What is wrong with you people?

[WARTY09]

Your right!!!!

For me ....................hunting is all consuming. I think about it all the time. I am thinking about my next hunt as I type this thinking about a negative I see in the great scheme of hunting things.

I see a 4 day sable special.......no offense but it prompted this. FOUR Days......OH MOTHER OF GOD.........yes and killing a 400+ bull elk with a tag in it's ear and same day in and out service is in the same ballpark.

Yes I am a 'booking agent', 'hunting consultant', know it all SOB, but boys and girls I do not like this trend to head collecting .....................gold medal, right now..........want my head delivered in 6 months Mr. Taxidermist.

I am probably making Jerome pull his hair out with this post............but I don't like it!!!!!

I can feel it.......go ahead and fire away.

Sir
After reading your post I really wanted to drop my two cents worth on this subject.Your 100% correct on this subject. Hunting has become a business and profit just like everything else. I can go into Wal Mart for a sale on white tee shirts and walk out with two hundred dollars of crap! If they can get you there they got you! My scream being if your killing your paying! And the more killing that you are doing the more money a person is going to spend and time. Its not the outfitters/PH's fault.They have families, bills, ect just like everyone else. Its the "hunters" fault if we can call them that?Most of their clients would pay extra for just what you are talking about. You talked about shooting a 400" bull elk in a pen. For some people that is the only way they will ever kill a elk. Between impossible draw odds and fat bastards that cant walk 100 yards from the truck. Hunting has really lost the Eastmens way of hunting if you ask me. But if you don't like it now, just wait this is the future of hunting as we know it! Maybe the clients being us, you and me should take the extra time and hunt the way our grandfathers did? I feel that would solve this REAL problem. Thanks for bringing this topic up its something that needs to be talked about and fixed. Keep fighting the good fight.:worship: WARTY09

 

[DLS]

When I went on my first African hunt in Zimbabwe back in 1983, Rosslyn Safaris (and most all of ther other Matetsi operators) offered 5 day Sable hunts. They were a common, though special, game animal then (I don't know about current populations in Matetsi) and it was a nice thing to be able to tack on a sable hunt to a longer safari. On that particular hunt, I took my fiance, and while I did a 24 day safari, I didn't know if she'd like to hunt herself, or not. So, I bought her a 5 day hunt to try it out. She shot a big sable, a very nice kudu and an impala.

I never saw anything wrong with that hunt. However, I do agree that too many people are only looking for a 'quickie.' Whether it's African hunting or women, taking one's time is always a better way to go!

 

[robert tolliver]

for what its worth;-------------read one wall street journal. and your a stock brocker.----read one field and stream. and your a fisherman or hunter.----read a western horseman. and your a horse trainer. hunting is what you put into it, time out hunting some time you have success, and some times just a good time out giveing your gun a walk. eather way it's all good. it's like the little boys the devil caught. he put in a room full of road apples up to their noses, one boy was crying, the other was laughing and digging all around. the devil was confused, and ask the happy one why he was so happy, he said with this much horse poop, there has to be a pony some where in here. get out and hunt, and also to vote.:stirring:

 

[PaulT]

From my personal perspective, as a wilderness hunt operator, it is very reassuring to read the responses to this thread, supporting the old school way of hunting, but I feel compelled to add my experience in dealing with the hunting market. I knock back a lot of inquirers each year over two main issues. The first is that although we operate at close to 100% success on bulls, where our annual average hovers around the 100" mark, I will not provide guarantees to inquirers that they will get a bull of this size, even though many of our clients do. Secondly, I refuse to accept booking requests for 2 or 3 day hunts where our minimum hunt duration is 6 days, knowing that in such a short time frame both the client and myslef will be under undue pressure to take the first reasonable animal on offer.Therefore a lot of my inquirers are lost to hunts that can be booked on private cattle stations closer to town and can be had in a shorter duration, "guarranteeing" a record book bull. It may come as a shock to a lot of you posting here to acknowledge that a large percentage of the market is focused on the "destination" ( what the trophy scores ) rather than the "journey" ( the hunt experience itself ). You only have to look at the N.Z hunt market for a clearer picture where the vast majority of hunts are conducted on game ranches which can produce record book size, multiple species hunts in limited time frames, as oposed to respectable wild Trophies in free range circumstances over an extended period.In relative terms, it usually takes more time and effort, and costs more money to aquire Trophies and hunting experience in true free range wilderness scenarios and not everyone can afford the time and the cost and not everyone is as devoted to the experience as the previous posters on here.I only hope that this trend doesn't continue to grow at the alarming rate that it has been, at the expense of the wilderness operators. It is far more expensive for wilderness operators to provide logistics and services in remote areas and therefore we cannot compete with the convenience and pricing that is attracting such a large portion of the market. I am glad to read that a lot of you hunt for the sake of the hunting, the memories it generates and the experience it provides you with, you restore my faith in our sport. You are all welcome to share my wilderness campfire with me.

 

[ctulpa]

There are different hunts available to different hunters. What is wrong with that?

You may like to do something different than me. It's Ok. Enjoy your own hunt. I will be happy for you because you are doing what you love to do with your life.

Some hunters book a five day sable hunt and are happy with it. Others book a five day sable hunt and end up staying longer, adding days and other trophies.

It is all hunting, and there are all types of hunters out there. That is good. Something for everyone.

I see some of the posts condemning other hunters because they don't have exactly the same goal or idea of a "good" hunt as themselves.

Remember all hunts are special. It is just good that we have those opportunities. And remember a 10 day hunt becomes a 4 day hunt if you didn't shoot your animal if the first 6 days.

It is true that we remember the "tougher" ones more. It took more effort. So if that is what you personally want, just book the "tough" hunts and you should get your wish. But don't put down others that want something a little easier.

Outfitters advertising will be for the whole spectrum of the industry. If you don't like what they have to offer, just don't buy it.

It is nice to see different options. If you can only get away from the office or work for 5 days and decide to spend that time in the outdoors pursuing your passion, that is great!

Ryan was correct when he said that if you try to get expectations of success in a short time, you need to put in the extra effort. And I know a lot of hunters willing to put in the effort to get it done quickly. I also know a lot of hunters that want a 30 day safari because they want the time to relax and not have pressure when they hunt. Who is right? In my opinion they both are, as it is their choice to enjoy it they way they want. But if Ryan had a hunter that wants to get up late, stay in camp, and not put out the extra effort necessary to make it happen, what is wrong with that as long as he understands that is his choice and the way he wants to enjoy his safari. He may come out of that safari without his bull or without the bull he had envisioned, but that is his choice to make. Even if it was a short 5 day safari, maybe he just wanted to enjoy the safari on his own pace and let the hunt results go as they may.

And if some hunters go afield to kill themselves with effort, or hunt for world record animal, or for the meat, or hunt for a medal, or inches, or a grand slam, or whatever drives them to get into the sport, what is wrong with that? Everyone has their own agenda, dreams, goals, motivations and expectations. Let it happen. We need all this diversity and we are fortunate to be in a sport that allows for all these things.

Good luck hunting whatever hunt you decide to do!

 

[tygersman1]

Cliff - Nice post. I couldn't agree more.

We need more acceptance in our sport in order to make sure it and the animals pursued don't become relics of the past.

 

[philip in china]

I agree 100% with your sentiments. For that matter why go to Africa at all? Have it delivered to a stockyard near you and use a humane killer on it.

 

[Airedale Marine]

Just to put my two cents worth in, if you have made the money, then make the time. Canned hunts should be outlawed everywhere. I've seen films of wealthy clients who fly in, go to the game ranch and shoot their "trophy" animal in an enclosure, and then they can't leave fast enough. Some people just have their priorities mixed up. If T.R. could take two years off, then I think today's self important executives can take two weeks off.

 

[tygersman1]

Just to put my two cents worth in, if you have made the money, then make the time. Canned hunts should be outlawed everywhere. I've seen films of wealthy clients who fly in, go to the game ranch and shoot their "trophy" animal in an enclosure, and then they can't leave fast enough. Some people just have their priorities mixed up. If T.R. could take two years off, then I think today's self important executives can take two weeks off.

I don't disagree with you in principle but I also think they're are alot of variables involved in each individual hunt and with each individual hunter. I think most of us will agree that a 21 day wide open big game safari with a reputable outfitter is great. I think most of us will agree that shooting a lion on a 5 acre pen is bad. There is much room in between.

I suspect that the age, phyiscal condition, and experience of hunters also often plays a role. I'm not a old guy yet ... but I know my Dad (who never got to go on a safari but hunted other NA game his whole life) had tremendous difficulties late in his life that impacted his ability to rough it like he used to.

Also, the "self important executive" comment is off base. Many executives keep the reputable outfitters on this site and throughout Africa busy and in business when the rest of us are saving our nickels for our next adventure. Once again, I think we should avoid bashing fellow hunters and just work to educate and advise so we can build a better sport that'll be around for our kids to enjoy.

 

[Big5]

I suspect that the age, phyiscal condition, and experience of hunters also often plays a role. I'm not a old guy yet ... but I know my Dad (who never got to go on a safari but hunted other NA game his whole life) had tremendous difficulties late in his life that impacted his ability to rough it like he used to.

Being in my 60’s I suppose by some standards I am already an old guy. Certainly I realize that I am not presently capable of hunting in the same manner that I did in the past. But, hey, that’s just a plain and simple fact of life which applies to many endeavors, not just hunting. But that fact should not be used an excuse to justify undertaking canned hunts.

As we age it is also easy to look back and wish that we had undertaken or accomplished many things. It’s easy for all of us to look back and reminisce about many missed opportunities that for one reason or another we did not partake in that we now wish we had. There is no going back in time. But again, that also should not be used as a justification to now do something, such as canned hunting, that we would not have found acceptable back then.

There are plenty of hunting opportunities out there for all of us at nearly any age. I think a major problem is we’ve evolved into a ‘drive-thru’ society where we want any and all things right now. It seems that we no longer want to wait for anything. Many of us no longer want to wait and learn how to shoot properly by way of practice and experience. It’s quicker to simply purchase a rifle of a caliber beyond our experience level and tame the recoil by way of stuffing the stock full of mercury tubes and throwing a brake on the muzzle. There are those who no longer seem satisfied with spending several days of actual hunting and pursuing game animals in a fair chase situation. Instead, they are not satisfied unless they are placed on a small fenced parcel to whack-n-stack a handful of species each day. Sorry if I am offending anyone, but I consider them to be ‘barnyard hunters’.

I believe ‘Airedale Marine’ correctly nailed it when he said; “Some people just have their priorities mixed up”.

 

[Skyline]

Well said Big 5. I couldn't agree more.

 

[Cossack]

I guess this thread is a little old, but I'm pretty new here, so I'll throw in my thoughts. I have serious issues with instant gratification hunts and have no desire to ever participate in one. I see animals in an enclosed area as livestock, and like most of you, I suspect, I have no desire to hunt livestock. I know that some very large properties exist, and so even fully fenced animals can exist in fair chase conditions. That's great.

On the other hand, I keep goats, and if I found out that somebody wanted to pay me a few thousand dollars to come and shoot one of my goats, I suppose that would be pretty tempting - especially since a lot of livestock ends up being slaughtered by less interesting methods anyway. Heck, he can even call it hunting if he wants to . . .

It does seem that fenced and managed game populations, both in large and small properties, could have a valuable place in the management and preservation of game around the world, especially in generations to come.

Ultimately the demand creates supply. I don't see he demand for instant gratification and stroked egos going anywhere, unfortunately. So I think it's up to the rest of us to make sure that the demand for wild places with free-roaming animals stays strong and that there is always an incentive to protect, preserve, and create wild areas, both private and public.

 

[theov]

I have read and read this Thread many a times and I have seen a whole host of BS in some cases and in others good honest stuff. My 2 cents worth, one of the comments were it is the "hunters'" fault, load of hogwash the outfitter putting packages out like 8 days 9 species (antelope)... where do you get off trying to sell this as a hunt. We also sometimes fall into that trap of trying to sell more animals in a limited time period however we now have made a decision that we will nut put out packages that the hunter might perceive as easy hunting.

The most species we put out on a 7 Day (full hunting days) is 4 and then we would also state that this is not guaranteed, no animal is guaranteed. The properties we hunt on you could be lucky to see a Kudu in 2 days. We sold a Buffalo (Bull) 7 day package in November 2009 and ended up taking 6 animals (3 buffaloes), we were very fortunate. But the point remains the hunter did not expect us to do it he expected one buffalo in 7 days.

Our motto is we hunt, not spot get of the vehicle and stalk, we start hunting walking out of camp and then get onto tracks (spoor) and track the animal down.

I am totally against hunting from a vehicle, it is a different situation in Zimbabwe as you need to use a vehicle to get to an area where there is a lot of animal activity and spot tracks, due to the size of area we hunt in (439 sq miles). The only time we accommodate using a vehicle is for the handicaped or if you have any medical condition that does not allow you to walk huge distances.

The true hunter enjoys a hard hunt and if he gets one animal in 7 days and hunted hard on 5 animals then as the saying goes it is what it is.

Well that is my 2 cents worth, the other guys can do what they want we are doing what we feel is right.

 

[enysse]

I think people have to think about the memories of the hunt, years down the road. There are many ways the hunt can be carried out! Sometimes the cheapest hunts aren't the best, killing 15 animals in 7 days can be a bad thing, and hunting hard for just one animal can be a good thing. Think long and hard about the hunting adventure....and not how fast you can kill something. I think everyone wants to shoot a huge trophy animal...but earn it first....the memories will be sweeter later in life!

 

[sestoppelman]

Enysse,

Could not agree more with your last statement. Hardly a day goes by that I dont reminisce on my 5 trips thus far and how much I look forward to my June trip, a return to Zimbabwe where I last hunted in 1996. Except for my first trip, a 7-day buffalo and plains game hunt in Tanzania in 1985 where I shot everything on license, all my others ended with one of my main goals un-met. Whether it was lion in Botswana or big kudu in Zim or Namibia, waterbuck in RSA (my fault), all had their issues. But in common with all my trips was the love of Africa; its smell of campfires, wash water that smells of woodsmoke, the sound of the skinners humming over their work as they flesh the trophy skins, watching the trackers do their magic following the various beast's thru the tall grass or thick thorn bush, the scream of the fish eagle, the ubiqutous doves cooing in the high veld. The triumphant evenings with the delicious cold lager or whiskey neat with your PH after a good days hunt when whether or not one killed anything that day or not is of no real consequence because after all, you are in Africa, and it cost a lot of cash to go on safari, so enjoy the little things to the fullest and the big things will come and go as they choose. Like many things in life, the anticipation can and often does exceed the actual event, and Africa is no different in that regard. The big difference is as has been said before; even a so-so day spent in Africa hunting is better than a pretty good day anywhere else!

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I think people have to think about the memories of the hunt, years down the road. There are many ways the hunt can be carried out! Sometimes the cheapest hunts aren't the best, killing 15 animals in 7 days can be a bad thing, and hunting hard for just one animal can be a good thing. Think long and hard about the hunting adventure....and not how fast you can kill something. I think everyone wants to shoot a huge trophy animal...but earn it first....the memories will be sweeter later in life!

Spot on!

 

[theov]

I think people have to think about the memories of the hunt, years down the road. There are many ways the hunt can be carried out! Sometimes the cheapest hunts aren't the best, killing 15 animals in 7 days can be a bad thing, and hunting hard for just one animal can be a good thing. Think long and hard about the hunting adventure....and not how fast you can kill something. I think everyone wants to shoot a huge trophy animal...but earn it first....the memories will be sweeter later in life!

The fact that people say they can guarantee a "trophy" is down right a lie unless that is the only animal and it was released into that area a few day before. I think the important part here is the word trophy... or should it read record book entry.... gold medal... Yes it is every hunters dream to do that but please do not make it "cheap"... I am not talking in monetary terms. The hunt itself should be part of the trophy the memories will last longer... I read an article the other day the person said she cannot remember her moms telephone number and forget small things however she can remember every little detail of the hunt of every single animal she has ever hunted.... that is true hunter. The memories that we make now is the fuel for the fire in our old age. Let's make memories not record book entries.... if it happens it is a huge bonus. The Germans have it right with Waidmanns heil - translated to English.

This is the hunter’s badge of honour:
That he protect and tend his quarry,
Hunt with respect, as is due,
And through the animal to God is true.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

The fact that people say they can guarantee a "trophy" is down right a lie unless that is the only animal and it was released into that area a few day before.

I agree 100 percent with you, Theov

 

[Paul]

Ever play a game where there is a 100% chance of winning? There isn't much excitement. It's like playing Monopoly with an 8 year-old. You'll win all right, but the outcome was never in doubt. Whooop-de-doo. It's like watching your favorite team play the Detroit Lions. Sure, they'll win, but by the next day the game won't even be remembered.

The best hunts are those when you aren't really sure it will work out. I think that's why the trophy that magically appears during the last hour of the last day of the hunt will forever stand out. It's the uncertainty that keeps it fun. Collecting a head for the wall is OK I guess, sort of like collecting collector plates or shot glasses. Really though, I dump money on the taxidermist mostly to remember the friends, the stalk, and the sunrise over the desert that day. Anything else is sort of like fishing at the fish hatchery.

ain't that true....but so easy to forget

cheers
Paul

 

[theov]

ain't that true....but so easy to forget

cheers
Paul

Paul

You sound like a true hunter, and the original quote says it all...

Welcome to the Brotherhood of Hunters and memory makers...

Theo