Why no lever-action rifle for Elephants?

[TheWhitetailNut]

What is truely a shame is that the savage model 1899 was never offered in a long enough action to handle large rounds.

That would be HUGE! I've always been a big model 99 man, but I'm not sure this is a sensible application. Gotta Admit, I'd love to see it though.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

That would be HUGE! I've always been a big model 99 man, but I'm not sure this is a sensible application. Gotta Admit, I'd love to see it though.

It's possible I've recently learned of a round developed in the sixties for use in the model 600 called the .350 Remington magnum. It will cycle in .308 length actions making it short enough for the model 99 action. That would be a truely devastating rifle for North American game.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

If you can convince savage to build them all take the very first left handed variant off the line.

 

[leslie hetrick]

I thought bell used very small calibers to kill hunderds of elephants, so it may depend how cool you are and being able to thread the needle. it matters little to me as I have no desire to shoot a elephant.

 

[7x57Joe]

I believe Savage made an experimental frame large enough for the 30'06 but canned the idea. As much as I adore my 99s, I don't think I would ever want to hunt elephants with them. Come to think of it, I wouldn't even hunt lion or tigers with a 22 Hi Power as was done in the early 20th century.

 

[JimP]

It's possible I've recently learned of a round developed in the sixties for use in the model 600 called the .350 Remington magnum. It will cycle in .308 length actions making it short enough for the model 99 action. That would be a truely devastating rifle for North American game.

See if you can find a Browning BLR in .358 Winchester, or a 325 Winchester Short Magnum.

 

[tigris115]

Now all we need is someone to make a lever action double in a magnum big bore and heads will surely explode.

If one of the gun experts here can sketch something like that, that would be amazing.

 

[Chago]

Bolt actions are very flat and because of this the recoil goes straight back. Or should as much as possible. Levers have a very high comb which makes it comfortable and allows your eye to quickly align with the sights. But that high comb allows for more vertical muzzle rise on the recoil. Hence even a 3030 still rises a bit and you need to re acquire your target. I couldn't imagine how bad that would be on a heavy DG caliber. Jesus that would send the muzzle to the sky. Lol

 

[Kenneth McMillan]

Browning BLR can be done in .458 win mag, .416 Ruger and .375 Ruger.
If you start with a WSM platform you have many wildcats to play with also, up to, if it fits, the .470 Rhino. This round was designed for AR-10’s and gets bloody close, if not the same, as a .470 nitro.


I think someone mentioned be savage 99 earlier. These can be done in .375/284 and .416/284.

The BLR is one of my favourite rifles. I don't know what gunsmith would be able to make it for me.

 

[TTundra]

The BLR is one of my favourite rifles. I don't know what gunsmith would be able to make it for me.

Call Aria Ballistics...I spoke to their owner about BLR conversions and hes done them

 

[Kenneth McMillan]

Thank you. I have checked the aria ballistics website. I will be calling them later.

 

[wvhunt]

I just picked up a Marlin 1895 SBL, 45-70. I'll probably never shoot anything larger and more dangerous than our average sized black bear, but I like the idea of that big bullet and the large holes it makes.

 

[crs]

"I like the idea of that big bullet and the large holes it makes."

So do I and many thousands of other 45-70 and 45-90 shooters.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Because if it jams they will stomp on you. Imagine the lawsuits if that happens.
Is it because there is just no time enough demand? Not commercially viable.
How do lever actions rate for reliability opposed to the CRF or even the Blaser R8 etc.

CBH
They make a long action BLR that would convert into a nice 458 or 375 ruger. My PH doesn't like the R8 Merkel after seeing a couple fail on DG hunts and he had to back up the clients. I don't know what the failure was but he was thinking of barring the R8 from his hunts.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

For Donald Trump, now it is time to follow the foodprints of Theodor Roosevelt and kill an Elephant with a lever gun.

A 30-30 is appropriate, I think….

HWL

Hwl
Donald trump wouldn't need a rifle to kill an elephant. He could talk it to death then deny doing it saying it was fake news. If he was even an eight of the man FDR was the USA would be happy. Just my 2 cents worth

 

[Dr Ray]

Maybe a lever action is deemed to jam more??

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

CBH in New South Wales.
Either I have failed completely to convey the fact that the current Winchester 1886 in .45-90/.458 2.4 ALREADY kills ele with 450 grain bullets at 2150 fps and that so does the .45-70 with slightly SLOWER bullets, or you just skimmed over my reply. Nothing requires a 500 grain bullet to kill an ele.
And there are the 45-110 cartridges. IMHO, the .45-90 performance is enough for the hunter, but each hunter can and must make up his own mind. I read one report where a hunter used his .460 Weatherby to stop an escaping ele at 200 yards. OK by me if it is legal.
The professional hunter that may be expected to stop a charge has reason to use any rifle of his choice that will do that job. Why not a .600 NE if he can handle it and it is legal?

In addition to the standard 1886 .458 rifles, several variants have been made in 50 caliber for Alaskan brown bear. They too should kill an ele.
Modern bullets are a far cry from the old cast 500 grain lead bullets first used to kill bison.

Please consider doing a bit of research on this matter as I can think of nothing else to say.

CBH
Sounds like you dun caught yousef a texican by the tail there boy. They rile real easy. I'd tackle one of them thar pachederms with an '86 in 50/110. That would sure hurt if'n it still had on of them curved steel but plates boy.
If it ain't invented in America they ain't interested.
Let's just say different boats float different people. To each there own as long as they are happy.

 

[Red Leg]

Bolt actions are very flat and because of this the recoil goes straight back. Or should as much as possible. Levers have a very high comb which makes it comfortable and allows your eye to quickly align with the sights. But that high comb allows for more vertical muzzle rise on the recoil. Hence even a 3030 still rises a bit and you need to re acquire your target. I couldn't imagine how bad that would be on a heavy DG caliber. Jesus that would send the muzzle to the sky. Lol

? Pretty much just the opposite. The higher the comb and thus straighter the stock, all other things being equal, a rifle has less muzzle climb and usually less perceived recoil. A problem with many earlier bolt actions and lever guns was the greater drop at heel resulting in a lower comb because the rifles were optimized for open sights. A heavy caliber Mauser from the thirties - or an early American SxS shotgun for that matter (the Brits had it figured out) - can be punishing due to that angled comb.

 

[Red Leg]

CBH
They make a long action BLR that would convert into a nice 458 or 375 ruger. My PH doesn't like the R8 Merkel after seeing a couple fail on DG hunts and he had to back up the clients. I don't know what the failure was but he was thinking of barring the R8 from his hunts.

One doesn’t see a lot of R8 Markels. I assume you are actually talking about the Blaser? Sort of like American politics, it is good to actually be informed on a subject before voicing criticism. I, like a lot of folks now, have used mine (Blaser R8) in Africa extensively. I have never had a jam and am unaware of any reported in the literature. You will find several others of us on this site who are equally experienced with the rifle. Who exactly is thinking about banning them? Where does he hunt? Considering the growing popularity of the rifle, due in large measure to its reliability, his business is going to take a hit.

 

[Chago]

? Pretty much just the opposite. The higher the comb and thus straighter the stock, all other things being equal, a rifle has less muzzle climb and usually less perceived recoil. A problem with many earlier bolt actions and lever guns was the greater drop at heel resulting in a lower comb because the rifles were optimized for open sights. A heavy caliber Mauser from the thirties - or an early American SxS shotgun for that matter (the Brits had it figured out) - can be punishing due to that angled comb.

Yes we said the exact same thing. I used the wrong word calling it the comb. The comb is on the stock. I was referring to the top of the action as you had said is much higher to help align your eye faster. Having that difference in elevation from the cheek weld to the top of the action creates the vertical muzzle rise.