Who was at fault, me or the PH?

Speedster

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.In another thread that has garnered a lot of interest and replies, a person post about his bad experience with his PH and he was unhappy with an animal he shot that the PH told him to. I did not want to hijack the thread but I had a somewhat similar experience several years ago on my first trip to Africa and in hindsight I have wondered if I was at fault.
Here is what happened:'

We spotted a group of gemsbok about a half mile ahead and not wanting to spook them, jumped off the safari truck to begin a stalk. It was getting towards evening and the sun was getting low and straight in front of us so there was a considerable amount of glare as the sun was still above the treetops. It was a pretty dense area which allowed us to catch up to the gemsbok using the dense foliage as cover.

We finally got close and set up for a shot but the sun glare was so severe I had trouble seeing anything through the scope. We swung around to the right to get a better angle. We got a stroke of luck as we found a very small opening in the bush and the gemsbok started walking through it in single file. That gave me a chance for a shot. The PH said he would tell me when he saw one to shoot. I set up and was concentrating on the spot at which I could take the shot and finally the PH saw one walk through and said to shoot, which I did. It was a good shot and we found the gemsbok after a very short tracking.

When I walked up to it, my heart sank. One of the horns was bent back and splintered in 3 or 4 pieces. It was also very short. THE PH said that I did not have to pay for it and could hunt anther one since the damaged horn was less than 24 inches. That was fine but if I would have had to pay for that animal I would not have been happy. The PH even admitted to me he saw that the gemsbok's horn was damaged. As a newbie I did not say anything but in hindsight it rankled me.

So a couple things I have thought about and I am not sure If it was my fault or the PH's.
1. The owner said I could shoot another since one horn was less than 24 inches and their policy was a horn had to be at least that length. He never mentioned that the damaged horn made any difference and it appeared it was all about the length. I did not agree but said nothing. It made me feel that it was my responsibility to determine if an animal has a horn that is damaged (or just plain ugly) and I don't know why the PH did not tell me he saw that the horn was damaged.
2. I was naively relying on the PH to tell me when to shoot and because of the lighting conditions, was really concentrating on the spot rather than looking at the animal's horns. Also, since the animal was walking I had to make a snap shot before it disappeared. Was this my responsibility also?

I am not looking for any type of vindication. Just wondering from others if maybe it was on me. I have thought about the issue many times in the past and after reading the other post with a similar problem it made me wonder if I should have talked to the owner about what I felt or since I got the oppotunity to shoot another animal just keep my mouth shut and drop it.
 
Bad call was made on an animal and you shot it it. After the fact, it was determined a mistake was made and you were offered another. I don’t see any problem at all. Things happen. They rectified it. I’ve seen that happen twice. Both times with my son. Bad call by the PH or tracker. Both times he was offered another animal. It’s hunting.
 
When a mistake is made, a quick offer to fix it goes a long way. The hunter's attitude helps tremendously. I would call that a learning lesson that didn't cost you any money. All around, the best deal for everyone. Thanks for posting about it. Everyone is human, even an African P.H.
 
Just my opinion but it's on both you and the PH.
More so on the PH.

The PH saw the gemsbok had a broken horn and still told you to shoot.

You didn't pay attention to the quality of animal you were pulling the trigger on.

You were both at fault for not judging the animals due to daylight getting short and rushing to mark off an animal on your list.

Since you were offered a chance for a better quality animal then IMO all well and good, no need to fret over the incident.
 
Hey stuff happens.
Gemsbok for me also. We eased into a group. I'm on sticks. PH says second from right. I shoot and it drops on spot. He says looks like a hit keep track on it. That's when I come off gun and say "it dropped.
I was on wrong animal. There were five I only saw four. It was still a good animal but not the 45+ inch one I was supposed to have shot.
Things happen. All I can say. I was happy and paid for it and did take the bigger one also two days later.
 
The owner and the PH recognized the error and tried to make it right. Thats all you can ask...

I have learned to trust my Ph's. If the PH says shoot the 3rd one from the left, I am going to do my best to shoot the 3rd one from the left, unless I have a really good reason not to do so. examples for not doing so might be there is something in the way that that he can't see, or his angle is significantly different than mine.....
If it turns out that his call was less than our expectation before pulling the trigger, then we will deal with it afterwards....I
have never had that happen, but it obviously does and thats all part of hunting....
 
Actually, it was a good call for everyone. A broken horn animal is just meat (except buffalo ... those are sought after trophies). It's wasting range. Especially defective horns. Don't want that trash in the gene pool. Sometimes the shooter pays a modest fee if the PH takes the meat. If landowner takes the carcass, sometimes no fee. He sells the meat. And gemsbuck is sweet meat! Always welcome in any cooler. Of course, hunter may not be happy paying the daily PH fee and culling an animal. I'm okay with culling anytime a bad animal is encountered. But I've been over four times and filled my list a long time ago.

OP got to shoot an extra animal. Bonus. I'm sure it might have been a bit disappointing at first, but he doubtless soon discovered lots of animals were about. More hunting = more fun. No need for anyone to be concerned about who was at fault. He killed an animal that absolutely needed to be harvested. Give him a medal.
 
We hunters from North America don't know Squat about judging trophies in Africa. We have to rely on our PH to qualify the animal we shoot. The other thing is for any guided hunt it is a bad idea to dwell on the horns or Antlers. Your job is to make a good shot.
 
Bad call was made on an animal and you shot it it. After the fact, it was determined a mistake was made and you were offered another. I don’t see any problem at all. Things happen. They rectified it. I’ve seen that happen twice. Both times with my son. Bad call by the PH or tracker. Both times he was offered another animal. It’s hunting.
I agree completely with Flipper Dude. In all my safaris Just me I always listen to my PH. Just me it is not my job nor do I have the expertise to score an animal. As soon as I meet my PH before the hunt we discuss what a representative animal will be. Therefore the PH knows what I am looking for and has never ever disappointed me! As with all things good communication BEFORE a possible shooting situation solves almost everything.
 
I would hate to be a PH.
 
It worked out fine.
1) if he noticed the horn in that split second and to,d you to shoot he almost certainly did so as a Cull at that point. As someone pointed out they utilize the meat but a One Horned/broken horned Gemsbuck is a danger to others and should be shot.
2) if he didn’t notice it technically before but did at that split second the shot went off (also very possible) he quickly realized the F up and made it right

I would ONLY be pissed off if they tried to get me to pay for it as a trophy when it clearly was a Cull

I’ve shot many culls like this including Broken Gemsbuck either for Free of say $200.
I shot 4 broken horned Kudu on one hunt for $600 total lol. All nice bulls. I was happy to have the opportunity
 
.In another thread that has garnered a lot of interest and replies, a person post about his bad experience with his PH and he was unhappy with an animal he shot that the PH told him to. I did not want to hijack the thread but I had a somewhat similar experience several years ago on my first trip to Africa and in hindsight I have wondered if I was at fault.
Here is what happened:'

We spotted a group of gemsbok about a half mile ahead and not wanting to spook them, jumped off the safari truck to begin a stalk. It was getting towards evening and the sun was getting low and straight in front of us so there was a considerable amount of glare as the sun was still above the treetops. It was a pretty dense area which allowed us to catch up to the gemsbok using the dense foliage as cover.

We finally got close and set up for a shot but the sun glare was so severe I had trouble seeing anything through the scope. We swung around to the right to get a better angle. We got a stroke of luck as we found a very small opening in the bush and the gemsbok started walking through it in single file. That gave me a chance for a shot. The PH said he would tell me when he saw one to shoot. I set up and was concentrating on the spot at which I could take the shot and finally the PH saw one walk through and said to shoot, which I did. It was a good shot and we found the gemsbok after a very short tracking.

When I walked up to it, my heart sank. One of the horns was bent back and splintered in 3 or 4 pieces. It was also very short. THE PH said that I did not have to pay for it and could hunt anther one since the damaged horn was less than 24 inches. That was fine but if I would have had to pay for that animal I would not have been happy. The PH even admitted to me he saw that the gemsbok's horn was damaged. As a newbie I did not say anything but in hindsight it rankled me.

So a couple things I have thought about and I am not sure If it was my fault or the PH's.
1. The owner said I could shoot another since one horn was less than 24 inches and their policy was a horn had to be at least that length. He never mentioned that the damaged horn made any difference and it appeared it was all about the length. I did not agree but said nothing. It made me feel that it was my responsibility to determine if an animal has a horn that is damaged (or just plain ugly) and I don't know why the PH did not tell me he saw that the horn was damaged.
2. I was naively relying on the PH to tell me when to shoot and because of the lighting conditions, was really concentrating on the spot rather than looking at the animal's horns. Also, since the animal was walking I had to make a snap shot before it disappeared. Was this my responsibility also?

I am not looking for any type of vindication. Just wondering from others if maybe it was on me. I have thought about the issue many times in the past and after reading the other post with a similar problem it made me wonder if I should have talked to the owner about what I felt or since I got the oppotunity to shoot another animal just keep my mouth shut and drop it.
I can't see see anything to be rankled about. On my first safari I was asked to shoot a kudu bull that clearly had a broken horn. The property owner just wanted it culled. As it turned out I couldn't get the shot before the bull jumped the low fence and was on a neighbor property where I couldn't shoot it. If I could have gotten the shot I gladly would have taken it. On my last trip we saw an impala with a messed up horn and the property manager asked me to take it "for camp meat." No problem. Happy to take it.
 
Every business makes mistakes. I’m surprised that your PH knowingly told you to shoot that animal but he made it right, and that’s the part that counts.
 
That happened to me also, except it was a young one on my first trip. We had been stalking a group of gemsbok weaving in and out of the trees. At about 200 yards, it was now or never. There was a great cow in the lead that we were hoping for. There was one more clearing before they would disappear, so that’s where we concentrated on. PH told me to take the cow when she came out of last set of trees. A gemsbok came out, he said to shoot. I shot, it dropped, and it was high 5 time. But wait, it had a serious case of ground shrinkage when we walked up. Evidently, a younger one had swapped places with the big cow in the last trees. I didn’t pay for it, and got a nice bull a few days later. We all had a good laugh about it that night. The ranch owner rubbed it in on both of us, but he wasn’t mad at all. “Mistakes happen!”
 
On my cow buff hunt last March in Limpopo, we came across a kudu that had gone blind and a couple days later a gemsbuck that was blind as well. Outfitter/PH had me shoot both and gave me the trophies, no charge. They both were in poor shape and I only took the horns. Looking back, I would have taken the skins as well. Would have looked good thrown over the couch. They didn't save the meat.
 

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It's been a great Safari here in Zambia with Mbizi Safaris so far!! Heading out to the Kafue Flats tomorrow for Lechwe
 
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