why do people not use premium bullets?

[Flewis]

I agree. I've been switching to Barnes TTSXs because they perform well in at least two of my rifles so far. But there's only a few dollars difference between buying the TSX and TTSXs and they're both great MONOMETAL bullets. My point was the large price increase for factory cup and core ammo when Remington and Sierra adorned their bullets with polymer tips. As an example, the factory .308W right now at Midway. Sierra Gamechanger tipped at $60/box. Remington Core Lokt tipped at $51 (on sale for $42). Standard Remington Core Lokt at $29. They don't show the non tipped Sierra Gameking currently but it was in in $32-35 range in the past. Barnes TTSX $55 now, I bought the Barnes when on sale a couple of months ago at Midway for $42. So, put a tip on your older designed cup and cores and jack up the price to the same or more than monometals? I'll pass on the hype and their "new" ammo.

You are So right the price of that little piece of plastic seems to double (almost) the price. We used ttsx on pg last year up to Eland and they worked great as would have tsx.

 

[C.W. Richter]

You are So right the price of that little piece of plastic seems to double (almost) the price. We used ttsx on pg last year up to Eland and they worked great as would have tsx.

'sounds a lot like the (pick your fav industry): Retail BIG coffee: (let's substitute sugar, ice/water, and cream for COFFEE, as it's the most costly ingredient-thus more profitable!) Auto: Let's substitute plastics for metal (for profitability). Also bullets. But, tack on a pointy plastic tip that preserves the exposed lead from getting marred and increases the BC a bit, and keeps bullets together a bit more on the high-V chamberings (or opens the monos better upon impact,) and you've got the next greatest thing to sell (for 2x). I like premiums for DG and for consistent long-range performance. Outside of that, they're just not necessary. In ultra-high V guns, a premium bullet may be required to stay together on the short shots (257 Wby lol nearly anything Wby!, hot 6.5s/7/30) but I consider even Nos PTs premium grade terminal performance slugs out to 400-450 yds (which they most certainly are!) Just not on DG. That was not the original intention in NA...I really wanted to start using the GMXs in a HOT 6.5, but the 143s could not group like the Berger hunting bullets. I did take a deer out west w/ one (but only 225 yds,) and when an antelope presented itself at the end of crawling cover at 430, I had to break out the Nos PT (as it grouped so much better in this particular gun!) I don't think the twist-rate made any difference (it was only 3 gr heavier.) I was hoping...but God Bless both Berger and Hdy as they sell boxes of 100 bullets (not 50 or 20 that many of the others peddle! Barnes MRX were Amazing-but shame on them for the 20-boxes for $50! I bought them all in 338 when discontinued for about $1 ea. lol) The BIG corporate mantra (Henry Ford's followed by WWII reparations sent to modern-factories-on U$ Japan's fault!) if you can make a small, cost-effective change/substitution, it'll translate into $Ms of cost savings/profits. 'Ever notice the burgers get smaller at McDs over the years? lol The price doesn't. When a private company goes public, that's the end of the original mission of the prior Liberty Safe ownership. It's no longer their baby and a for-profit portfolio piece-only. The power of Adverti$ing. That's how we wound up with Soetero, almost Clinton 2 and Biden. Oh, OMT: I hate to burst the bubble of those advertisers, but with the low Vs of the Needmore, etc. (2650-2800 you know 308/06 velocities-only smaller slugs) you only need traditional bullets for terminal performance-what they were designed to do (if they print well in your gun. If you handload, they most certainly will-unless the twist rate is lower to shoot the lightest (also industry cost-savings 140 gr went to 127, the bbl got shorter, the stock is recycled plastic, etc.) lowest SD "premium" purchase, in which case they've exercised the same trick on you as requiring Roundup-ready and GMO-to-tolerate Roundup seed. Every year, another crop of widget$ to peddle to the masses!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

You are So right the price of that little piece of plastic seems to double (almost) the price. We used ttsx on pg last year up to Eland and they worked great as would have tsx.

@Flewis
Don't you know the price if plastic has sky rocketed lately. Designing the moulds for those tittle plastic tips cost big $$$$. Top that off they are each individually weighed and hand fitted to each bullet by 50 year old virgin's wearing white silk gloves in an environmentally controlled room.

You know how hard it is to find genuine 50 year old virgin's now days.
Hope this explains why these plastic tips have gone up in price.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha
Bob

 

[akrifleman]

I just read the article below where the author comes to the conclusion that there are no significant differences between the old and the new Core-Lokt bullet. Only the polymer tip seems to be an advantage as it protects the bullet.

I hunt for almost 50 years and bullets like the Remington Core-Lokt, Winchester Power Point or Silvertip were formerly the standard for high speed cartridges like the 7mm Rem Mag or the 300 Win Mag.

Remington Core-Lokt Tipped Vs. The Original | Field & Stream

We tested Remington’s latest update to the Core-Lokt line of hunting ammo—a polymer-tipped bullet at an affordable price.

www.fieldandstream.com

Core-Lokts have been upated several times., the originals aren't the originals either. Neither are partitions, they've been equipment switched and other tweeks several times. Some people hoard old "screw machine" versions. No wonder history gets reinvented so much.

The polymer tip doesn't "protect the bullet". Don't make up stuff. The point to a polymer tip is to raise the effective BC.

BTW, Velo... I don't think Core-Lokt are the same class as partitions, just the same construction (mechanical lock vs cup and core), which was incorrectly stated.

I'm not for or against Core-Lokt bullets. I'm just against misinformation.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Core-Lokts have been upated several times., the originals aren't the originals either. Neither are partitions, they've been equipment switched and other tweeks several times. Some people hoard old "screw machine" versions. No wonder history gets reinvented so much.

The polymer tip doesn't "protect the bullet". Don't make up stuff. The point to a polymer tip is to raise the effective BC.

BTW, Velo... I don't think Core-Lokt are the same class as partitions, just the same construction (mechanical lock vs cup and core), which was incorrectly stated.

I'm not for or against Core-Lokt bullets. I'm just against misinformation.

*protect the bullet meaning: the would-be lead tip doesn't get deformed when chambering, unchambering rounds, loading magazines, bouncing around in transit (like many of the wonderful traditional bullets that killed all game on Earth). That certainly does have an effect on BC, or splitting hairs, an effect on how the bullet flies relative to an undamaged one. Like a rocket w/ a bent nosecone-it's going off-course. Been there, use "boogered up" Nos PTs for follow up, cleaning or short-range shots! I would not shoot a banged up tip at 400+ yds.

 

[akrifleman]

*protect the bullet meaning: the would-be lead tip doesn't get deformed when chambering, unchambering rounds, loading magazines, bouncing around in transit (like many of the wonderful traditional bullets that killed all game on Earth). That certainly does have an effect on BC. Been there, use "boogered up" Nos PTs for follow up, cleaning or short-range shots! I would not shoot a banged up tip at 400+ yds.

Doubling down on something made up doesn't make it true.

The tips were ONLY created for enhancing BC. Any side effect is purely coincidental. It's these "folksy observations" that start getting told like facts, when they were never so. If it so happens to be that in the real world it works out that way... fine. Its nice having a pleasant side effect in a world with so many negative ones. Skilled people have always used side effects to their advantage when they noticed them.

Now you now see Aluminum tips and ceramic tips replacing polymer tips. These are much harder tips, and can be deformed. However, extreme radar testing showed polymer tips deformed under the heat of firing, and now the industry is moving on.

post script update: flex-tip bullets for tubular magazines were exactly made for protecting the primer (thought it only fair I update and mention it, fair is fair).

 

[CoElkHunter]

As a side note, when I was in my teens in the mid '70s and living in Southern Californicate, I would drive to the Sierra bullet factory about six miles away. I would buy factory second 130gr SBT ,270 bullets for me and 165gr SBT .308 bullets for my two brothers' .308s. I would buy them by the pound and they would put them in brown (heavy) paper lunch bags. Many of the seconds would have lead extrusions on the tip. I would just break off the extrusions and handload the bullets. I also had bought some "pristine" factory bullets. I shot both the seconds and factory and they ALL mostly printed the same at 100yds. Go figure?

 

[Rule 303]

When Hornady became aware of the polymer tips deforming due to the friction heat caused by the air resistance and rotation of the bullet- This was what Hornady said - they developed a polymer tip using a more heat resistant polymer.

If the point of the bullet is deformed it has way less affect on the path of the bullet than if there is a defect to the junction of the base and shank. The tip deformation has to be fairly serve to cause the bullet to strike a non useable (for hunting purposes) distance from the rest of the group at 100mts. One of the shooting magazines published an article on this showing the experiment and results. This was a few years ago now and I cannot recall which magazine.

 

[Flewis]

@Flewis
Don't you know the price if plastic has sky rocketed lately. Designing the moulds for those tittle plastic tips cost big $$$$. Top that off they are each individually weighed and hand fitted to each bullet by 50 year old virgin's wearing white silk gloves in an environmentally controlled room.

You know how hard it is to find genuine 50 year old virgin's now days.
Hope this explains why these plastic tips have gone up in price.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha
Bob

Thanks Bob, now it makes sense.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thanks Bob, now it makes sense.

@Flewis
I'm glad it makes sense to you. I can't see why adding a plastic tip should jack the prices so high. It's only .001 cent each plastic bit for petes sake.
Bob

 

[C.W. Richter]

Doubling down on something made up doesn't make it true.

The tips were ONLY created for enhancing BC. Any side effect is purely coincidental. It's these "folksy observations" that start getting told like facts, when they were never so. If it so happens to be that in the real world it works out that way... fine. Its nice having a pleasant side effect in a world with so many negative ones. Skilled people have always used side effects to their advantage when they noticed them.

Now you now see Aluminum tips and ceramic tips replacing polymer tips. These are much harder tips, and can be deformed. However, extreme radar testing showed polymer tips deformed under the heat of firing, and now the industry is moving on.

post script update: flex-tip bullets for tubular magazines were exactly made for protecting the primer (thought it only fair I update and mention it, fair is fair).

What I say re: the tips is absolutely, irrefutably true. What you say builds upon that "the tips were ONLY created for enhancing BC." Hmm, so you're saying the tips have an effect on BC? So if we break those tips, is the BC effected? ?? ??? The answer is YES. LOL The tips on the TSSX had a dual mission; better BC and facilitating expansion upon impact-especially in certain V cartridges that would simply poke an archery field point hole through an animal (been there, done that and so have many others who chimed in on earlier posts here re: the TSXs. Fine for certain Vs and definitely DG.) Newer material tips is one in the same...big business have to invent new widgets for the big sale each season! Tried those rubber tipped bullets in kids' 30-30s long ago...the bent/contorted ones also didn't fly so well and we had some (not full powder charge) ones that literally bounced off deer (doe, in the rain at 50 yds.) LOL Duds. We switched up to full power handloaded RNs after that and to quote Roger Raglin ("Those deer got acquainted with the ground!") lol My son was a dentist in your town. Are you in sales and marketing for those next great bullets??

 

[C.W. Richter]

@Flewis
I'm glad it makes sense to you. I can't see why adding a plastic tip should jack the prices so high. It's only .001 cent each plastic bit for petes sake.
Bob

they should just be brutally honest...."wee offfrrerrring the new Infration-Fightaaa Burrret." Pls buy, pretty video. Somehow i pic them being pimped out to China for greater profitability after the original designer selling out...Like "Liberty" safes.

 

[CoElkHunter]

What I say re: the tips is absolutely, irrefutably true. What you say builds upon that "the tips were ONLY created for enhancing BC." Hmm, so you're saying the tips have an effect on BC? So if we break those tips, is the BC effected? ?? ??? The answer is YES. LOL The tips on the TSSX had a dual mission; better BC and facilitating expansion upon impact-especially in certain V cartridges that would simply poke an archery field point hole through an animal (been there, done that and so have many others who chimed in on earlier posts here re: the TSXs. Fine for certain Vs and definitely DG.) Newer material tips is one in the same...big business have to invent new widgets for the big sale each season! Tried those rubber tipped bullets in kids' 30-30s long ago...the bent/contorted ones also didn't fly so well and we had some (not full powder charge) ones that literally bounced off deer (doe, in the rain at 50 yds.) LOL Duds. We switched up to full power handloaded RNs after that and to quote Roger Raglin ("Those deer got acquainted with the ground!") lol My son was a dentist in your town. Are you in sales and marketing for those next great bullets??

I'm now thinking titanium tipped bullets? No deformation and super enhanced BC and add another $10/box for ammo? Penetrate the hides of T Rexs and Triceratops or the bodies of old Chevy trucks? What's not to like? LOL

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'm now thinking titanium tipped bullets? No deformation and super enhanced BC and add another $10/box for ammo? Penetrate the hides of T Rexs and Triceratops or the bodies of old Chevy trucks? What's not to like? LOL

@CoElkHunter
But will the help a 243 become a game cartridge. Me thinks not.
Nothing will help that cartridge.
Bob

 

[C.W. Richter]

I'm now thinking titanium tipped bullets? No deformation and super enhanced BC and add another $10/box for ammo? Penetrate the hides of T Rexs and Triceratops or the bodies of old Chevy trucks? What's not to like? LOL

I think 375, 416 solids and up will work fine when the day comes... Oh, and older school FMJs (orig military rounds).

 

[C.W. Richter]

@CoElkHunter
But will the help a 243 become a game cartridge. Me thinks not.
Nothing will help that cartridge.
Bob

when anyone ever proudly said to me ..."243" i just cringed and felt sorry for them. Ladies/kids-Ok. 'Found plenty of dead deer days later w/ 87 gr varmint bullets in 'em where they expired fractions of miles away (while stalking w/ my 257, 6.5 or 300s).

 

[CoElkHunter]

@CoElkHunter
But will the help a 243 become a game cartridge. Me thinks not.
Nothing will help that cartridge.
Bob

I don't know Bob? Maybe an encapsulated depleted uranium bullet tip? LOL

 

[C.W. Richter]

I'm now thinking titanium tipped bullets? No deformation and super enhanced BC and add another $10/box for ammo? Penetrate the hides of T Rexs and Triceratops or the bodies of old Chevy trucks? What's not to like? LOL

They're RE-usable. Just wipe off w/ FauciTM hand sanitizer and reload! Recycling. Positive.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I think 375, 416 solids and up will work fine when the day comes... Oh, and older school FMJs (orig military rounds).

That's a LOT of titanium for the tips of those rounds. That'll be an extra $20/box. LOL

 

[C.W. Richter]

That's a LOT of titanium for the tips of those rounds. That'll be an extra $20/box. LOL

The Biden's associates in DE extract it from stolen exhaust systems and sunken azn airliners, thus making it v. good for the DNC till.