What is next after .375 in bolt action Rifle?

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

How can you ignore the legend Matt?
Witold

 

[matt85]

the OP asked for a cartridge that would be considered a true big bore and by the original rules that means a minimum of .458" diameter. nothing is wrong with the .416" and .423" cartridges, i was just teasing a little. i used a 416 RM on my last hunt and was pleased with its performance.

the 450 Rigby is likely a great cartridge but the only history it has behind it is the Rigby name. the 458 Lott is easily the most practical .458" bolt action rifle cartridge (in my opinion) but again it has a limited history. another option is the 460 Weatherby which has more history behind it then the 450 Rigby despite its bad reputation for excessive recoil. all three of these .458" cartridges would likely serve the OP very well but they all ride the border of just barely being considered big bore cartridges.

the 505 Gibbs and 500 jeffery are true legends in their own right! both cartridges have been taking African game for around 100 years (505 Gibbs at 104 years and 500 Jeffery at 95 years). both cartridges are big enough to stop the angriest critters but light enough as to not require an overly heavy rifle. the recoil on both cartridges is heavy but not so heavy that you cant get in some good practice at the range.

now the 585 HE and the 600 OK are new players in the game and are considered overkill for anything but elephant. but if your wanting the biggest and baddest toy on the block and dont mind seriously heavy recoil then they are great cartridges! i am currently waiting on a rifle chambered in 585 HE to be built for me and i almost bought a rifle in 600 OK (bought the 505 Gibbs instead).

-matt

 

[CAustin]

Well I didn't have a 375. My biggest rifle was the 45-70 Marlin. I stepped up to a 416,Ruger and after that the 458 Lott. Just to put a quick understandable number to this progression the 45-70 is a 325 grain round. The 416 Ruger is 400 grains and the 458 Lott is 500 grains. There are bigger and faster ones for sure but at the end of the day the 416 or 458 can take on anything.

 

[enysse]

Ultimately, a lot of choices for me came down to affordability. It costs an arm and leg to shoot the big bores, so I checked my wallet before I bought. The 375 H&H, 416 Rem and 458 Win have been light on my pocket and have allowed me to spend more money on hunting not shooting. Ultimately it's up to the buyer. There is no animal on this earth that is walking away very far from a well placed 458 Lott bullet. I didn't buy the 458 Lott, even though I could have got a super deal for one just because I had the 458 Win...and Lott ammo costs WAY TOO MUCH for my pocketbook.

 

[matt85]

Ultimately, a lot of choices for me came down to affordability.

very true!

the bigger you get the more it costs to feed. hand loading is a must for these big cartridges unless your wealthy. the 505 Gibbs costs around $18 a shot if you buy factory ammunition! (can be hand loaded for around $6 a shot)

-matt

 

[enysse]

Very true Matt, even $6 a round makes my stomach turn........my budget is $3 and that bother me A LOT!!!

 

[matt85]

the best big bore for budget purposes is the 458 Lott. hand loading the 458 Lott costs around the same as the 375 H&H depending on bullets used. if you really wanna cheap out you can make the 458 Lott brass from 375 H&H brass to save money on range time. (this crafted brass is not ideal for hunting)

-matt

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Each hobby is costs. This can not be avoided.
Witold

 

[8x68]

I disagree with one statement you made Matt "The 450 Rigby is likely a great cartridge but the only history it has behind it is the Rigby name." I had considered a 500 Jeffery or a 505 Gibbs but the article that Karl Stumpfe wrote about the 450 Rigby convinced me that this is what I wanted. He uses it fairly extensively with great effect.
One of the owners of a hunting store I used to work at had a 505 Gibbs and loved it.
I almost bought a 500 Jeffery but my hesitation was the cartridge's rebated rim. A few articles I had read from hunters returning from African hunts where the cartridges had failed to extract due to extractors "jumping" the rim kinda didn't sit well. Not good when your quarry would've taken great pleasure in stomping you into a greasy spot or enjoying you as dinner!
To each his own when it comes to making decisions. Some like this, some like that. Whatever one chooses...feel comfortable with that choice otherwise you won't enjoy it (no were not including alcohol filled one nighter's in this discussion people. Suddenly I hear several dismayed moans of regret)
I like the 450 Rigby and 404, Witold likes the 404, some like the 458 Lott, or 416 Rigby, Matt likes calibres with very large holes!
Great thing; or sad thing depending on point of view, about the passion for hunting: "A lifetime of discussions but not enough life to discuss them!"

 

[matt85]

I disagree with one statement you made Matt "The 450 Rigby is likely a great cartridge but the only history it has behind it is the Rigby name."

the cartridge was designed in 1994, hard to have much history when its only been around 21 years. compared to the 458 Lott which has been around 44 years and the 460 Weatherby which has been around 56 years.

not having history doesnt make a cartridge less effective but in some cases it makes it less desirable. a rifle chambered in 416 Rigby is generally considered more valuable then a rifle chambered in 416 RM despite the two cartridges being ballistic twins in standard loading. its more about the stories attached to the cartridge rather then its actual performance.

for the 500 Jeffery, ive heard the same horror stories about extractors jumping the rim. its these very stories that put me onto the 505 Gibbs cartridge. however, plenty of people still use the 500 Jeffery without issue so i suspect the issue is likely the fault of poorly constructed rifles. you cant just slap together a 500 Jeffery or a 505 Gibbs, the action and magazine need careful attention by someone who knows how to build these large bore guns.

-matt

 

[Spooksar]

Matt you are probably right about the 458 Lott been the better all around choice in 45 calibre. But I find myself shooting my 450 Rigby more then the Lott. I love both rifles and they will do the job on anything on earth. I like my 505 Gibbs, but at the SCI convention was really looking at a CZ 550 in 500 Jefferies. Got to love the big bores.

 

[8x68]

Unfortunately I've never been a 458 WM or 458 Lott fan. Just personal preference. I wouldn't mind a 505 though! I do like the fact that the 450 Rigby does operate at lower working pressures than similar 458 cal magnum cartridges. Less chance of a shell getting "stuck" in the chamber.
Wasn't A-Square was the first manufacturer to make the 458 Lott commercially available around 1990? If memory serves (dangerous assumption) Ruger introduced the 458 Lott in the M77 to the US market around the same time (give or take a year or two). There wouldn't be a whole lot of time difference involved between the 450 & 458. For some reason though reloading companies publish load data for the 458 Lott and not the 450. One would figure that if a cartridge that is commercially available and has been for 20+ years it would have been tested by one of the major North American reloading companies. I know Woodleigh has data for the 450 (I was one of the fortunate few in Canada to purchase a copy of their new manual) but not everyone shoots Woodleighs as opposed to Hornady, Speer, Sierra etc.
My friend has a 458 Lott and liked it for 3 rounds....4th round severely cracked the stock just behind the tang (BRNO 602 rifle so it some doing). Turns out the gunsmith that was supposed to fine tune it messed up the stock somehow and feed rails (wouldn't feed properly). He still has the rifle. Wants to get it re-worked and re-stocked.

 

[matt85]

the 450 does operate at a lower pressure and also allows for longer/heavier bullets then the 458 Lott. in all intensive purposes from a hand loaders point of view the 450 Rigby and 460 Weatherby are better then the 458 Lott if you ignore the price and availability of brass.

as for the history of the 458 Lott, it was a wildcat cartridge for around 20 years before it was adopted by a major manufacturer. all my times were based on the date the cartridge was invented. i dont know its history well enough to tell you why it took so long for a company to pick it up.

i would consider all three of these .458" rimless cartridges to be relatively new players in the African game. the old guard cartridges are all over 90 years old. the 450 NE 3.25" has been stopping critters for 117 years.

-matt

 

[DUGABOY1]

What is next after .375 in bolt action Rifle?


Maybe I misunderstood the question but the next step up from a 375H&H mag in a bolt rifle would be the 375 Wby Mag! There is nothing between these two. Now the next step up from that is the question that was answered by most here!