Why avoid Hornady DG bullets and ammunition?

[sheephunterab]

No dependant on muzzle velocity and game being hunted.

 

[Paul Edwards]

my question to the users of hornady dgx bullets: would YOU bet your life on them? (DANGEROUS game expanding)

if so, more power to you. after reading about multiple failures on this forum, and seen a couple failures myself, AND having much better choices available, i gotta say "not for me!"

nothing makes a person a believer or change their ways quicker than a bad lesson or a near death experience. i can learn from others.

when the trigger is pulled, there is only the bullets integrity and ability to do its job that matters. its already been aimed, the bullet is away and it alone can determine what will happen next. will it fail (or work sometimes?) nothing makes me feel more comfortable in bear country that a gun that works sometimes. same with bullets.

i just wish that hornady would listen to the guys that use their product and put/make a better bullet in their ammo.

With my tongue firmly planted in my cheek...

I have decided to quit my job and go into business selling sticks with which to beat dead horses... I am going to make a fortune!

 

[1dirthawker]

well,

good luck with em. i hope you have great success.

 

[IdaRam]

Is this good? Sorry, I'm not much of a rifle hunter but do find this interesting. I read several comments about weight retention and it seems that this bullet lost nearly a third of its weight which doesn't sound like good performance?

Accubonds generally speaking have a thin jacket at the nose, which coupled with the plastic tip causes rapid inital expansion. The jacket thickens quickly which controls expansion beyond a certain point. This in conjuction with being "bonded" generally produces a fairly regular shaped mushroom, but they do tend to lose some weight due to the rapid initial expansion. They are a good choice for up to and including "medium" applications from a .375.
Medium velocity, medium bone structure, medium game. Not a heavy game bullet. Great choice for lion, zebra, wildebeest. Not a great choice at all for Buff.

 

[sheephunterab]

@1dirthawker I've had the good fortune to test a wide variety of bullets from most manufacturers in both test mediums and live animals and the performance of most bullets is pretty predictable I don't rely on the advertising copy but rather look at the construction and can make a pretty educated guess as to how it will perform. Impact velocity is the single biggest factor that affects terminal pertformance and I select my bullets based on what chambering I'm shooting, what ranges I expect I'll be shooting, the animal I'm hunting. All bullet types have a performance envelope where they perform ideally and stray outside that and you'll see less than optimal performance. It's hardly failure but rather expected results. That doesnt mean they aren't deadly it just means they may fragment excessively or at the other end of their scale they may fail to expand.

We once tested a pistol bullet in muzzleloader that was non toxic and designed to totally fragment when shot in confined spaces and not ricochet. It was being designed for use inside ships and subs. There was some interest in promoting it as a possible hunting bullet and we ran it through quite a number of wild hogs. The results were as expected. It penetrated enough to blow the heart to a million pieces from the disentgrating bullet but all the pieces stopped on the ribs on the far side. The biggest was like a grain of pepper. Obviously it wasn't ideal terminal performance and was fragmentation to the greatest extreme but it did demonstrate that virtually any bullet will kill with a well placed shot.

People that want perfect bullet performance from one bullet under all conditions are delusional. That bullet doesn't exist but that doesn't mean if we experience less than optimal performance from straying outside the performance envelope that a bullet isn't deadly if placed well. I guess my point is that virtually any bullet will kill if placed properly and by selecting bullets designed to match our chambering, range and animal we can expect even better terminal performance. Luck has little to do with it. Anyhow, before I have to buy one of Paul's sticks I'm off to bed.

 

[IvW]

There are better more reliable options for DG.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

With my tongue firmly planted in my cheek...

I have decided to quit my job and go into business selling sticks with which to beat dead horses... I am going to make a fortune!

somebody beat you to it.......................

 

[ActionBob]

What I don't understand is why anyone would have a conversation regarding the use of any Hornady product. There are several products on the market that have proven positive results including A Frames, North Forks and AccuBond to name just a few.

Hornady refuses to accept and/or admit that it has a serious problem with one of their products, a product that people rely on to protect them from dangerous animals. If they refuse to acknowledge such a serious problem, what leaves you to believe that quality control is at the forefront of their other products.

Today, we have the luxury of choosing from an array of quality bullets and hunting products. I personally will not experiment with questionable products when there are so many products on the market with proven track records. Engaging in a conversation regarding the use of Hornady products is something I personally won't waste any time on debating. My time can be better spent on discussing the merits of wearing multi-colored socks.

I think the underlying real issue that brought the topic to life again was the purchase and intended use on a DG hunt of a Ruger 416 by someone who does not reload. And wants to justify using the inferior stuff because it's easy compares to finding a way to get something loaded in a better suited bullet, such as an A Frame.

Just my opinion, but that's why I think anyone would discuss this. Oh and of course a Horndy paid hack would also want to attempt to discuss it. As would guys who truly don't want to see anyone get hurt on a DG hunt because of a bullet failure.

 

[Buff-Buster]

I love discussions like this! There is as much chance of everyone agreeing on the "perfect" bullet as there is on everyone agreeing on the " perfect all around caliber". While I'm not a expert on the topic, by any means, I have been reloading for 40 years. During this time I have tried, pretty much all of the bullet manufacturers at one point or another. I must note that in the last 40 years, bullet construction and accuracy have advanced tremendously. The bullets of today are far better constructed than anything when I began reloading. Is there a "perfect all around bullet" that will perform flawlessly on all game? Heck no. Just like there is not one caliber perfect for all game. Over the years I have had two criteria for bullets I load. 1) They must meet my accuracy requirements. 1" MOA or better. 2) They must "hold together" and not disintegrate on impact (early Sierra/Speer designs). Over the years I have settled on Nosler Accubond's and Barnes TSX, exclusively. Both shoot extremely accurately in my rifles. I use the Accubond's for all thin skinned animals up to and including Eland. I would also use them on Lion and Leopard should I ever hunt them someday. For the tougher animals (Ele, buff, hippo, croc, giraffe, big bears) I would go with the Barnes TSX. Before I get crusified, I know there are other quality bullets out there, Swift A-Frames, Northforks, etc. I chose to go with those that meet my criteria and have been proven by personal experience to work for me. Again, 40 years ago I would have loved to have the choices we have today!

On another note, factory ammo has also made leaps and bounds in improvements over the last 40 years also. Manufacturers have taken the hint and now load with premium bullets other than their own. Accuracy with factory rounds has also improved dramatically. The non-reloader has an opportunity to purchase accurate rounds with quality bullets not available years ago.

Again, to each his own. My opinions only, and we all know what opinions are like! Lol

 

[Gert Odendaal]

As pointed out this is a extremely common subject , we have our share in South Africa where local hunters swear by PMP bullets ( local manufactured bullets in South Africa) and most South African hunters swear at PMP bullets. My take on this....I will never be a more accurate shot than my rifle that I am using and will not perform better than the bullets I shot from my rifle...especially PMP bullets /Impala bullets I usually make use of to hunt..
I tend not to lay blame om mechanical devices since a mechanical device rarely fails...but the human using these devices certainly fails always when things go south...as the old proverb indicated: there are horses for courses...use a hammer to drive a nail into wood and not a mallet...

 

[Paul Edwards]

I think the underlying real issue that brought the topic to life again was the purchase and intended use on a DG hunt of a Ruger 416 by someone who does not reload. And wants to justify using the inferior stuff because it's easy compares to finding a way to get something loaded in a better suited bullet, such as an A Frame.

Just my opinion, but that's why I think anyone would discuss this. Oh and of course a Horndy paid hack would also want to attempt to discuss it. As would guys who truly don't want to see anyone get hurt on a DG hunt because of a bullet failure.

Thanks to ActionBob just buying up my entire inventory of sticks, I can now afford to go on Safari with my 458 Win Mag, 460 Weatherby Mag and, oh yeah, my POS 416 Ruger.

My original question, ActionBob, was an honest one seeking honest answers from ethical, experienced, hunters, particularly those experienced in DG. Clearly, you missed at least two of my replies, or chose to ignore them.

Although I actually am thankful for your input, and take it to heart, I am disappointed that you were unable to communicate your opinion in a manner consistent with hunters speaking, or rather writing, from a mature adult perspective. I do believe that you have a sincere concern for the safety of fellow hunters, and am grateful, although it was difficult to discern through the thick haze of victrial. There was no need to morph your ferverent hatred of Hornady DG into a vile judgement against your fellow hunters.

I wish you happy hunting so that you may recover from this thread with a smile and a lowering of your blood pressure.

 

[Philip Glass]

I remember years ago choosing not to use Hornady, and at the time Barnes was to go-to, both for bullets and ammo (when not handloading.). Since things changed at Hornady, I decided to give them a try (bullets and ammo) and have been pleased. I see from old Post (years old) and new posts (days old) that I am in the minority. When I ask my 40+ years hunting mentors what they thought, none have used the new Hornady stuff because they didn't use their old stuff. Granted, I am not saying it's the best on the market...but if we only buy the best of everything, wouldn't we all be hunting with a Purdey, Holland and Holland's, Rigby, or the like, (All of which are out of my budget.) So, I am good with a 458 Win Mag and 460 Weatherby Mag (where my budget topped off), both of which kick like angry mules. I do favor the Mauser 98 action, and so recently added a tamer 416 Ruger to the inventory. Will my RCBS allow me to ditch this Hornady round, if you folks reason it to be so bad? Thanks

I have both .375 and .416 Ruger and both of them with factory Hornady ammo were the most inaccurate guns I've ever owned. At first I thought it was me venturing into the big calibers. Then I went to SAAM Safari Shooting school to sort it out and was given some custom loaded ammo. From that point on I was doing great on accuracy and happy with my guns and my ammo from Safari Arms.
I never shot anything with that ammo because I couldn't consistently hit a small plate at 50 yards!
Regards,
Philip

 

[Royal27]

I have both .375 and .416 Ruger and both of them with factory Hornady ammo were the most inaccurate guns I've ever owned. At first I thought it was me venturing into the big calibers. Then I went to SAAM Safari Shooting school to sort it out and was given some custom loaded ammo. From that point on I was doing great on accuracy and happy with my guns and my ammo from Safari Arms.
I never shot anything with that ammo because I couldn't consistently hit a small plate at 50 yards!
Regards,
Philip

My experience with my 375 was exactly the same. Terrible. Below are 3 shot groups of Hornady and Barnes ammo, shot the same day. And yes, that Hornady grouping is repeatable from the 375.... The group rattled me as it was first of the day and I thought my shooting had gone to hell.

My Lott actually shoots the junk quite well and is fine for paper only.

 

[gizmo]

my question to the users of hornady dgx bullets: would YOU bet your life on them? (DANGEROUS game expanding)

if so, more power to you. after reading about multiple failures on this forum, and seen a couple failures myself, AND having much better choices available, i gotta say "not for me!"

nothing makes a person a believer or change their ways quicker than a bad lesson or a near death experience. i can learn from others.

when the trigger is pulled, there is only the bullets integrity and ability to do its job that matters. its already been aimed, the bullet is away and it alone can determine what will happen next. will it fail (or work sometimes?) nothing makes me feel more comfortable in bear country that a gun that works sometimes. same with bullets.

i just wish that hornady would listen to the guys that use their product and put/make a better bullet in their ammo.

Absolutely not and never again in ANY caliber. I dont care what those who are paid by Hornady to push their flawed product say.

 

[lwaters]

If you want really good accuracy you probably better reload. I think most factory ammo is subpar and runs a couple hundred feet per second under their advertise velocity. Pretty much false advertisement

 

[gizmo]

Thanks to ActionBob just buying up my entire inventory of sticks, I can now afford to go on Safari with my 458 Win Mag, 460 Weatherby Mag and, oh yeah, my POS 416 Ruger.

My original question, ActionBob, was an honest one seeking honest answers from ethical, experienced, hunters, particularly those experienced in DG. Clearly, you missed at least two of my replies, or chose to ignore them.

Although I actually am thankful for your input, and take it to heart, I am disappointed that you were unable to communicate your opinion in a manner consistent with hunters speaking, or rather writing, from a mature adult perspective. I do believe that you have a sincere concern for the safety of fellow hunters, and am grateful, although it was difficult to discern through the thick haze of victrial. There was no need to morph your ferverent hatred of Hornady DG into a vile judgement against your fellow hunters.

I wish you happy hunting so that you may recover from this thread with a smile and a lowering of your blood pressure.

I dont really believe that the sarcasm was intended towards you in Bob's comment. I think it was more leaned toward a particular poster who continues to contradict himself and attempt to justify piss poor performance of an obviously inferior product with major issues. Hornady's idea of a solution to said problem is to blame hunters and pay people to argue and defend this crap to the death at any cost.

 

[gizmo]

Thanks to ActionBob just buying up my entire inventory of sticks, I can now afford to go on Safari with my 458 Win Mag, 460 Weatherby Mag and, oh yeah, my POS 416 Ruger.

My original question, ActionBob, was an honest one seeking honest answers from ethical, experienced, hunters, particularly those experienced in DG. Clearly, you missed at least two of my replies, or chose to ignore them.

Although I actually am thankful for your input, and take it to heart, I am disappointed that you were unable to communicate your opinion in a manner consistent with hunters speaking, or rather writing, from a mature adult perspective. I do believe that you have a sincere concern for the safety of fellow hunters, and am grateful, although it was difficult to discern through the thick haze of victrial. There was no need to morph your ferverent hatred of Hornady DG into a vile judgement against your fellow hunters.

I wish you happy hunting so that you may recover from this thread with a smile and a lowering of your blood pressure.

On a brighter note, I do believe the 416 Ruger is a superstar of a caliber but the only factory offering is the inferior Hornady garbage. The solution is to have a company load some for you with A frames or another superior premium bullet.

 

[Paul Edwards]

I dont really believe that the sarcasm was intended towards you in Bob's comment. I think it was more leaned toward a particular poster who continues to contradict himself and attempt to justify piss poor performance of an obviously inferior product with major issues. Hornady's idea of a solution to said problem is to blame hunters and pay people to argue and defend this crap to the death at any cost.

Thank you, Gizmo...and I agree that ActionBob had a couple of different hunters in mind with his latest spew and since I do reload some, and am not a paid hack, I figured I knew who he was 'targeting.'

This site has become an important resources for me, as I am certain it has been for many of the longtime members. Thank you for being an important participant. I do hope that new members do not confuse what the AH stands for when they read some of the posts by those lacking civil communication skills.

 

[1dirthawker]

sheep hunter,
well said and i agree with most of your points. most of what you are discussing is accurate and basically just physics/science. you are right, its amazing what even a crappy bullet will get done, if things are perfect.

my point about the DGX bullet, its a dangerous game bullet. in my never to be humble opinion, not a very good one. can you kill stuff with it, yep. lots of people have, me too with my 375 ruger. but i have seen bullet failures on moose and a brown bear.

my concern for ME, that a failure occurs and the bullet fragments, fails to penetrate in a line or deep enough when i am in a pinch and really HAVE to have the bullet do its job. or, i end up tracking (good luck up here in an alder thicket) a wounded animal because the bullet failed. since i guide brown bears part time, the possibility is real.

thats it. seems i am not alone in my opinion or concerns. i did contacte hornady about my concerns. the guy was nice, said they would consider what i said. maybe they did.

now, go back 30 years ago. i was hunting on Afognak Island, (right next to Kodiak island) with a 7mm 175 gr. sierra game king at about 2900 fps. shot a deer angling away, hit in front of hip, found a bullet jacket in off shoulder. i called sierra and gave them the story, asked if they had considered a bonded core bullet.

the guys asks me, well, did it kill the deer? i said of course it did, but if i had made the same shot on a moose it would likely have gotten away due to lack of penetration. sierra guy said he didn't see the problem and they were not going to change their bullets. too bad, seems they missed a bull market for good bullets.

anyway, was not jabbing at you or anyone else that likes DGX bullets. i don't, from previous issues that I consider a failure.

ok, now where did i leave my stick, there is a dead horse over there that needs a couple more licks!

 

[ActionBob]

Hi @Hank2211
I know you mentioned a Hornady employee told you at DSC that the DGX is a "bonded" bullet. It is my opinion, and only that, this employee may have simply mis-spoke. ???
Consider this; Hornady offers both "InterLock" and "InterBond" bullets. They are different.
View attachment 192217

View attachment 192218

Hornady does not refer to their "InterLock" bullets as bonded, but as the core and the jacket being "locked" together, not "bonded" together.
I do not have first hand, eyewitness experience inside Hornady's manufacturing facilities, so I cannot say definitively what is or is not the case, just that this is my understanding and semi-educated opinion.
Take it for what it's worth
And also please know I am not trying to spark a "discussion" that will add another 18 pages
My very best!

Sorry Dan, gonna have to add a bit to this...

I have hunted African PG with a 6.5 Creedmoor using Hornady InterBond bullets with very good success. The PH on that first hunt actually guided the Hornady guys while they were testing the 6.5 Creedmoor and he told me he had great faith in InterBonds and in fact hand loaded them for his personal use... He also told he would not use InterLocks and considerd them inferior. He did no DG, and was not shooting anything over 30 caliber.

So what I don't understand is why does Hornady not develop an InterBond in the DG calibers and use that technology? Seems it would have longer term sustainability than investing in all the advertising they do on the DGX? I'm sure they are financially successful, but why keep up the false advertising and ticking hunters off by dismissing any and all claims against their product, when they have the technology in the smaller calibers to potentially develop a much better product in the DG calibers?