Which BIG bore?

[matt85]

Matt in a earlier post you mentioned the 450NE pushes a 480gr bullet at 2050fps, 2150fps is the magic number that regulates most of the older rifles.

ive yet to see a rifle in 450 NE that regulated at 2150fps, most regulate best at around 2050-2100 fps depending on barrel length. also, you will not get 2150fps from a 24" or even a 26" barrel using standard loads. the 500/450 NE tends to operate at even slower velocities of around 2000-2050 fps.

this also goes for the 470 and 500 NE which average 2100 fps.

a heavy bullet of proper diameter at 2000+ fps will do the job just fine. these old cartridges relied on sectional density rather then velocity to kill and proved it works well by the fact that they have been in use for over 100 years.

-matt

 

[zephyr]

When it comes to Doubles lets agree that all Doubles are different.
For the sake of this discussion I can only compare two Doubles. I have a good friend with a VC 450NE with 25" barrels, my 450NE is a 1905 Gibbs with 28" barrels.
Hornady Factory loads 480gr DGS
VC ................. 2060-2080fps regulated for this load
Gibbs............. 1980-2030fps Hornady factory load shot a 4+" group tightened up at faster velocity.
Unless two completely different lots someone explain to me why my 28" barrels will shoot slower than the VC with 25" barrels

480gr Woodleighs H4831
VC .................. 2100fps
Gibbs ............. 2150fps

480 CEB H4831 and H4350
Gibbs ................2180-2200fps

450 NFs, CEBs H4831 and H4350
VC ....................2150-2180fps
Gibbs ...............2180-2200fps
To throw a wrench into the works I have a Woodleigh 480gr load with 3031 at 1900fps the shoots quite nicely.

As you know when dealing with DRs and especially older DRs, you adjust your load until you get the results that you want at the distance you want. I will agree whole heartily that a 480gr bullet at 2000fps is all one needs. But it has been my impression that with "my" 450NE and what few 450NE shooters that I have compared notes with, the closer one gets to 2150fps with powders like H4350 and H4831 and RL15 the better the gun shoots.

 

[matt85]

Unless two completely different lots someone explain to me why my 28" barrels will shoot slower than the VC with 25" barrels

check the bore diameters, if one barrel is slight smaller then the other it can change the pressure levels.

-matt

 

[zephyr]

Have never took the time to measure the bore dia of my Gibbs but I can tell you that the left barrel is a bit more accurate and 10-20fps faster. Perhaps a rifle that is 110 years old the right barrel has been shot a few more times than the left.

 

[Pondoro]

My 100 year old DR (+/- a few years..) in .475 3 1/4 NE Straight shoots Kynoch factory (.483/480 grain Woodleighs) at an average of 2158 fps from 23" barrels and regulates splendidly at 40 meters with this load..

This cartridge is a .450 NE necked up to .483..

 

[Jimbob]

Well I am currently away from all my tools but it's looking like it'll be less than 4-bore, maybe a 6, so recoil should be less.

What I would give for a good vernier calliper

 

[Pondoro]

Say...what about a 10 bore rifle..?

 

[matt85]

What I would give for a good vernier calliper

funny you say that, i was just thinking the same thing. my calipers are cheap and poor quality and im very tired of them glitching on me or simply losing zero all the time. so i just ordered one of these last night http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-798A...&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

they are pretty expensive but its hard to make it threw life as a hand loader without a reliable set of calipers!

-matt

 

[norfolk shooter]

So I have a dilemma, I'm going to build a big rifle which will be used on the range here in the UK and on game abroad.
Although I may hunt elephant in the future it's a relatively small chance, thus the likelihood of having to stop a charge is practically zero.

Here are the options and some points on them:
600 Nitro- barrel available off the shelf in the UK, easy availability of components, can be built lighter, best of the three for penetration.
700 Nitro- custom barrel needed, good availability of components but expensive and brass can be tricky at times, largest of the Nitro Express line, heavier rifle than 600, less penetration than 600 but more than 4-bore.
4 bore- custom barrel needed, would use modified 20mm Vulcan brass so cheap but lots of work, cast or custom turned bullets, heaviest rifle of the 3, would use smokeless but at normal 4-bore velocity, biggest of the 3.

Head says 600,700,4-bore in order of appeal.
Heart says 4-bore,700,600 in order of appeal.
Wife says 700 as it's the best compromise.

What's the consensus on here?

Jim what range in the UK are you going to use it at?? Holts have a nice 8 bore double for sale job done

 

[Jimbob]

There is one near me ok'd up to 10,000 ft-lbs. I'm just awaiting confirmation on what calibre they're authorised up to.
I have a list somewhere but not to hand. I think the Kynoch and Tunnel range are on it.
Either way, if the local range doesn't work out then I'll be going for the max I can legally shoot there.

 

[Eddie P]

Jim what range in the UK are you going to use it at?? Holts have a nice 8 bore double for sale job done

There is one near me ok'd up to 10,000 ft-lbs. I'm just awaiting confirmation on what calibre they're authorised up to.
I have a list somewhere but not to hand. I think the Kynoch and Tunnel range are on it.
Either way, if the local range doesn't work out then I'll be going for the max I can legally shoot there.

That's precisely the question I was going to ask.

Where are you in the UK?

 

[Jimbob]

Cornwall. There are more ranges than you think which are certified for high energy. Some are limited to .510" but others, like Kynoch, can go up to .700" (maybe higher, as i said i'm away from my list of big bore ranges)

 

[Eddie P]

I knew that there were military ranges upto those limits. I didn't know that there were many civilian ones.

 

[Jimbob]

There isn't many but they are out there. Corinium is just north of 5000 ft-lbs. Target Sports Centre tunnel is quite high but cant remember what exactly. Carlton Moor Range is over 7000 ft-lbs. Minsterly ranges is over 5000 ft-lbs i'm sure. As said, Kynoch maxes out at 700 Nitro so must be 9000 ft-lbs or higher.
So maybe not as high as i would need for the calibres listed here but with handloads i can easily tailor range loads to keep within energy limits so long as the calibre is allowed.

Its one of those things i would really like to do and i will try my best to make it as reality but if i cant do it due to lack of a suitable range then i'm sure 5000 ft-lbs will do

 

[Eddie P]

I shoot at Severn side in south wales. It's cleared to 7000j which is 5160 ft/lb I think. I'm not sure of max velocity or bore.

That is fairly standard. It was the 10k ft/lb that supprised me.

 

[boldo 42]

So I have a dilemma, I'm going to build a big rifle which will be used on the range here in the UK and on game abroad.
Although I may hunt elephant in the future it's a relatively small chance, thus the likelihood of having to stop a charge is practically zero.

Here are the options and some points on them:
600 Nitro- barrel available off the shelf in the UK, easy availability of components, can be built lighter, best of the three for penetration.
700 Nitro- custom barrel needed, good availability of components but expensive and brass can be tricky at times, largest of the Nitro Express line, heavier rifle than 600, less penetration than 600 but more than 4-bore.
4 bore- custom barrel needed, would use modified 20mm Vulcan brass so cheap but lots of work, cast or custom turned bullets, heaviest rifle of the 3, would use smokeless but at normal 4-bore velocity, biggest of the 3.

Head says 600,700,4-bore in order of appeal.
Heart says 4-bore,700,600 in order of appeal.
Wife says 700 as it's the best compromise.

What's the consensus on here?

Depending on what you have shot before , a 500 nitro is pretty managable.

 

[Jimbob]

I shoot at Severn side in south wales. It's cleared to 7000j which is 5160 ft/lb I think. I'm not sure of max velocity or bore.

That is fairly standard. It was the 10k ft/lb that supprised me.

It surprised me to hence my wanting to make sure of it and what calibre is allowed.
If I can't shoot a 600/700/bigger there then I'll fall back on the 475 plan

 

[norfolk shooter]

Jim you do know that to build a rifle you need to be an RFD as your producing working parts to a sec1 firearm

 

[Eddie P]

When I made a gun I was just told by my local constabulary to sign it on myself.

 

[norfolk shooter]

I need to look into that one I was always told I couldn't do that. All I wanted to do was make a moderator