Wounded? Yes or No?

[Hunter-Habib]

Who's call is it on the reaction?

When in doubt, I trust the white hunter and/or the tracker.

 

[Mike B.]

Who's call is it on the reaction?

Not likely to the hunters as recoil won’t allow for you to follow the shot in all instances. A lot of times yes, but if the angle is weird and you shoot, it might bounce a tad bit more off the sticks than normal. So then that’s where the trust and experience of your PH comes into play.

I’ve seen animals fall over to a shot that weren’t even the intended target. I was hunting axis deer with my buddies in May. I was watching a buck that I thought was the main target. The shot went out, and that buck fell off all 4 legs and onto its side and then got back up and ran off. I was telling them to shoot again and they were confused because the target buck was dead. I’ve never experienced that before. I would have bet my life that the buck was hit and would have paid any trophy fee without question and I would have been dead wrong.

I personally prefer the speck of blood as the baseline but I’m never going to be the guy that argues with a wounded animal if my PH tells me he/she believes it was indeed hit and that is where trust of your PH to not screw your over comes into play.

 

[grand veneur]

I was going through some of the old threads and happened to come across a topic that made me think that it would bring about some constructive discussion which is probably due for some renewal. Hopefully, some of the members who are yet to embark on their first safari will find this useful.
The post is simply for educational purposes.

When, in your eyes as a hunter, do you accept that an animal has been wounded as opposed to a clean miss?

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There are many signs of a hit on the place where the game was standing, there is hardly any need to discuss them. The problem is more when I have shot at a game and it flees without giving any signs that it is wounded before or/and while fleeing and you find nothing on the place, how can I rule out that I missed it ?...I cannot do it !

You can maybe rule out a miss if an observer is there and has clearly saw the reaction of the game after the shot and where the bullet hit in the ground, but that is also very uncertain.

If there is the slightest suspicion of wounded game, a search is mandatory by law in our countries. Without any clear signs, a specialist with a dog is called in to help and some of the results of such searches by so-called "missed game" are sometime very surprising. Without a trained dog, something like this is not possible and this practice can hardly not be transferred to Africa. Perhaps you have more wounded game than you think.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

If there is the slightest suspicion of wounded game, a search is mandatory by law in our countries. Without any clear signs, a specialist with a dog is called in to help and some of the results of such searches by so-called "missed game" are sometime very surprising. Without a trained dog, something like this is not possible and this practice can hardly not be transferred to Africa. Perhaps you have more wounded game than you think.

Quality tracking dogs are worth gold. I would estimate that we lose 1 per 100 animals due to our extensive use of dogs down here.
It amazes me when my American hunters tell me that using blood tracking hounds in their state is illegal. I simply cannot see a good argument for such a law.

 

[VertigoBE]

I've been in this position in Africa. On an eland no less. Multiple shots taken, and at least one where I was 100% confident of where my crosshairs were pointing at. (see my recent report).

We never found any blood, leakage, hair or anything. Tracked that bull for 2.5 days, until he finally jumped over a boundary cattle fence and just kept going.

I was willing to pay for it, as I was sure that I must have hit him at least once. And I trusted my PH for him to speak the truth and act accordingly. In the end it was considered a miss, and the eland was not added to the bill. I still do not know what happened those 2.5days.

 

[375Fox]

I think a lot depends on the hunt and who I am hunting with. I’ve been lucky in Africa I’ve made good shots and think I’ve hunted with some excellent PHs so I haven’t been in this spot. I have had a few clean misses though where all agreed. If I knew I hit an animal I’d tell PH even if no signs were seen or blood was found. I’ve become a lot more selective in the PHs I’ll hunt with. I’d like to think I can trust PH’s call if an animal was hit even if we can’t find blood, but hopefully there is blood so no question in PH’s mind or mine. I have had two incidents hunting roe deer in Europe though. Neither resulted in any blood. The first appeared to be far back and animal reacted like it was hit, but no blood or other sign was found. My guides sent for dogs and said it would be found. The guides later said it was a miss. I told them what I thought but was not charged. The second incident was a very long shot on a roe deer in pouring rain on final night of hunt. We agreed a hit but couldn’t find a deer and obviously no blood in the rain. They recovered the deer the next afternoon with dogs. It can be a bad spot to be in but I’d like to think I can trust the people I chose to hunt with.

 

[everett]

I would always defer to the ph. If he says hit; I pay the trophy fee. If I really thought he was trying to just get a trophy fee when it was a clean miss, I pay the trophy fee and hunt with someone else on my next trip.

I will also say that I’m more about the hunt. If I have a good hunt and I miss the shot, I’m ok paying the trophy fee for the experience.

Never had a problem with that in Africa. Actually shot a warthog across a valley on one trip. Followed blood for awhile until it got too thick. Had shot on video, and when ph (also land owner) watched video, he refused to let me pay. He said I didn’t kill that warthog, and another hunter was gonna pay the trophy fee on him. I ended up giving him the money in another way at end of trip because he refused to take as trophy fee.

 

[HankBuck]

Man, tough question.

I shot a white tail buck a number of years ago from a tree stand, only about 65 yards or so, 30-06, 165 gr pills, slight quartering-to shot. The buck didn't even react to the shot, let alone act as though he'd been hit. He just kept walking into a privet thicket 30 or 40 yards away. I sat there stunned, asking myself "how did I miss that???"

My youngest son was with me, he was probably 7 or 8 at the time. I finally said "well, let's go down there and see if there's any blood on the ground." It turned out to be a very good hit, with a nice pool of blood on the ground where he was standing when I shot, and a patent enough blood trail that my young son was able to "lead" the tracking job, right up to the dead buck 50 or 60 yards away.

Sometimes they act like they've been shot when they haven't been, sometimes they act like they haven't been shot when they have been. I just don't have a hard and fast rule on it.

@sgt_zim: that is very interesting reaction from a “Whitetail” ie: NO Reaction??
I’ve killed many whitetail - well over 150 including both rifle, shotgun and bow. In my limited experiance they are the MOST reactive of all big game animals, they always react and violently - jumping, running, kicking,….even clean pass thrus with a bow/arrow they always “react” although sometimes only jog a few feet-stop-drop dead. With a rifle or shotgun - never had one that didn’t either drop on the spot or run like hell. What you describe matches my experiance with Elk or Moose but NOT whitetail deer ——those sissies can’t “take a punch”.

 

[Tim Blackwell]

Personally, 3 things.
1. How the shot felt.
2. The animals reaction.
3. Finding blood.

 

[Hunt anything]

@sgt_zim: that is very interesting reaction from a “Whitetail” ie: NO Reaction??
I’ve killed many whitetail - well over 150 including both rifle, shotgun and bow. In my limited experiance they are the MOST reactive of all big game animals, they always react and violently - jumping, running, kicking,….even clean pass thrus with a bow/arrow they always “react” although sometimes only jog a few feet-stop-drop dead. With a rifle or shotgun - never had one that didn’t either drop on the spot or run like hell. What you describe matches my experiance with Elk or Moose but NOT whitetail deer ——those sissies can’t “take a punch”.

I’ve shot a lot of whitetail as well around 200 + or -, most did react most shot with a 7mm REM Mag but one memorable bow kill was a big doe that was eating acorns at about 15yds. When she put her head down to pick another acorn I shot her and she just kept walking so I shot at her again. She kept chewing the acorn for about 10 seconds and fell over dead. Both arrows hit her in the heart. She evidently felt nothing at all.

Another was a smallish 8 pt trailing a doe was shot 3 times and never picked his head up off of the trail.

Those are the only two exceptions I can recall of whitetail not reacting to being hit. Clean misses are another story , I’ve had them stand around until I could get my nerves together and make a good killing shot.

 

[BRICKBURN]

When, in your eyes as a hunter, do you accept that an animal has been wounded as opposed to a clean miss?

Blood.

A friend had apparently shot at a Wildebeest.
We looked and looked in and around the area for any sign of a hit.
Finally, a tracker showed us a piece of material. It looked like a white glob. Not fat, something else.
He figured it was skin. I was not convinced.

I asked to follow the path of escape.
A hundred plus yards on the trail a dribble of blood was found. It continued steadily along the trail we followed.
At this point the Wildebeest was his, as far as I was concerned.

We followed the trail for another 800 yards to a clump of bush.
The bull was dead inside.

The wound had been a small strip of skin where he had clipped, barely, the jugular vein.
The would was less than an inch long and just dribbled blood until the animal finally succumbed to the loss of blood.

Now I know what Wildebeest skin looks like at a wound site. I'll still wait for the blood though.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Blood, if it is shot and runs off. Which I’ve had happen more than once. 3 of those 4 were heart shot. Ran 75 to 100 yards and the tracker tracked blood and we found them all relatively quickly. The PH’s I hunt with have dogs and will go back to the truck and get them or have someone bring one. I double lunged a Bushpig 2 years ago at night and a little female terrier tracked it 30-40 yards away and found it.

I’ve never taken an animal that my PH wasn’t watching and confirmed a hit or miss. I’ve missed, but grossly shot over due to a miscalculation… If memory serves me correctly, one was a Warthog and another occasion a Steenbok. Neither flinched or jumped, just ran off.

 

[1dirthawker]

Long way for an Impala to go after clipping a lung. Kudos to the PH.

he was well hit, right where i aimed, base of the neck. just went a long ways hit well. i was surprised he did not drop at the shot.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

Feom a ph point of view and im sure Marius will agree
First thing is i watch the animals reaction, 2nd the sound of the impact
Will wait a few minutes before approaching where the animal stood
Then approach, slowly, as most times animals dont go far from where they were first hit
Then take the tracks

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Blood.

A friend had apparently shot at a Wildebeest.
We looked and looked in and around the area for any sign of a hit.
Finally, a tracker showed us a piece of material. It looked like a white glob. Not fat, something else.
He figured it was skin. I was not convinced.

I asked to follow the path of escape.
A hundred plus yards on the trail a dribble of blood was found. It continued steadily along the trail we followed.
At this point the Wildebeest was his, as far as I was concerned.

We followed the trail for another 800 yards to a clump of bush.
The bull was dead inside.

The wound had been a small strip of skin where he had clipped, barely, the jugular vein.
The would was less than an inch long and just dribbled blood until the animal finally succumbed to the loss of blood.

Now I know what Wildebeest skin looks like at a wound site. I'll still wait for the blood though.

I'll refer you to the Waterbuck example in post #9. Once again, playing devil's advocate.
We've been in the situation where no blood has been found. I won't charge the hunter, but will probably need to foot the bill from the landowner.

Personally, I don't think blood can be the beginning and end all. Saying this, a line has to be drawn in the sand between Outfitter and hunter. Where is that line?

 

[Sabre]

I think what is fair to both the hunter and the PH/Outfitter is blood. I know that you are playing devil's advocate against that a bit, and I understand why. I just think that if you can point to blood, it is clear to everyone that the animal was wounded without a doubt. Also, if the PH happened to be filming the shot and you could see it on video, obviously then I would also consider it hit as well.

For me personally; if I saw a hit or reaction, if I heard the hit, or if I noticed injured behavior from the animal as it ran off, I would consider the animal hit even if we didn't find blood.

I just feel like from a business standpoint it is better to have a clear black and white metric to be able to point to evidence and call a hit or miss such as blood. Just from my own hunting experience, the vast majority of time there is blood to be found when there is a hit, even if it takes a while to find it.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I think what is fair to both the hunter and the PH/Outfitter is blood. I know that you are playing devil's advocate against that a bit, and I understand why. I just think that if you can point to blood, it is clear to everyone that the animal was wounded without a doubt. Also, if the PH happened to be filming the shot and you could see it on video, obviously then I would also consider it hit as well.

For me personally; if I saw a hit or reaction, if I heard the hit, or if I noticed injured behavior from the animal as it ran off, I would consider the animal hit even if we didn't find blood.

I just feel like from a business standpoint it is better to have a clear black and white metric to be able to point to evidence and call a hit or miss such as blood. Just from my own hunting experience, the vast majority of time there is blood to be found when there is a hit, even if it takes a while to find it.

Great reply.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

I'll refer you to the Waterbuck example in post #9. Once again, playing devil's advocate.
We've been in the situation where no blood has been found. I won't charge the hunter, but will probably need to foot the bill from the landowner.

Personally, I don't think blood can be the beginning and end all. Saying this, a line has to be drawn in the sand between Outfitter and hunter. Where is that line?

Too true marius
But where is that line
Ive made calls myself that an animal has no evidence of a hit but something keeps irking inside me go back later or the next day amd find the dead animal not too far away

Its a tough call and yes its easy to say blood but we have all had animals that are well hit and just dont bleed and we find them dead a few hundred yards away

Its a tough call to make
I hate to leave any wounded animal in the bush and will use everything(ph, tracker, dogs) in my power to find it before we say its gone, wounded or not!

An interesting story
A polish clients shot at an eland a few years ago
The ph said he was 100% sure its a hit but not well he suspects stomach due to sound of impact and the reaction of the animal
No blood was found and tracks were followed for a few hours that day
Client and agent said i cant charge him because we found no blood
I spoke to my ph again amd based on his info ,and my gut feeling, we put a tracker alone on the spoor the next morning
He started with the tracks where they left them the day before
Withing an hour he found the dead eland with a shot in the stomach

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

The ph said he was 100% sure its a hit but not well he suspects stomach due to sound of impact and the reaction of the animal
No blood was found and tracks were followed for a few hours that day
Client and agent said i cant charge him because we found no blood

This is where an issue arises. PH says one thing, Client says another, and no blood.
Going only on sound can be tricky, because both clay and Spekboom(Which you guys don't have up there) creates exactly the same sound as a hit.
Did the PH say that the animal reacted?

 

[WAB]

I once took a shot at a bear in a avalanche chute. It was about 250 yards on a steep angle. My buddy, on the bino’s called a miss, he saw the bullet impact above the bear. I said there’s no way so up the mountain we went. There was no blood where the bear was standing so I started tracking. After 50 yards I found one drop of blood. At 100 yards he was hanging off the side of the mountain in a tree stone dead, shot perfectly. Entrance and exit holes were both .30 cal. Last animal I ever shot at with a Nosler ballistic tip.