Why no lever-action rifle for Elephants?

[Tam Dl]

Teddy is credited with creating the first National Park in the US, and with saving the eponymous Elk. But one does have to ask, "why was that necessary?"

He was not the only guy who shot a lot.

Ever see a punt boat?

 

[Tam Dl]

The witchery of archery : a complete manual of archery : Thompson, Maurice, 1844-1901 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

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archive.org

If I recall correctly, this is a charming story of archery in Florida post Civil War in US. Food was in short supply. But people who have read the book come away awed at the stuff they shot for the pot. And the volume.

People who have an AR tucked away so they can feed themselves off the land when society crashes, had better have a plan for the second week...

 

[Foxi]

Teddy is credited with creating the first National Park in the US, and with saving the eponymous Elk. But one does have to ask, "why was that necessary?"

He was not the only guy who shot a lot.

Ever see a punt boat?

First National Park in US was Yellowstone.
Created in 1875.Teddy was just 17 at that time
The mammalogist Meriam named this deer, which he was the first to describe scientifically, after his friend TR in 1898.
Wikipedia writes about "The desire to protect the Roosevelt elk was one of the primary forces behind the establishment of the Mount Olympus National Monument in 1909 by President Theodore Roosevelt".

 

[IvW]

Yes, trite, as in overused. "Well no PHs use it, so it's no good" is trite in relation to the question. It's not an answer, it's a blanket response.

We all you your opinions on this forum, if you do not agree to Bow or Handgun hunters taking elephant, that's your prerogative. You're on record here stating a 375 is adequate for elephant, yet I dont think you'd choose it as a backup for a charge type situation, but you recommend it to clients. So, not sure even why you're looping that in.

The original question was on lever actions used for elephant hunting. Answer is yes, they have been, and continue to be used successfully. As with any hunting, it's up to the hunter to chose their load appropriately, legally, and shoot accurately.

Yes I have my own opiniins on bow and handgun hunring elephant which I am entitled to.

Yes a 375 H&H is more than adequite with the right bullet for elephant and in many cases it is the best choice for a client due to manageable recoil which in turn results in better shot placement which is a very necessary aspect of hunting and more so for elephant hunting. And yes the 375 H&H with the right bullet has more than enough penetration for elephant hunting.

There is a vast difference between taking the first shot on an elephant which should only be taken when the client is ready and comfortable with the shot as compared to sorting out the issue after a bad shot or during a charge situation. It is not the hunters responsibility to sort that out but rather that of the PH. If the hunter can handle a larger caliber compatently so much the better but fact is many are better of with a 375 H&H.

PH's that often guide on elephant dont do so with minimum legal calibers for above reasons most will start at 458 Lott and the ones that hunt them often will step up to 500 either 500 NE, 505 Gibbs or 500 Jeff(my favourite).

And yes I have used 375 H&H for back up on elephant on more than one occasion. There is also a vast difference between a experienced elephant PH and a visting elephant hunter.

And no I have never concidered a lever action of any sorts for an elephant back up rifle....

 

[TTundra]

Yes I have my own opiniins on bow and handgun hunring elephant which I am entitled to.

Yes a 375 H&H is more than adequite with the right bullet for elephant and in many cases it is the best choice for a client due to manageable recoil which in turn results in better shot placement which is a very necessary aspect of hunting and more so for elephant hunting. And yes the 375 H&H with the right bullet has more than enough penetration for elephant hunting.

There is a vast difference between taking the first shot on an elephant which should only be taken when the client is ready and comfortable with the shot as compared to sorting out the issue after a bad shot or during a charge situation. It is not the hunters responsibility to sort that out but rather that of the PH. If the hunter can handle a larger caliber compatently so much the better but fact is many are better of with a 375 H&H.

PH's that often guide on elephant dont do so with minimum legal calibers for above reasons most will start at 458 Lott and the ones that hunt them often will step up to 500 either 500 NE, 505 Gibbs or 500 Jeff(my favourite).

And yes I have used 375 H&H for back up on elephant on more than one occasion. There is also a vast difference between a experienced elephant PH and a visting elephant hunter.

And no I have never concidered a lever action of any sorts for an elephant back up rifle....

Thats all great. However, the sweeping statment that "because PH's dont use them" response is arbitrary to the relevance of the OP. Cost (to make in effectove and legal caliber), market, and likely minimal historical nostalgia (safari wise), theres your more reasonable answer to why there aren't more.
One last time, lever actions have been used for decades on Elephants and continue to be used, members here included. Because a method of hunting isn't as popular doesn't discredit its viability or validity.

 

[IvW]

One last time, lever actions have been used for decades on Elephants and continue to be used

I must have missed out on a lot off action over my last 30 years of hunting dg especially elephants.....

Who exactly has used lever actions for decades and still do on elephants?

I know of one here who has shot 1 elephant with said setup.....
Teddy himself may have shot one as well....

 

[TTundra]

I must have missed out on a lot off action over my last 30 years of hunting dg especially elephants.....

Who exactly has used lever actions for decades and still do on elephants?

I know of one here who has shot 1 elephant with said setup.....
Teddy himself may have shot one as well....

So, you agree to my statments above that people have and still use lever actions on Elephants, for decades. Glad to see that. Best to stop derailing this thread anymore. Points have been made.

 

[IvW]

So, you agree to my statments above that people have and still use lever actions on Elephants, for decades. Glad to see that. Best to stop derailing this thread anymore. Points have been made.

So you dont know who has been using lever actions on elephants for decades???

2 does not exactly equite to decades....

Since when is talking about the topic at hand derailing it?

 

[TTundra]

So you dont know who has been using lever actions on elephants for decades???

2 does not exactly equite to decades....

Since when is talking about the topic at hand derailing it?

Google lesson #1, type it in... 5 seconds. Vince Lupo, first documented man to take big 5 (6) with a Marlin 1895 in 45-70. Try it next time, even referenced on this site...go figure, right?
"Here endeth the lesson"

one more time, and last time, I'm done derailing and entertaining.

 

[Thumper Mcgee]

Who cares if its "Possible" if the kill isn't clean and the risk of death not averted, why risk using one? i could kill an elephant with a 30-06, if used correctly; would i....... NO. this arguement also goes for people using too large of calibers and not being able to handle them properly, resulting in an unclean, potentially dangerous situation. Use what your comfortable with.

 

[crs]

Thumper said "Use what your comfortable with."

Exactly what our bullet testing team did - two Miroku/Winchester 1886 rifles, one in 45-70 and one in 45-90.(mine) The shooter was not a beginner and had killed ele and buff before with his 1886 45-70. He just does not talk about it except with his close friends and fellow DWWC members. He has a few friends on this forum that are in the biz, but that is beside the point . The technical point is that a .458 solid copper or brass bullet with MV of 2150 fps will kill any animal on this planet if placed right.

So lets all be grown ups about it and face facts.
Our team did that project for fun, experience, and the record. I do not recommend that anyone copy the project or shoot any particular rifle or caliber and do not care what others think about our doing it.
Our shooter published it from Africa daily only on the Leverguns web forum because many there were interested to see the results. We proved some bullets and disqualified others. I still use the best of the bunch.
Getting dark here in Texas and about time for supper. Adios.

 

[Tam Dl]

"There is a vast difference between taking the first shot on an elephant which should only be taken when the client is ready and comfortable with the shot as compared to sorting out the issue after a bad shot or during a charge situation. It is not the hunters responsibility to sort that out but rather that of the PH. If the hunter can handle a larger caliber compatently so much the better but fact is many are better of with a 375 H&H."

That is why I wouldn't hunt elephant: the storied part is really something one is paying huge dollars for the PH, to "enjoy". But to the extent that the PH would be willing to see you as an asset (to whatever degree) rather than a hinderence when the going gets tough, showing up with the "wrong" rifle, probably does not help.

"PH's that often guide on elephant dont do so with minimum legal calibers for above reasons most will start at 458 Lott and the ones that hunt them often will step up to 500 either 500 NE, 505 Gibbs or 500 Jeff(my favourite)."

The thing is there are tons of great calibers that when talking about the pocketbook of most (?) elephant hunting clients, would be reasonably priced (no more than 5000 dollars and as cheap as 2000.

These would be the 9.3x62; the 45-70/90/100 and Alaskan, (the 90 has cheap brass, case capacity like the 458 and cheap rifles that are CRF, and can be found with long enough barrels); the 460s (designed specifically to make major African caliber on BC, velocity, and weight); Then there are the 50s that top out at the 50-110, which has a huge case, easy reloading availability, and is pretty rare in my part of the world, but it is stock.

Are PHs going to buy these rifles, no. But in "the client gets the first shot" world, even the 45-70 could get that part done. It does have good penetration, if not as good as something like the 9.3. It does not have enough velocity. It isn't major caliber though, so why use it?

 

[HHJ56]

check out the .475 Turnbull.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I haven't read this whole thread but what President Roosevelt did create was the first wildlife refuge - Pelican Island in Florida. The wording to the title was slightly different when it was created but it's recognized as the first refuge in the refuge system. I work for the 4th largest refuge - Togiak National Wildlife Refuge, offices in Dillingham, Alaska. We're just shy of 5 million acres, with not a lot of people and no roads. It is an incredibly beautiful place.

Sorry... Not lever action or elephant related. I return you back to the original programming.