What is wrong with you people?

[enysse]

The fact that people say they can guarantee a "trophy" is down right a lie unless that is the only animal and it was released into that area a few day before. I think the important part here is the word trophy... or should it read record book entry.... gold medal... Yes it is every hunters dream to do that but please do not make it "cheap"... I am not talking in monetary terms. The hunt itself should be part of the trophy the memories will last longer... I read an article the other day the person said she cannot remember her moms telephone number and forget small things however she can remember every little detail of the hunt of every single animal she has ever hunted.... that is true hunter. The memories that we make now is the fuel for the fire in our old age. Let's make memories not record book entries.... if it happens it is a huge bonus. The Germans have it right with Waidmanns heil - translated to English.

This is the hunter’s badge of honour:
That he protect and tend his quarry,
Hunt with respect, as is due,
And through the animal to God is true.

My term for cheap= Is when you compare trips for the same animal, don't assume the cheapest hunt is the best hunt. Cape buffalo hunts can vary pretty greatly in Africa. I don't want to get in a arguement with anyone on that one, some are very wild and some are very tame in comparison.

The same thing for a comparing a plains game hunt in Zimbabwe or Benin for that matter to some hunts in Namibia or South Africa.

Some ranches you can really stack the animals up if you want to....others that would be quite hard. There is a lot of variety in Africa.

A lot of plains game hunts can be frustrating hard. I still don't have a big warthog...but I have a nice bushbuck I got on the last day....sometime you get lucky.

Don't measure a hunt on how many animals you kill....but the people you meet, the scenery you see....etc.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

A lot of plains game hunts can be frustrating hard. I still don't have a big warthog...but I have a nice bushbuck I got on the last day....sometime you get lucky.

Well, you need a reason to come back, dont you?

 

[enysse]

Well, you need a reason to come back, dont you?

You are a 100 percent correct! I definitely want a big warthog for the memory chest! Will definitely be near the top of the list!

 

[Bobpuckett]

With me its not just the price or the Size of the trophy or even the amount of trophies, its the memory at the end of the trip and the ones you get to share it with. Who doesn’t like reliving the good times? Bob

 

[spike.t]

i have looked at this discussion a few times to try and, how shall we say get my head around the way the initial statement from skyline, seems to have been turned into an attack on game ranches and people that hunt on them. i found skylines opening lines a bit melodramatic. he states he is an agent , but his profile simply states he is from mb (i presume this is manitoba?) canada, nothing else. i understand the fact that he likes to be in the middle of nowhere, dont we all? but as we are talking about africa here, and not the backwoods of canada , it means we are talking about a lot of money to hunt the open government run safari areas. as a passing comment i notice that there are a few people involved in this discussion that state they have hunted south africa, which means they have hunted on a fenced ranch, unless i am mistaken of course. to get back to the topic, i think its charly who says he tried to make it clear the sable was to be hunted on a game ranch not far from lusaka. the ranch or private reserve hunts in zambia tend to be used by the main safari operators, when either their quota of a species has been used , or they dont have that species in their hunting block that the client requires (you can also hunt these reserves in their own right). i am very happy that the majority of people conversing here have the money to hunt in open safari areas, but judging from the amount of people who hunt south african, namibian and while they are still there zimbabwean game ranches, plus other countries establishments, these hunters are the ones who keep most hunting in africa going. the people who book the big hunts, who are not too bothered about the cost are unfortunately a dying breed. they are not being replaced by the same amount of younger people. with the growing populations in african countries, and the demand for land, be it for agriculture, or with the discovery of minerals etc, and the ensuing creation of wealth, the money brought in from safari hunting will become insignificant. the goverment hunting areas will slowly cease to exist, and guess what you will have to hunt on private reserves. so please dont be so quick to put them down, because in the end they might be all we, or our children have, to be able to go and play in the bush.

 

[enysse]

i have looked at this discussion a few times to try and, how shall we say get my head around the way the initial statement from skyline, seems to have been turned into an attack on game ranches and people that hunt on them. i found skylines opening lines a bit melodramatic. he states he is an agent , but his profile simply states he is from mb (i presume this is manitoba?) canada, nothing else. i understand the fact that he likes to be in the middle of nowhere, dont we all? but as we are talking about africa here, and not the backwoods of canada , it means we are talking about a lot of money to hunt the open government run safari areas. as a passing comment i notice that there are a few people involved in this discussion that state they have hunted south africa, which means they have hunted on a fenced ranch, unless i am mistaken of course. to get back to the topic, i think its charly who says he tried to make it clear the sable was to be hunted on a game ranch not far from lusaka. the ranch or private reserve hunts in zambia tend to be used by the main safari operators, when either their quota of a species has been used , or they dont have that species in their hunting block that the client requires (you can also hunt these reserves in their own right). i am very happy that the majority of people conversing here have the money to hunt in open safari areas, but judging from the amount of people who hunt south african, namibian and while they are still there zimbabwean game ranches, plus other countries establishments, these hunters are the ones who keep most hunting in africa going. the people who book the big hunts, who are not too bothered about the cost are unfortunately a dying breed. they are not being replaced by the same amount of younger people. with the growing populations in african countries, and the demand for land, be it for agriculture, or with the discovery of minerals etc, and the ensuing creation of wealth, the money brought in from safari hunting will become insignificant. the goverment hunting areas will slowly cease to exist, and guess what you will have to hunt on private reserves. so please dont be so quick to put them down, because in the end they might be all we, or our children have, to be able to go and play in the bush.

That is exactly why Skyline, Big5 and others are worried....They don't Africa to become a hunt in fence proposition.

I understand the whole "game ranch" picture and accept that if the land wasn't raising wildlife it cound be used for agriculture, cattle raisings, houses or other stuff other than wildlife.

Some people believe if we didn't have fences, the anti's would accept hunting more and since there was no fences...then we would be obligated to set land aside for wildlife conservation. It's a nice dream...but not realistic...the human species is all about me and greed...and wildlife conservation will for the most part play a second fiddle to making a dollar and getting ahead.

 

[LouisB]

Hi Guy’s

Enysse while there is a lot of truth to your comments I would have to say that there are a lot of guys out there who are in it for the love of wildlife and the future conservation.

Weather you have a ranch/permanent concessions in South Africa/ Namibia or own a concession in Zim/Mos/Bots or TZ it takes a lot of hard work and money to keep the places sure our clients put us in the position to spend money on these areas and a lot of people are extremely thankful for each clients contribution.

The pressure is coming from all over higher concession fees, landowners raising prices ……………..?

Then as soon as the people who are using these areas cant pay the bills to land owners, fat cats in government and ………………. They lose it and the land will either be divided up in to small patches of 500acres and be sold off or the concession will simply be taken away and used for something ells.

I understand that clients can’t keep paying massive trophy fees, our clients need a break as well and they have other obligations.

The point is there are a lot of people out there who love Africa and I know you are one of them, we appreciate the fact that people are willing to spend their hard earned cash here and support the future of hunting in Africa, I don’t necessarily agree with 4 day Sable hunts nor with 10 day ten animals hunts but it is money going in to hunting and as long as people make money out of it there it is viable to keep the land for wildlife.

In saying that I don’t think that being critical or game ranches will solve anything, I am sure that you will find that if you look closely these people have invested a lot of money in to their land they will most probably never get it back so a lot of them are mostly in to it for the love of it!

There is truth to the statement that certain people get consumed by greed, you need not have to look any further than the price we in SA have to pay for a Cape Buffalo hunts but unfortunately some of these people are not in the hunting industry but in game breeding.

You are sort of getting a monopoly forming amongst the breeders that they don’t want to even sell you a buffalo cow for a lower rate( i.e. $10 000 vs $58 000) if she is almost dead and there is a slim chance of her giving some other guy a calve they would rather have to caw shot for R20 000 than sell her to another land owner?

There are a lot of game breeders out there who have invested $1000 000’s in breading so I understand their point as well but would it really be that bad to sell a guy an old cow for a reduced rate to see if he can get at least one calve out of her instead of simply having her shot for virtually nothing if you compare it to $10 000 that I am sure most will be willing to pay?

This is an extremely sad situation since I believe that a lot of people will benefit from having DG priced a bit lower on fenced land this will also provide a deferent perspective to the popular well it’s not wild if there is a fence story?

But we have our self’s to blame since we promote and sell those hunts on a regular basis?

This is not an attack on anyone and surely not on you Enysse I think you know exactly where I am coming from we should start to look at the bigger picture and stop thinking about just today there are a lot of things happening out there that play a major role in the future of hunting in Africa.

Best Regards
Louis van Bergen

 

[enysse]

No offense taken Louis,

I support game ranching! Look at all the wonderful animals that have come about in Namibia and South Africa. The animal quality gets better every year. And because it benefits the animals and hopefully the people in the hunting industry...I'm more than Ok with it.

I haven't slept much in the last few weeks, so my typing is bad.

Open areas with no fences are always going to be in demand. And I'm very happy the war in Mozambique is over...the wildlife is getting better and better there. And hunting without fences is possible in Africa. You might have to spend more time and money to get your animals...but it is possible.

At the end of day I understand hunting behind a fence and think there are a lot of good memories that can be had!!! If there were no fences there whould be probably be a quarter of the game you see today in RSA and Namibia...and that might be a over estimation. The quality of game would not be good either. At the end of the day the hunting is better...because there is better control and less pressure on the game. Which is excellent.

Can't wait to get back to the "promised land".

 

[Louw]

Skyline

You know, I had this before ass well, yes, mostly from clients. It sometimes is a pitty that some hunters put more value on the trophy itself(Measurements etc), in stead of adding value on a hunt, a excellent hunt, and hunting experience, chasing afters a Gold medal!, Missing out on a great hunt. Yes, I agree, the clients pay, but is it not what a real hunter is about; have the hunt of a lifetime, even only by taking "just"a representative trophy?!!!!! I, myself as Professional hunter, will never garuntee even "a"Springbok, even though I know there are 1000+ on the area!
Regards
Louw

 

[WARTY09]

I like to see someone that will stand up for the real meaning of hunting. When a man would take an animal to feed his family and not just to fill his ego. These so call CANNED hunts are somewhat sad for the animals. But you are swinging a double edge sword, and these guys are only giving people what they want. Blame the so called sportsmen that take this trophies not the man that is feeding himself by doing it. I have been a part of the mule deer auction tags and have videoed and patterned big 200 plus inch mule deer in the rut for the owner of the tag. I really dont agree with the system, but its going happen and someone is going to get paid. I with you and feel for the person that thinks this is hunting, but different strokes for different fokes.

 

[35bore]

I agree that the fair chase is best, but, I don't knock the farm hunts.......Because...... You don't know the person buying the hunt, plain and simple. There has to be a market for these type of hunts, otherwise they would not be offered. The CEO of some XXL company may have all the money in the world, but, his obligations to the company limit his days to do what he wants, maybe he loves hunting in places he has never hunted before, so he has 6 days during the summer to hunt, if he hunts Africa, theres 2 days in an airplane, so he opts for a 4 day package.

Flip side of the coin, a guy who has all the time in the world to hunt, and put's food on the table doing so, but, has limited income. He longs for Africa most of his life, scrimps and saves every dime he can, and a package like this comes along. What would you do, in his shoes?

My point here is whether you hunt a farm on a 4 day hunt or 21 days in the true wild of Africa, who cares, you or him just did what only a handful of people get to experience. If you look at global populations, or you home countries population, just imagine how many people out there NEVER get to experience the beauty and wonder that is Africa. What would that percentage be? I guess I am just looking at this from a different point, but, I would never turn down the oppourtunity to go there.

Besides, every Rand spent in Africa helps their economy, hotels, food services, even the roadside stands that sell nick nacks to bring home to your children. That's my 2 cents, I am sorry if you don't agree, but, I think sometimes the veteran African hunter sometimes takes for granted his blessings to be considered a veteran African hunter. Scott.

 

[35bore]

Would like to add on comment, though I have never "hunted a fenced area, I have guided them "whitetail" and the calibre of people I have guided are really good guys. They are more likely than not the CEO ( or the equivilant of ) who does not have alot of time to hunt and wants to make the most of his hunting time. And I don't think we are to judge , unless we walk a day in their shoes, some of these guys don't even see their families for 1-2 weeks at a time. My business is small and i value every second I can spend with my family, but, still have "my time" to persue whitetail, I look forward to being as sucsessful as these guys finacially, but, I feel for them, he pays the price to be with and to enjoy the things they love. Family and hunting in that order. Scott.

I agree that it is the hunt, the memories, and the freindships you make in camp that count, not the trophy that counts. I value their freindships, and am happy to be a part of their hunting memories. If you don't like the high fence hunts then that's your choice, to each his own has been used a couple of times here. I will end this with one statement, don't judge the hunter because he hunts high fence, until you fully understand that hunter and the life he has chosen. Again, Scott.