Who was at fault, me or the PH?

[PARA45]

Can't fault someone's lack of showing hysterical enthusiasm after killing an animal.

I don't show the BS high five, body trembling, back slapping, enthusiasm like the TV hunters on the TV outdoor hunting shows do.

Actually I don't show a whole lot of enthusiasm for killing any animal. I just give a round of handshakes congratulating those involved in the hunt for putting me on a good animal. Because that is the end result of a good hunt. My enthusiasm is all about the hunt for the animal, not how it ended for the animal.

My second trip to Africa impala garnered a lot of enthusiasm from PHs, trackers, and skinners that showed up to admire and help with the animal after Lloyd, my PH's tracker, got it down to the road by himself, no matter how much I insisted on wanting to help him, Lloyd was more insistent on doing the work by himself.

Finally, I asked, What was so special about the impala? Another PH showed me the details they look at to determine this was a very nice animal.

The next day I relented to have the impala measured. It measured over 25 inches. My response, eh OK.

Later that afternoon/early evening back at the lodge, word arrived a hunter at a different outfitter successfully shot a 26 inch impal

Again my 59 inch kudu on my first trip to Africa. I was more enthusiastic over the hunt and the effort it took by all others involved: PH, trackers, farm rep, and the 5 skinners that hauled the kudu up the mountain side, load it on the back pan of a tractor, in pitch black darkness, refusing to use the headlamp or pocket LED flashlight I offered them.

Two or three days later a 60 inch kudu was successfully hunted at another outfitter.

My 25" Impala.
View attachment 626475

Thanks RR. I guess I didn't quite articulate the message I was trying to convey.

The reason for my post was in regard to the 70" Kudu, and the lack of enthusiasm from the hunter. I guess, what I meant to say is that sometimes not knowing/inexperience can play with the emotions of a hunter. That is why I used as an example my reaction with the big Gemsbok. I get excited when I successfully complete a hunt, but that's about it. I did, however, get emotional when I shot my first animal in Africa and my wife came to congratulate me (the Gemsbok in the picture), my dream had become a reality, and when I shot the Lioness.

My apologies to the OP for derailing his post.

 

[npm352]

I like shooting free stuff, so I would have been stoked.

 

[swashington]

Making a bad shot is a lot different than a big fish breaking off. Difficult for client to not take full responsibility for a bad shot (as in no blame whatsoever on the PH). Breaking off ... easy to put the blame somewhere else: poor equipment, didn't chase the fish properly with boat, etc.) ... if throwing around blame makes the client feel better.

I missed a nice hartbeest bull. Easy shot off the sticks that Helen Keller could have made. What is wrong with me? I don't miss shots like that. PH: "Agree. I know you can shoot." Oh well. First animal of the trip. Maybe I was too excited. We find another herd and after a couple hours stalk we are finally close enough. This time I hit it but immediately knew it was hit poorly. As best I can recall that is the only animal in sixty years of hunting that I clipped a leg. Definitely not where that bullet should have went! We run him down and I try to finish the poor bugger. Again the shot goes badly wrong. What the hell? PH asked if he should finish it. "Something's wrong with your gun. Gotta be." Yes, finish it. So he killed it with his handgun. After lunch we went to the range and my Springfield was all over the paper at fifty yards. We had checked it before hunting and one shot in the bull at 100 yards so stopped. Late that night I couldn't sleep fretting about it. Took the rifle out of the closet and checked everything. Rings tight, bases tight, ammo looks okay. As I was putting it away I thought I felt some movement. Sure enough, action was loose in the bedding. I had just rebarreled it three days before leaving. Apparently the new bedding shrank during curing. If the farmer we were staying with could have found a decent slotted screwdriver, I could probably have put my gun in order. He said tools have a way of walking as fast as he replaced them. PH had brought a spare rifle and I used it till we could get back to the lodge. All my fault. Ashamed that my PH had to clean up my mess. I made some great shots that safari including my longest ever. But I also missed a gimme at a fine waterbuck looking at us 150 yards on the sticks. PH says, "Well ... what did we do wrong?" I laughed. "WE didn't do anything wrong. I f*#>d up." Sometimes it's too easy to take the easy shots for granted and lose concentration. Or just forget about it altogether.

I hear and respect what you are saying but here is my take on it. Whether hunting or fishing, our jobs as guides or PHs is to do our best and help the clients make memories. We are in the entertainment industry. Getting a trophy is wonderful but not the experience. I spent three years with a guide in Utah before I got my archery elk and I cherish every memory despite not getting one for a few years. That is part of hunting. I have an issue with guides that forget what their job really is especially when kids are involved.

 

[Speedster]

where was the hunt?

Philip:

It was in Limpopo, South Africa.

 

[One Day...]

I have not read eveything on this thread (yet), so I apologize if what I am going to write has already been said, but I will add a significant caveat to what I read so far...

Regarding the PH / outfitter reaction in this specific case
Mistake made (Welcome to real life! ); mistake corrected; move on and smile.
Do not beat yourself or the PH endlessly over it, Speedster, others will be all too happy to do it for you
Just learn from it (see rule #1 here under).
There is not much more to say.

Regarding trusting the PH
It all depends on who the PH is...
This is unlikely to happen in Zim for example, where PHs are very, very experienced, if only because of the comprehensive training/licensing process, but I have seen many PHs in South Africa considerably younger than my sons, and very, very green (it does not take much or long to become a PH in SA...) and I had significantly more hunting experience than they did, and infinitely more shooting experience than they did, and they made mistakes. Heck, this is how they too learn

And I will venture to speculate that the above resonates with many folks I esteem on this blog, with 4 or 5 decades of hunting and often a hundred or several hundred animals in the salt under their belt

There are also a couple of old timers who are just not good, never were, and never will be. Such is the Gaussian distribution curve, otherwise called 'bell curve'. PHs are no different from cops, doctors, teachers, etc. some just suck at their job... Outfitters generally weed out promptly such PHs, but owner-PH may avoid the selection process. Hence occasional bad reviews on AH

Additionally, keep in mind that the PH has a boss: the outfitter that employs him; that he is under pressure: put them in the salt; and young, inexperienced PHs may not have the maturity to discern what their true job is: customer satisfaction.

So........... unless a guy like Buzz Charlton or Myles McCallum or the like is PHing me, I retain my own judgment as to what / when I shoot. In the end, if someone ends up in the defendant box because an irresponsible shot was made, it is not the PH, it is me; or if a trophy fee has to be paid for an animal I do not like, it is not the PH who is paying it, it is me. This gives me not only the right, but the duty to exercise my own judgment. And I do.

If you think your PH is God, can read your soul, and can control fate, then I agree with Red Leg, because your PH is not God.

I would hate to be a PH.

RULE NUMBER 1: dialog constantly with your PH as to what you want and what you do not want. Even the most experienced PH may not have a doctorate in mind reading. And in 99.99% of the cases all your PH wants is to please you.

And then, Murphy invites himself to the stalk, and either the PH, or you, or both, make honest mistakes. Such is life! Remember neither he nor you are God. Good faith errors deserve not much more than correcting (if possible... hence beware what will stop your bullet after it goes over the ridge or through the bush) and moving on happily. Heck, you are on safari, just enjoy and roll with the punch. TIA !!!

 

[Sabre]

I think that the PH is the one who made the mistake and from what you described I think if there is blame, it is on the side of the PH.

I agree with some of the other members that said we put a lot of faith in the PH and their judgement and that's what we pay them for, their expertise.

But I also don't think you should be angry about it, especially this far out from the hunt. I get that it's easy to dwell on things like that. But they did the right thing and let you keep hunting and didn't try to make you take that animal as your trophy. It also seems like they came to that conclusion immediately without you having to argue for it, based on what you said. Seems like they did the right thing after an error.

 

[Philip Glass]

On my first trip to RSA in 2012, I was completely ripped off. One of four animals was a trophy and it was a blesbok that I saw before my female PH. It appeard from behind a bush and it was a quick shot at 30m. I also allowed myself to be tempted to shoot a Kudo that I only saw the horns of in the vegetation. "Shoot, shoot, shoot through the bush where you think the neck is" the PH whispered several times. There were a few drops of blood and we went after it for three days without getting at it. Of course, I had to pay for it, which was perfectly fine, but they didn't say anything at the farm, but I found out when I got home via my tour operator. When I had shot my Gemsbok I asked why it had no grooves on the horns and was told that ones with grooves were rare in the Northern Cape. They must have really enjoyed having me as a guest! When I was in Namibia in 2017, I showed pictures of my "trophy animals" to the owner of the farm. He got very upset and wanted the prankster's name and phone number, which I had to pretend I had forgotten. 2019 back in RSA I paid to shoot two good Kudos, a Greater and an Estern. If I remember correctly the Greater was 53 inches and the Estern 46 inches. I left both horns. I believe it is PHn's job to ensure that hunters who come as guests can shoot safe shots at the right animals and it is up to the hunter to explain his expectations before the hunt.
My trophy Gemsbok.
View attachment 626097

I am sorry that happened to you. I wish we got more hunt reports detailing these bad hunts. So many bad operators out there and it makes me mad.

 

[HookMeUpII]

First off, I don't feel you were at fault. Lets get that out of the way.

I think a lot of the groundwork convo goes into the blame game. For example, there are guys that go out and don't want to shoot anything less than a 50" kudu (which is real big). They say that outright. As such, when the time comes, there is some hunter responsibility to pull the trigger on the right animal. When I went, my PH asked me about size of the animals, and I said I was just looking for shooters. Didn't need monsters, didn't need safari golds, just a good time with animals I felt ethical about taking.

Now if you were looking for an absolute monster, then you could put the blame a little on you. That's really the only time I can see it being the case. You followed the PH's instructions, took the shot, on their call, and it didn't end up being what he thought. We're humans, they're humans, they make mistakes. How they handled it in your case speaks volumes. I think they did right.

What happened to you is a very common scenario. My impala was a similar situation. Stalked a bachelor group of about 4-5 males. We lost the one we were after. Then the same thing happened. They were filing out through a tiny lane/clearing. PH told me the next one "looked like a good shooter but didn't get a good look at him." I went on his call. It ended up being a likely safari gold impala pushing over 24-25".

Tough situation but it sounds like it worked out in the end. Did they give you the option to keep the backskin or do a euro?

 

[Kharn]

Can't help but wonder if "My first time here"...
Equates to some PHs as "Ahh easy target, knows no better, payday!"

 

[Neophyte]

I rely on the guide, or PH, to help find what I’m looking for.
They can only do this if there is good communication. Sometimes you can’t find what you want and it’s your choice to shoot or pass what is offered.