Who has hunted Dangerous Game with .600 nitro express..?

[Pondoro]

I am curious to what rifles used, what game and what ammo.. Very curious to hear about experience with elephant..

I admit to have a soft spot for the .600...not very rational perhaps..but still..

 

[Kopskoot]

I have. I use a Verney Carron , Imperial model. I use handloads. 900gr solids @ 2060f/s. Its pretty effective, but you still need to hit the vitals. Shot 2 elephants with it so far.

 

[Kopskoot]

If you search Verney Carron 600 here, you should see a video of one of these hunts

 

[Pondoro]

I saw it...impressive Nel..

 

[Ray B]

Just wondering if anything needs to be done to keep your balance during the rifle's recoil. I've been working my way up through the scale Over nearly 60 years: 308 - 30.06 - 300 Wby - 338 WM - 375 - 404J - 458WM - presently at 470NE. I don't know that I'll need to go any further, but just wondering, in the event that I do would the next step be to the 500-577 level or on up to 600?

 

[Pondoro]

From my very limited experience shooting a .600 double rifle weighing 13.2 lbs, rather light for calibre...I was not thrown off balance but the barrels pointed some 70 degrees upwards per shot..

I think the added recovery time between shots is the main challenge..

 

[IvW]

500 NE will out penetrate it. 500 NE is probably the biggest practical double cartridge to use.

600 too heavy recovery for the second shot takes too long, less penetration, the game of hunting elephant has to do with shot placement and straight line penetration, so that should be the decider.

By all means get one but first try one oit.

 

[flatwater bill]

The novelty of the caliber would add a bit to the hunt, I think. Congrats on your two elephant with the 20 bore. 900 grains at 2060 fps gives about 8500 ft lbs of muzzle energy. Or approx 11,500 Joules. Any trouble finding brass to reload?.......thanks for posting............FWB

 

[Foxi]

interesting to see that the first shot is not particularly impressive, despite the enormous 900 gr bulletweight.
You can tell you're a reloader, they always worry too much about their empty cases in the heat of battle .

Addendum-
a PH from Zimbabwe told me, he even had exits with his handloaded .458 Win and Sledgehammer bullets (on side head shots,logo) from time to time.

 

[Kopskoot]

IvW, I don’t necessarily agree with your statement about the second shot taking too long. I think it all depends on the design and balance of your rifle, as well as enough training with that particular rifle ..... with hunting loads.

In terms of penetration, I would once again be hesitant to say the 500 will out penetrate it, since that will have alot to do with bullet type and bullet design. On the other hand..... lets say it does..... how much penetration do you really need..... I think both will have enough.

Flatwater Bill. I was fortunate to get my hands on quite alot of Horneber brass.... which should last me a number of years. I also know that Bertrum makes them and are (relatively ) readily available.

 

[IvW]

Wonder why no PH's use it as a regular back up rifle(excluding the sponsored ones such as Sulivan).

Even old time Ivory hunters have on multiple accounts stated 577, 600, 700 are too heavy and lack penetration.

None ever complained about 500 NE, 500 Jeff or 505 Gibbs though.

I discovered the 500 Jeff and never looked back. If I could I would also use a 500 3 1/4 NE loaded to 3 inch pressure for a bit more speed(I know just adream).

Typical weight 12-16 pounds....thats why they used gun bearers long time ago. Not something one would want to carry everyday for a whole hunting season.

They lack some speed....

 

[Kopskoot]

I don’t know alot of ph’s..... but do know two who regularly carry their 600’s...... and a number of them who carry 577’s. , but I agree most don’t..... and I guess is because of the weight!

I own a 500 NE and 500 Jeff, love them.... but when I go elephant hunting I rather use my 577 or 600...... since I just feel more confident...... nothing wrong with the 500’s..... just prefer the bigger one’

 

[Jan Dumon]

Wonder why no PH's use it as a regular back up rifle(excluding the sponsored ones such as Sulivan).

Even old time Ivory hunters have on multiple accounts stated 577, 600, 700 are too heavy and lack penetration.

None ever complained about 500 NE, 500 Jeff or 505 Gibbs though.

I discovered the 500 Jeff and never looked back. If I could I would also use a 500 3 1/4 NE loaded to 3 inch pressure for a bit more speed(I know just adream).

Typical weight 12-16 pounds....thats why they used gun bearers long time ago. Not something one would want to carry everyday for a whole hunting season.

They lack some speed....

I'm not sure what the old ivory hunters were using for powder and bullets. I own a 600 NE and have used it extensively on Elephant , Buffalo and Rhino. Shooting 900 gr Dzombo bullets at a touch over 2 000 feet per second. It is devastating. It is in fact my back up rifle of choice. I have used my 500 NE extensively also on back up and its a wonderful caliber. It doesn't hold a candle to the 600 though. The weight is relative. When one goes from a bolt action rifle to a 500 double one feels the weight. Until you get use to it. Its the same with grading up to the 600.
a Well built and balanced 600 is very manageable. My son at 16 shot my 600 very accurately. still does.
I have shot through a 4 inch diameter hardwood branch , clean through the Elephants head , missing the brain , and he still stumbled and fell.

Wonder why no PH's use it as a regular back up rifle(excluding the sponsored ones such as Sulivan).

Even old time Ivory hunters have on multiple accounts stated 577, 600, 700 are too heavy and lack penetration.

None ever complained about 500 NE, 500 Jeff or 505 Gibbs though.

I discovered the 500 Jeff and never looked back. If I could I would also use a 500 3 1/4 NE loaded to 3 inch pressure for a bit more speed(I know just adream).

Typical weight 12-16 pounds....thats why they used gun bearers long time ago. Not something one would want to carry everyday for a whole hunting season.

They lack some speed....

Good evening. Interesting that you mention lack of speed. You dont think that a 900 gr bullet at 2000 odd feet per second is adequate?

 

[Thumper Mcgee]

does anyone here have experience with a 4 bore

 

[Jan Dumon]

My apologies . for some reason my complete post was not posted.
A Texan friend of mine shot his 600 loaded with 900gr Barnes solids clean through 7 trash bins full of water. Don't believe the stories out there about the 600 not penetrating enough. In 27 years of dangerous game guiding .I have had experience with most big calibers. This includes the 700 NE. Verney Carron did a Elephant and Rhino combination hunt with me with their 700. The 600 stands out.

 

[Jan Dumon]

My apologies . for some reason my complete post was not posted.
A Texan friend of mine shot his 600 loaded with 900gr Barnes solids clean through 7 trash bins full of water. Don't believe the stories out there about the 600 not penetrating enough. In 27 years of dangerous game guiding .I have had experience with most big calibers. This includes the 700 NE. Verney Carron did a Elephant and Rhino combination hunt with me with their 700. The 600 stands out.

I have had numerous of my clients hunt their Elephant, Rhino and Buffalo with my 600. They were all pleasantly surprised by the manageability of the rifle under recoil.
To each his own. In the end we all shoot what we shoot well. And so it should be.
I love my 600.

 

[Happy Myles]

The 600 sounds like a handful to me. I have taken savannah elephant with a 500 Jeffery, a 500 Nitro Express, a 450 Ackley, and a 470 Nitro Express. My favorite has been the 450 Ackley. I also used a 416 Rigby on two Forest elephant. I am sort of a gun nut. A few of my savannah elephant had AK 47 wounds by poachers. I had not planned on a second Forest elephant but it ambushed us in heavy cover while we were searching for forest sitatunga. The elephant also had a couple old wounds appeared to be caused by a 470. As you may know Forest elephant ivory may not be brought into the United States.

 

[Pondoro]

I suspect the insufficent penetration rumour may have been caused by the fact that Kynoch did not supply .600 solid bullets with steel jackets after WW2 (for some odd reason..) All other big bore ammo up to and including .577 NE had steel jackets..

There were some bad incidents due to solids flatten on ele..

 

[Kopskoot]

I suspect the insufficent penetration rumour may have been caused by the fact that Kynoch did not supply .600 solid bullets with steel jackets after WW2 (for some odd reason..) All other big bore ammo up to and including .577 NE had steel jackets..

There were some bad incidents due to solids flatten on ele..

Jip!

Also , the balistic data of earlier years suggest that the 600 NE was used at much lower velocities.... around 1750-1850f/s. Combined with the badly constructed bullets...... it would be a recipe for failure.

I suppose pretty much the same as the stigma around 458 Winmag’s . With today’s bullets and powders they perform perfectly well

 

[IvW]

Indeed they do historically speed was 1850 fps modern loads 1950 fps(some 2000 most not). Between 577, 600 and 700 NE the 600 NE is by far the better one a lot having to do with the SD of the 900 gr bullet. Of course using premium custom solid brass bullets such as the mentioned Dzombo goes a long way in delivering straight deep penetration, just a pitty very few have access to such premium grade bullets in these calibers.

Kynoch ammo here cost anything from R3300-R8500 for 5 if you can find it, reloading is the only option.

In practical terms the cost of a 600 NE the cost of keeping it fed and the weight of the rifle(typically 16 pounds) puts it out of reach of most people. It is also a rather specialized tool.

Some can handle it and afford it most cannot.

I had two shots with one many years ago in an English double of which I cannot remember the maker(Jeff or Rigby?), the recoil was just too much...having said that recoil paper stats indicate that both velocity and recoil velocity of the 500 Jeff firing a 570 gr bullet @2400 fps vs a 600 NE firing a 900gr @ 1950 fps is more than the 600....however I find the 500 Jeff quite manageable and devistating...

For those who can handle and afford the 600 NE I tip my hat....