What tricks to put on light weight 416 rem mag to help reduce recoil

[rookhawk]

a cursory look of Load data on one of the sources showed that AA2015 powder did the same work with quite a bit fewer grains of powder than the other choices.

400gr bullet, 10lb gun. The differences in starting loads:

With aa2015, 67gr, 2258fps = 48.6 pounds of recoil
With Varget at 75gr, 2365fps = 55.3 pounds of recoil

This is a measurable difference, however, if I was to spend an hour looking at all data sources I'm certain I could find an even lighter recoiling option at appropriate velocity. 4064, IMR3031, and RL15 are typically mild-recoiling powders if appropriate for the caliber that I always investigate. H4895 I almost never use, even though it allows you to use reduced recoil loads, at any given "normal" grain weight it produces more recoil than many alternatives.

 

[mdwest]

This is a measurable difference, however, if I was to spend an hour looking at all data sources I'm certain I could find an even lighter recoiling option at appropriate velocity. 4064, IMR3031, and RL15 are typically mild-recoiling powders if appropriate for the caliber that I always investigate

^^^ This ^^^

I keep a substantial supply of 4064 on hand for exactly this reason.. and it becomes my go-to for every cartridge I can accurately and safely load with it..

My 308 (caliber I shoot the most by a huge margin) powder is 4064... my 375 H&H powder is 4064.. and you guessed it... my 416 powder is 4064... (I also use it in 270, 30-06, and a host of others)..

I know a lot of people transitioned from 4064 to Varget once Varget hit the market (similar velocities, similar charges, supposedly more temp and moisture stable, etc..).. but I never did.. 4064 has served me extremely well for the better part of 30 years.. Its been doing its job extremely well since its initial release in the 1930's.. I figure if it aint broke, theres no reason to "fix" it...

 

[Hogpatrol]

Another option: R.A.D. recoil absorption device.

Standard R.A.D.

Hart Systems, L.L.C. manufacturer of Recoil absorbtion Devices for shooters around the world.

www.hartshooting.com

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Completely agree with you on shotguns. My DGR rifles weigh between seven+ and fourteen pounds. I am in relatively good shape, but until last year have subscribed to the no-sling carry on safari. You know, you will get tangled on the sticks at the moment of truth. . . . Well, never again. 12 pounds without a sling for something like 17 miles is a beat down. I would have given my left (.404 Jeffery) for my seven pound rifle (or a sling). I will bring a sling from now on--no matter rifle weight--and remove for final approach.

Back to the OP, I think the McMillan stocks are fine. You can add recoil reducers to most quality synthetic stocks. And as Rookhawk stated, load appropriately. Many guys in excellent shape prefer light-weight rifles. They are not just for sheep hunting at elevation. In fact, I don't know many heavy guys that are worried about the weight of their rifles. Completely get the RTC problems. I dislocated my left shoulder last safari as everything is shot (labrum, infraspinatus, supraspinatus etc). Thankfully I am right handed.

Last year I only brought the one sling for both 30-06 and 404. We alternated days hunting buff and plains game so the herd didn't get pushed around too much (I was culling a designated cow). Two of four days I had to carry the 404 without the sling that I forgot to swap. No problem carrying my 404 that weighs ten pounds with the scope but empty magazine. On the other hand, I have borrowed my brother's 300 Win Browning BAR a couple of times to hunt mule deer. Weight with bipod attached must be about comparable to my 404 98 Mauser. But gawd is that an awful gun to carry because the weight balance is so screwed up. That front heavy monster pulls on my forearm, shoulder, back, and neck when carried in the ready position, even for just an hour. My 404 is balanced right at the front of the magazine floorplate. Perfect for carrying in one hand when needed (e.g. slipping through heavy brush). I credit this to a slightly heavy #5 barrel profile. Thanks to Dan at Lidja for his advice. I knew nothing about barrel profiles when I ordered this one.

I am not a fan of barrel ring sling swivel mounts. Like my backpack, I prefer the weight of the rifle I'm carrying to be high on my body, not low banging me in the butt or thigh. If I'm going through heavy cover, the gun is off my shoulder and in my hand. In very rugged steep country, it is often cross-slung across my back. I cannot see how that would work very well with barrel ring swivel. I am thinking of switching to flush mount push-button detachable sling swivel for my Browning A5 shotgun. The standard swivel stud kept getting caught in my upland vest during mounting so I finally removed it. Sure miss not having that sling in the bag for long walks back to the vehicle on frosty evenings when my hands would be warmer stuffed in pants pockets. I figure I'll use the other flush mount on the front of my 30-06 or 404 so the gun is not getting hung up on sticks or bench rest when sling is removed (A5 has forward sling swivel mounted on magazine tube cap).

 

[gbflyer]

Anyone who recommends replacing a well fit McMillan fiberglass stock on a heavy recoiling rifle for a Boyd’s laminate (it will split) or a Bell and Carlson (mostly rigid foam) is sniffing glue.

If you want to add weight, have a stock fitter add weight. You have the perfect place to start. McMillan has been the gold standard for synthetic stocks for decades. Unless it has Edge fill, it’s as heavy or heavier than wood already. Their fiberglass fill is the most rigid, stable, durable product on the market.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Anyone who recommends replacing a well fit McMillan fiberglass stock on a heavy recoiling rifle for a Boyd’s laminate (it will split) or a Bell and Carlson (mostly rigid foam) is sniffing glue.

If you want to add weight, have a stock fitter add weight. You have the perfect place to start. McMillan has been the gold standard for synthetic stocks for decades. Unless it has Edge fill, it’s as heavy or heavier than wood already. Their fiberglass fill is the most rigid, stable, durable product on the market.

Boyds puts crossbolts in their laminate stocks, or they do in the standard action Mauser 98 laminates they're peddling on eBay. I have never heard of a laminate stock splitting but my exposure is rather limited to the guys at the club. If the OP's Weatherby rifle is described as "lightweight" and it wears a "heavy" McMillan stock, where is the weight lost? Maybe it's already a heavy rifle? In that case, I'd say he should be looking at base/ring height and adjusting his reloads (IF he reloads). But it seems from another thread he's at least trying to reload (i.e. resizing 375 Weatherby brass to 416 Rem).

 

[rookhawk]

Anyone who recommends replacing a well fit McMillan fiberglass stock on a heavy recoiling rifle for a Boyd’s laminate (it will split) or a Bell and Carlson (mostly rigid foam) is sniffing glue.

If you want to add weight, have a stock fitter add weight. You have the perfect place to start. McMillan has been the gold standard for synthetic stocks for decades. Unless it has Edge fill, it’s as heavy or heavier than wood already. Their fiberglass fill is the most rigid, stable, durable product on the market.

While I would never be one to praise synthetic stocks, you're correct. Boyd's stocks are very weak/fragile. I would never replace a McMillan worth $400-$800 with a $119 piece of Boyd's finest plywood.

 

[TOBY458]

I second or third the advice of keeping the McMillan stock. They are plenty heavy enough as is. If you hand load your ammo, just step down to starting loads in the 2200 fps range or move down to 350gr bullets at 2300fps for practice.

 

[gbflyer]

Boyds puts crossbolts in their laminate stocks, or they do in the standard action Mauser 98 laminates they're peddling on eBay. I have never heard of a laminate stock splitting but my exposure is rather limited to the guys at the club. If the OP's Weatherby rifle is described as "lightweight" and it wears a "heavy" McMillan stock, where is the weight lost? Maybe it's already a heavy rifle? In that case, I'd say he should be looking at base/ring height and adjusting his reloads (IF he reloads). But it seems from another thread he's at least trying to reload (i.e. resizing 375 Weatherby brass to 416 Rem).

I installed a Boyd’s on a lefty Zastava Mauser 3-4 years ago. I don’t recall a crossbolt but I could be wrong. The inlet took a lot of work to get it to sit level in the stock. No long term report on its durability as I let the rifle get away. There are plenty of Boyd’s reports about delaminating. You are correct about the weight of them.

The weight issue the OP is experiencing could be from a light contour barrel. .416 is a big hole out of it. Generally a manufacturer jumps up to a “magnum” contour which would be a Douglas #5 or similar at .375, but some people have a smith use something as light as they can get for a custom job. I believe Weatherby receivers are fairly light, when the paint wears off you can see the “Coors” label. LOL. Just kidding.

 

[Berettaco]

Some good advice above - second comments from @rookhawk

load development, Weight of the rifle, good recoil pad, low rings/bases and for me a proper fit (I’m 6’1) and find most heavier recoiling rifles fit better and have less felt recoil with a 1” spacer adding a bit more length and allowing a better fit. Just something to consider - not sure of your current fit

 

[86thecat]

DGR,
I understand your points about a supressor.
Maybe try a Past strap on recoil pad, makes a huge difference if installed recoil pad is bottoming out.
Also a linear compensator (instead of a brake) tames recoil a bit but still sends muzzle blast away from you.

 

[AimSmall]

With an injured shoulder, when sighting/shooting a rifle that recoils like a 416, seems a PAST pad, or similar would be a must.

Many good points already made. But, what game? Can you reduce bullet weight?

Sighting the scope from the bench? Have a friend shoot it.

When shooting freehand or off sticks, with shortened LOP,, using a shoulder pad, the 416 is not too bad.

Put a red dot on it to avoid scope dings.

Heavier is better, but it is heavier...

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I installed a Boyd’s on a lefty Zastava Mauser 3-4 years ago. I don’t recall a crossbolt but I could be wrong. The inlet took a lot of work to get it to sit level in the stock. No long term report on its durability as I let the rifle get away. There are plenty of Boyd’s reports about delaminating. You are correct about the weight of them.

The weight issue the OP is experiencing could be from a light contour barrel. .416 is a big hole out of it. Generally a manufacturer jumps up to a “magnum” contour which would be a Douglas #5 or similar at .375, but some people have a smith use something as light as they can get for a custom job. I believe Weatherby receivers are fairly light, when the paint wears off you can see the “Coors” label. LOL. Just kidding.

I might be wrong too. The ebay vendor of these laminates does not identify them as Boyds but they are exactly the same price as Boyds laminates on their site. The same ads peddling laminate stocks are always up. This one for 98 Mauser has two crossbolts

The vendor's 93 Mauser stock in tan laminate now up for sale also has two crossbolts.

 

[Inline6]

I bought a Weatherby mark v that was a 257 weatherby in a McMillian fiberglass stock that was converted to 416 rem mag .The person that had ot made asked Weatherby about changing it to 416 rem mag .I do wish it was stainless widh though to make it even better .I have had a bunch of 416 rem mags model 70 win rem 700 and sako .My shoulder is not what it use to be .I think the recoil pad is just a decelorator and glued or screwed on I want the best recoil pad and best muzzlebrake but not the tank kind I hate them.I don't think you can put a mercury recoil reducer in this stock .I have a torn rotator on my right shoulder so it ain't what it use to be .I want to see what's the best to put on this rifle .I also want glow open sites just in case .This is my last 416 I have had 7 still have 4 of them awesome guns .I tried to get a ec tuner made into. 416 but they want make one .unless they make 1000 of them.

The most effective brake that I know of is an APA fat bastard. They make them up to 50 cal. The diameter of the barrel may hold you back. You can call and talk to them. They would probably could probably bore it out to accommodate your 416. They also have a tuner option.

 

[rookhawk]

I might be wrong too. The ebay vendor of these laminates does not identify them as Boyds but they are exactly the same price as Boyds laminates on their site. The same ads peddling laminate stocks are always up. This one for 98 Mauser has two crossbolts
View attachment 593275
The vendor's 93 Mauser stock in tan laminate now up for sale also has two crossbolts.

My experience says that the laminate stocks have no structural integrity out of the box. A day of chiseling and gouging, then you can glass in the recoil lug. More messing around, you can put in some glassed up aluminum pillars so the bottom metal doesn’t crush the wood, nor provide wild variances in tension. Then it comes to the back of the action for more whittling nonsense, because the rear tang area and trigger are too thin without more glass.

So about 1/2 the effort of inletting a best-grade $5000 rifle stock, only the results were on a $100 POS.

Not a fan. Not very durable. Lots of acriglass and other nonsense trying to create something that holds together under moderate recoil.

 

[Tam Dl]

Virtually every implementation of fiberglass or carbon, has initially been sold as cushioning the blow, from bicycles to golf clubs. It almost always turns out to be backed by zero data, and over time, is no longer part of the sales pitch. If a stock feels better it is probably design. materials like composites generally provide greater column retention at lower weight. They certainly aren't going to shorten in length like a shock absorber. If that is the claim, then where is the data.

One has to look at acceleration. Say there was some magic stock that did loose 1/4" in length to act as a shock absorber. It only works successfully if it is in time with the rate of rearward acceleration. It could actually make the recoil effect worse. Say the whole cycle takes X seconds. It retracts 1/4" when softening the blow, but the retraction is reversed, we never actually see it. So after it retracted, it resets. It probably has to reset faster than it absorbed the push, if you think about it. So that would actually be a worse kick. A soft push might be X x .6. Longer to absorb than half the total cycle. So then the reset is the shorter pieces. It is faster. You get hit harder, but later.

It is more complicated than just some sales mumbo jumbo, making a claim.

However, what would be quite effective would be good design. So a company with a lot of experience might excel there, however, mold costs are going to limit a lot of work that could be done in composite stocks.

Cheapest? Wider recoil pad. Best alternative, 9.3x62. Recoils like the 300 win mag.

 

[375er]

Sell it and buy something else that is easier to shoot??

 

[86thecat]

Interesting data, sure there are other tests online. Maybe use a brake on the bench but install and sight in a linear comp for hunting, especially if guide and trackers are involved.

Muzzle Brakes: Recoil Reduction Results Summary

This post provides a comprehensive view of the muzzle brake recoil reduction data gathered on all 4 ...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[86thecat]

Linear comps-

Best Linear Compensators: Blast It Forward [2023]

Tame those short barrels and make new friends at the range! Linear compensators can help handle even the biggest fireball.

www.recoilweb.com

 

[dgr416]

My hs stock on my rem 700 kicks less than any of my other 416s even my model 70 that's 9.5 pounds .I think the recoil goes on waves rather than. A solid jolt as on wooden stocks .I hope this Weatherby shoots as good as my other 416s .It has a Douglas barrel 24 inches .I hope to fix it up right to kick less have not even shot it yet but will do so soon .I use Burris signature zee rings on weaver bases that and Japan made 3x9 shot 2500 times no problems on my other 416 .I just want to make this 416 way smoother to shoot i am 61 now and I want to shoot them till I am 70 at least .The 416s are my limit on recoil and i still shoot them very well .