact. I was not as sure of the shot since I could only see the eyes at 180y. I thought he had said it was a Duiker and so, I held 6" behind and 4" below the eyes. That turned out to be over the back of the Bushbuck. We searched in the dark for 1.5hrs and the next morning for 2hrs finding no blood or spoor PH declared it a clean miss.
3.) TN wild boar hunt with dogs with 308. Shot with 165g Nosler BT at 5ft perfect broadside shot on boar that passed thru the boiler room and out the other side. I was so close, I could see the entry wound but the boar did not flinch and ran away but dropped stone dead after 30y.
4.) The biggest, best white tail deer I had ever seen. Shooting at 30y with Winchester 94 trapper in 44mag. Fired three shots at the deer with zero reaction. It did not flinch or jump or run away and I was so close I could hit it with a rock. Had a red dot on the rifle that had gotten knocked off alignment and all shots were 8-12" high after testing. The deer just walked away with no hits. We dubbed it the Ghost Buck. That was the only deer I had ever missed.
5.) Mauser 270 on whitetail at about 80y. Buck ran down mtn to me as I was leaving my tree stand. I was out in the open field walking. Deer ran out and stopped. I was surprised at best and took a quick standing off hand frontal shot which hit high and left in shoulder grazing rib cage with 130g BT that did massive damage but deer did not react but ran right toward me. I fired three more shots as it ran past but saw no signs of impact. Found blood trail which was massive and then tracked the deer for 2hrs and about 400y before finding it dead after dark.
6.) Whitetail buck at 60-70y shot broadside with 375HH 250g TBBC. At shot deer ran about 30y and stopped to look back. On 2nd shot deer dropped in its tracks stone dead. Neither round showed any signs of expansion and was total pass thru.

Must find blood to declare a wounded animal. Lunch shots will take a while to bleed but some blood, hair, tissue should be found just behind point of impact. My 2 cents.

 

[HankBuck]

It is not reliable to use the animals reaction to the shot as the basis for a hit. I have seen well hit animals react many different ways. Blood trail is the best benchmark that the critter is wounded. Some examples:

1.) Gemsbok at 202y shot with 308 using 180g bonded. At the shot the animal ran away with no visible reaction, no kugleschlag, nothing. PH exclaims, you missed him. I knew my shot was good but we saw what we saw. PH went of to track the beast. I walked up to where it had been standing. PH returned to say it was a clean miss. I took him to the spot where I had found only 2 drops of blood. Clearly wounded. Despite my being unable to find more blood the trackers found it dead only 60y from where it was shot.
2.) Bushbuck in the dark while night hunting. The animal was moving and upon the shot the PH declared that he heard the impact. I was not as sure of the shot since I could only see the eyes at 180y. I thought he had said it was a Duiker and so, I held 6" behind and 4" below the eyes. That turned out to be over the back of the Bushbuck. We searched in the dark for 1.5hrs and the next morning for 2hrs finding no blood or spoor PH declared it a clean miss.
3.) TN wild boar hunt with dogs with 308. Shot with 165g Nosler BT at 5ft perfect broadside shot on boar that passed thru the boiler room and out the other side. I was so close, I could see the entry wound but the boar did not flinch and ran away but dropped stone dead after 30y.
4.) The biggest, best white tail deer I had ever seen. Shooting at 30y with Winchester 94 trapper in 44mag. Fired three shots at the deer with zero reaction. It did not flinch or jump or run away and I was so close I could hit it with a rock. Had a red dot on the rifle that had gotten knocked off alignment and all shots were 8-12" high after testing. The deer just walked away with no hits. We dubbed it the Ghost Buck. That was the only deer I had ever missed.
5.) Mauser 270 on whitetail at about 80y. Buck ran down mtn to me as I was leaving my tree stand. I was out in the open field walking. Deer ran out and stopped. I was surprised at best and took a quick standing off hand frontal shot which hit high and left in shoulder grazing rib cage with 130g BT that did massive damage but deer did not react but ran right toward me. I fired three more shots as it ran past but saw no signs of impact. Found blood trail which was massive and then tracked the deer for 2hrs and about 400y before finding it dead after dark.
6.) Whitetail buck at 60-70y shot broadside with 375HH 250g TBBC. At shot deer ran about 30y and stopped to look back. On 2nd shot deer dropped in its tracks stone dead. Neither round showed any signs of expansion and was total pass thru.

Must find blood to declare a wounded animal. Lunch shots will take a while to bleed but some blood, hair, tissue should be found just behind point of impact. My 2 cents.

@JG26Irish_2 - you raise good points and I agree the animals “reaction” is not reliable to determine a “miss” - because some animals show little or no reaction to being Hit… But when you see an animal “react” - ie: fall down, jump straight up-kick, hump, staggers, limp….that is a Very Good indication of a hit and almost always correct (nothing is 100% - even blood can be from an existing wound). I would always pay very close attention to the animals reaction. As far as paying a trophy fee? Many outfits will use the term “if you draw blood” You PAY.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

It is not reliable to use the animals reaction to the shot as the basis for a hit. I have seen well hit animals react many different ways. Blood trail is the best benchmark that the critter is wounded. Some examples:


Must find blood to declare a wounded animal. Lunch shots will take a while to bleed but some blood, hair, tissue should be found just behind point of impact. My 2 cents.

Don't think that I can agree with this.
A wounded animal might not react, but a missed animal doesn't reacts like its been hit. I'm not even talking about haunching up, dropping or whatever. Those are self explanatory. There are little signs that we as PH's look for that most don't even know about.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Yes he did see the typical stomach reaction of hunching the back, thats also why ph was convinced

This makes things extremely tricky, because you have to trust your PH. Especially if he's an experienced guy. He knows what he's seen, client says no blood.
Maybe our members can give some ideas as to what agreement would be acceptable in their eyes.

 

[Ragman]

I had a situation with an impala while on my first African hunt in Namibia. I had not been shooting well on this trip. This being my first time hunting in Africa as well as first time on a guided hunt I was suffering from buck fever unlike any I have at home. Anyway on day 7 after having missed twice on other impala I got another opportunity at a ram 80 yards away with a half hour of daylight left. At the shot the ram took a huge leap and was gone. I was sure I hit it and told my ph so. They searched until after dark and found no blood and no impala. He said to me that he considered it a miss and told the landowner the same thing. On the drive back to the lodge we discussed the shot and I repeated that I felt I had hit it. He said that since the landowner agreed that it was a miss I shouldn’t stress about it. We returned to that same property on day 9 and ended up sitting in a blind overlooking a waterhole. After about 4 hours and seeing only a warthog and a waterbuck, a lone impala ram walks out of the bush and headed our way. He appeared completely unhurt. The ph stopped him when he was 40 yards away and I dropped him right there. When we positioned him for photos I noticed right away that he had dried entrance and exit wounds high on his shoulders. It was the ram that I knew I had hit 48 hours before. I had planned on discussing with the outfitter that I should pay for a wounded impala but fate intervened and spared me that conversation.

 

[Tbitty]

Maybe our members can give some ideas as to what agreement would be acceptable in their eyes.

It takes evidence or trust.

Most long time hunters have a good feel for the shot and can call it hit or miss, but we have probably all called a few the wrong way. Trust in your PH (or others) goes a long way to confirming the feel of the shot, or advising if your instinct is wrong. For those who don't have the feel, trust in the PH is needed to call the shot for you.

There's also a certain level of ethics that comes into play. The hunter has to be willing to accept wounded and lost game, and the price tag that comes with it.

For those who don't want to admit a bad shot, trust the PH, or pay the price tag, then evidence (blood, hair, etc.) is really the definitive line. Almost every outfitter has a rule in the "fine print" of the contract that provides the details on how a wounded and lost animal will be defined. ... it may be as vague "as judged by the PH". When I was in Canada last year for a bear hunt, they called it the blood rule; any blood found ended your hunt except to try for recovery.

 

[HankBuck]

I had a situation with an impala while on my first African hunt in Namibia. I had not been shooting well on this trip. This being my first time hunting in Africa as well as first time on a guided hunt I was suffering from buck fever unlike any I have at home. Anyway on day 7 after having missed twice on other impala I got another opportunity at a ram 80 yards away with a half hour of daylight left. At the shot the ram took a huge leap and was gone. I was sure I hit it and told my ph so. They searched until after dark and found no blood and no impala. He said to me that he considered it a miss and told the landowner the same thing. On the drive back to the lodge we discussed the shot and I repeated that I felt I had hit it. He said that since the landowner agreed that it was a miss I shouldn’t stress about it. We returned to that same property on day 9 and ended up sitting in a blind overlooking a waterhole. After about 4 hours and seeing only a warthog and a waterbuck, a lone impala ram walks out of the bush and headed our way. He appeared completely unhurt. The ph stopped him when he was 40 yards away and I dropped him right there. When we positioned him for photos I noticed right away that he had dried entrance and exit wounds high on his shoulders. It was the ram that I knew I had hit 48 hours before. I had planned on discussing with the outfitter that I should pay for a wounded impala but fate intervened and spared me that conversation.
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@Ragman - some hits are never fatal and animal recovers - your hit is a good example and appears to have passed thru the “dead zone” = above lungs but below spine….bleeds very little and I’ve seen whitetail deer that have recovered from this wound (both arrow & bullet).

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

It takes evidence or trust.

Most long time hunters have a good feel for the shot and can call it hit or miss, but we have probably all called a few the wrong way. Trust in your PH (or others) goes a long way to confirming the feel of the shot, or advising if your instinct is wrong. For those who don't have the feel, trust in the PH is needed to call the shot for you.

There's also a certain level of ethics that comes into play. The hunter has to be willing to accept wounded and lost game, and the price tag that comes with it.

For those who don't want to admit a bad shot, trust the PH, or pay the price tag, then evidence (blood, hair, etc.) is really the definitive line. Almost every outfitter has a rule in the "fine print" of the contract that provides the details on how a wounded and lost animal will be defined. ... it may be as vague "as judged by the PH". When I was in Canada last year for a bear hunt, they called it the blood rule; any blood found ended your hunt except to try for recovery.

Great post.

 

[K E Johnson]

My best whitetail buck was years ago at maybe 40 yards. I shot him broadside, double lungs with a .375 H&H and a 300 grain Sierra hand load. I pulled the trigger and he never flinched. He stood there and I jacked another shell in. I stood there and thought there was no way I could have missed. He finally did go on a short death run with me not firing again.
One of the best bucks with a crossbow was not much different. He just never went on a death run. He walked around a little until his legs got wobbly and he collapsed.
Some time it is much easier to tell then others as far as a hit.

 

[Nevada Mike]

1. Impact sound... WHAP!... is a pretty reliable indicator

2. Animal's REACTION is important... if the animal humps up, or otherwise indicates a physical reaction.

3. Calling your shot - are you confident of your shot?

4. Tracking for 100 or more yards in the primary search. Note if the animal broke from any companions, headed downhill, or acting 'strangely. These are all possible indicators of a hit.

5. Blood on the ground or on surrounding foliage is the positive indicator.

Sometimes they are wounded and escape, whiich the worst possible outcome. Hunting in Tanzania we spotted a group of buffalo in a thicket about 100 yards uphill. Stalking to about 60 yards, we set up on a bull that was partially obscured by brush but offered a high shoulder shot. I took the shot. We heard the whack of the bullet, dust flew off the bull he humped up slightly and quickly bolted to heavier cover. "Good shot!" my PH exclaimed.
Moving up in the direction the group went, we soon found some blood and started tracking. The blood drops soon petered out. We tracked for the rest of the day, marked the spot, returning in the morning and resumed tracking. We lost the track in a brushy valley where the track mixed with a herd of buff and had to give up about noon. Buff gone. $3500 trophy fee gone. One buff on my license gone. I'd fired hundreds of hunting rounds through this rifle (404J and 400 grain A Frames) and I was ON that animal. I suspect that the bullet may have deflected... the only explanation I have for the failure. It does not feel good to lose an animal in this way.

 

[Tbitty]

@sgt_zim: that is very interesting reaction from a “Whitetail” ie: NO Reaction??
NOT whitetail deer ——those sissies can’t “take a punch”.

My first whitetail buck with bow was nearly lost due to lack of reaction and no blood trail.

He came walking in on a well used trail and stopped for a moment perfect broadside at 20 yards. I let the arrow fly and would have sworn I watched it hit 10-ring for double lung and top of heart. The buck continued his walk on down the trail and then I watched him stop at the edge of the timber under an evergreen pine for a couple minutes and figured he would go down there. But after a couple minutes of hanging out sniffing the air and ground, acting completely unphased, he continued on and out of sight like nothing happened. Meanwhile I'm in my stand dumbfounded at the lack of reaction and wondering what was happening.

When I got out of the stand and went to my arrow, it was full red from tip to nock. But there was not a drop of blood anywhere. I followed the trail he walked to the location he stopped. Nothing. Not along the trail, not where he stopped, no sign beyond in a few passes of the direction he headed. I went back to the starting point (arrow) and did it again. Still nothing. Other than the red arrow, there was zero indicators of a hit. But the arrow told me it was a for sure hit, and I still felt like I'd watched the arrow hit exactly where I wanted it to go. It was full dark by this time, so I decided to come back the next morning. I did the same search again from hit point to where he stood with still no blood found. I decided to walk the trail further just to see if I could find blood further on, and just about 30 yards further and around a bend, I found him laying dead.

Coyotes had already found him overnight, so I couldn't evaluate the insides, but the broadhead holes through both sides of hide and rib cage said it was a perfect shot, just where I thought it had hit. I can't explain how there was no blood or no reaction, but it definitely speaks to sometimes weird things happen. Without the arrow, it could have easily been called a miss.

This occurred on our own land, so it doesn't necessarily apply to the question of this thread, but had it been a guided hunt, the red arrow would have been the proof of a hit. Then it's up to us hunters (and/or guides, PH's, Trackers, etc.) to take the necessary steps for recovery as best we can. I lost the meat to coyotes, but gained a story and lesson. The cape was just long enough to salvage for a shoulder mount (coyotes tore up the back end), and the taxidermist did a good job of repair and skill to fix the nose.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I'll refer you to the Waterbuck example in post #9. Once again, playing devil's advocate.
We've been in the situation where no blood has been found. I won't charge the hunter, but will probably need to foot the bill from the landowner.

Personally, I don't think blood can be the beginning and end all. Saying this, a line has to be drawn in the sand between Outfitter and hunter. Where is that line?

My point is that blood is a certain indicator that you are paying the trophy fee.

After every shot there needs to be a thorough investigation including the exit/egress trail/track for a considerable distance to ensure that the animal is not wounded or dead.
There are plenty of circumstances where blood may not appear, as noted in plenty of examples we have all experienced.

Tracking animals in Africa has been an incredible challenge.
We are spoiled here. Imagine tracking in snow. Red blood, hair, parts all show up rather well on top of the snow. As long as it is not snowing heavily at the time you can follow the sign without much skill being required.

Reactions and impact sounds can help but they sure don't provide proof.
As a PH, they sure provide information to start the search.
Shooting into mud and sand have created impact sounds that mimic a good hit. Near misses have created reactions where the animal leaps up like its been heart shot.
All the Impala jumping strings have taught me that near misses create some incredible reactions.

Video sure has helped in a lot of circumstances. Watching the bullet/arrow hit the critter. Not much question then. Blood or no blood. Seeing that impact is proof the animal is wounded.

I have nothing but respect for the tough job that comes with making a living from hunting and guiding a client.