What is it about 404 Jeffery?

[Albert GRANT]

Apparently you missed the part where I was being a tad facetious. Even Vlad got it.

My bad for not catching that. I have noted an increase in trolls on here lately and jumped to the wrong conclusion. This was a prime example of not taking the time to step back and think things through before jumping on the keyboard. I can admit when I am wrong. Apologies for my reaction.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

Apparently you missed the part where I was being a tad facetious. Even Vlad got it.

The vlad bit was a bit of a give away, aside from the obvious sarcasm….
We had a smith here that had a heart attack at his shop that nearly killed him, the police attended, as well as ambulance, and seized all of his firearms to "secure them" , no clients were advised of what had happened, smith was in hospital in a bad way, and when clients did find out what had occurred the police wouldn’t let them have their guns back until they were sure of who owned what, the police then cancelled the smith’s license as he was "no longer a fit and proper person " so he couldn’t get the clients guns back either, not sure if everyone eventually got their stuff or not
Gumpy

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

My bad for not catching that. I have noted an increase in trolls on here lately and jumped to the wrong conclusion. This was a prime example of not taking the time to step back and think things through before jumping on the keyboard. I can admit when I am wrong. Apologies for my reaction.

You posted whilst I was typing, good on you for admitting that you were a bit hasty
Gumpy

 

[Rosch]

Regarding to 404 vs 416 Ruger:
Considering brass and bullet avaibility not forgetting fps …
the second price turns quick into first price class!

 

[Captain Munro]

I'd take a stock cz 550 in 404J any day. Upgrades can, and would be, made later. Ideally a Heym in 404J, but that's a pipe dream.

 

[Jefferry404]

love this thread! For the longest time, it was the 416 Rigby, then i fell for the 404 Jeffery. Something about that sexy case and it was the poor man's DGR. My first 404J,

Have a thread going about the stock (Bastogne as well) for my 2nd 404J, this was the consensus, but i must confess I am not following the poor man's DGR path...

 

[Captain Munro]

love this thread! For the longest time, it was the 416 Rigby, then i fell for the 404 Jeffery. Something about that sexy case and it was the poor man's DGR. My first 404J,

View attachment 744490
Have a thread going about the stock (Bastogne as well) for my 2nd 404J, this was the consensus, but i must confess I am not following the poor man's DGR path...

View attachment 744491

View attachment 744492

What a beauty! Who built it?

 

[Jack Stevens]

love this thread! For the longest time, it was the 416 Rigby, then i fell for the 404 Jeffery. Something about that sexy case and it was the poor man's DGR. My first 404J,

View attachment 744490
Have a thread going about the stock (Bastogne as well) for my 2nd 404J, this was the consensus, but i must confess I am not following the poor man's DGR path...

View attachment 744491

View attachment 744492

Beautiful. …. Details on the build, and the builder, please.

 

[Est.1970]

I have to ask - what is it about the 404 Jeffery that has lead to such a cult-like following? From what I can see, there is little to no factory availability on rifles (sub $4k) and factory ammo and reloading supplies are in sparse supply as well compared to other options.

416 rem, ruger, and Rigby are readily available as are brass, factory ammo, and reloading gear. They offer greater SD using a 400grain bullet, and seem to shoot flatter (if only slightly).

I know I’m probably stirring the pot a bit, but I’m honestly looking for the answer. Would also be nice if at least ONE manufacturer could build a 404 Jeff for south of $2k!

“The 404 did all the work, and the 416 Rigby got all the credit.”

Dr. Kevin Robertson(?) on Big game hunting podcast. Excellent podcast talking about how the 404 was issued to all game wardens doing culls back in the day. 416 comes out and gets in harry Selby’s hands and harry and his 416 become celebrities. 404 is immediately forgotten.

 

[Rule 303]

“The 404 did all the work, and the 416 Rigby got all the credit.”

Dr. Kevin Robertson(?) on Big game hunting podcast. Excellent podcast talking about how the 404 was issued to all game wardens doing culls back in the day. 416 comes out and gets in harry Selby’s hands and harry and his 416 become celebrities. 404 is immediately forgotten.

I don't know about the 416 Rigby getting all the Credit. It certainly gained the limelight. I for one had read about the 404J before I even heard about the 416 Rigby. Amazing how many firearms/calibres stood out due to marketing yet were no better than those in the shadows.

 

[Jack Stevens]

“The 404 did all the work, and the 416 Rigby got all the credit.”
Dr. Kevin Robertson(?) on Big game hunting podcast. Excellent podcast talking about how the 404 was issued to all game wardens doing culls back in the day. 416 comes out and gets in harry Selby’s hands and harry and his 416 become celebrities. 404 is immediately forgotten.

Pretty much this ^^^^^.

Same with Hemingway’s short story, “The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber.” It instantly elevated the .505 Gibbs to Legendary giant-killer status.

 

[Rule 303]

Pretty much this ^^^^^.

Same with Hemingway’s short story, “The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber.” It instantly elevated the .505 Gibbs to Legendary giant-killer status.

I would like to see what the Rigby was credited with. Only know of it been associated with Selby and the 404 with the Game Wardens (Forget which country) and other hunters.

 

[Jack Stevens]

I would like to see what the Rigby was credited with. Only know of it been associated with Selby and the 404 with the Game Wardens (Forget which country) and other hunters.

Well, Selby and the 416 Rigby reached celebrity status courtesy of the writer Ruark. In particular, if I recall it correctly, Ruark’s book Horn of the Hunter was the primary vehicle.

 

[Rule 303]

Well, Selby and the 416 Rigby reached celebrity status courtesy of the writer Ruark. In particular, if I recall it correctly, Ruark’s book Horn of the Hunter was the primary vehicle.

That's basically what I said when I said it got the limelight, this does not equate to "Credit". It's because of what I had read of the 404J that I wanted one, the one hunter (Selby) that I read of did not give me a longing for the 416 Rigby. I ended up with a 416 Rigby(no regrets) because the 404J's I could get at the time cost several thousand dollars more.

So, going by what I have read the 404 still got the credit, it was just did not achieve celebrity status.

 

[Accidental Villain]

“The 404 did all the work, and the 416 Rigby got all the credit.”

Dr. Kevin Robertson(?) on Big game hunting podcast. Excellent podcast talking about how the 404 was issued to all game wardens doing culls back in the day. 416 comes out and gets in harry Selby’s hands and harry and his 416 become celebrities. 404 is immediately forgotten.

Where on earth are you guys getting this from? Its total BS of course.

1. The number of famous PH`s, well know authors/personality's using Rigby 416 BG`s is quite long specially considering the very low production numbers.

2. Back in the day 404 Jeff had conventional bullets trotting along at about 2000-2100 fps, 416 rigby had steel enveloped premium bullets at around 2300-2400 fps. I believe John Rigby personally specified steel enveloped bullets when commissioning from Kynoch. Its like comparing 30-06 with conventional bullets and 300 WinMag with premium bullets. Both of course in its own right very capable rounds, but there is a significant difference.

3. Just a few Rigby BG`s have been built. About 167 pre-WWII and maybe around 100 or so post WWII with desirable features. Of these some pre war where ultra bling-bling Maharajah style that belongs in museums more than belonging under the African sun.. otherwise causing epileptic seizure on user and eventual bystanders, and you`ll see nothing but pink elephants just looking at those darn things.. Others dusting down in posh vaults after maybe seeing Africa once or twice.
But, still, a significant number found its way into the hands of PH`s operating back in the day seeing decades of daily use creating the excellent track record.
Ruark/Selby contributed to the fame of 416Rigby undoubtedly, nobody is denying that but its much much more to it.

 

[Rule 303]

Accidental Villain, you answered your own question. The work 167 rifles do compared to the somewhat larger number9I do not (what they were) of the 404J's did, especially in the hands of the Game Scouts when doing animal control. The 404J would have taken far more animals, hence the work, than the 416 Rigby.
Also remember that PH mainly used their large calibre rifles to back up the hunter/client, so not much shooting done with them unless used to take meat animals for the camp.

What you say is true, but it does not change the fact that the Rigby got the Fame and the 404 gets the Credit as it did far more work than the 416 Rigby.

 

[Accidental Villain]

Accidental Villain, you answered your own question. The work 167 rifles do compared to the somewhat larger number9I do not (what they were) of the 404J's did, especially in the hands of the Game Scouts when doing animal control. The 404J would have taken far more animals, hence the work, than the 416 Rigby.
Also remember that PH mainly used their large calibre rifles to back up the hunter/client, so not much shooting done with them unless used to take meat animals for the camp.

What you say is true, but it does not change the fact that the Rigby got the Fame and the 404 gets the Credit as it did far more work than the 416 Rigby.

My point is, the narrative that some advocate saying the Rigby is only famous because of Ruark/Selby..thats BS.
There is a long line of well know authors etc starting many decades before Ruark up to quite recently that sucsessfully have used the Rigby package keeping it on the frontpage. If the question is what caliber has taken most BG in Afrika I do believe 7,62x39 and 7,62x51 is strong contenders. Sad and tragic truth.
True that some of the guns carried by PH’s is’nt shot that much, just carried an awful lot. Have one of those. But then again when you really need it to perform you want it to be top notch.

 

[Rule 303]

My point is, the narrative that some advocate saying the Rigby is only famous because of Ruark/Selby..thats BS.
There is a long line of well know authors etc starting many decades before Ruark up to quite recently that sucsessfully have used the Rigby package keeping it on the frontpage. If the question is what caliber has taken most BG in Afrika I do believe 7,62x39 and 7,62x51 is strong contenders. Sad and tragic truth.
True that some of the guns carried by PH’s is’nt shot that much, just carried an awful lot. Have one of those. But then again when you really need it to perform you want it to be top notch.

I see what your saying now. Who else, Author/PH wise used and wrote about the 416 Rigby? I would be interested in reading them.
As for contenders for most game shot, not that we were talking about that particular subject, throw in the 303, 7X57 as well. Yes, unfortunately the 7.62X39 is up there. While the 7.62X51 is a fine cartridge in the 303, 7X57 class a mag full of 7.63X39 into the heart of an Elephant or Buffalo will kill that animal. Yep, sad and tragic.

 

[Accidental Villain]

I see what your saying now. Who else, Author/PH wise used and wrote about the 416 Rigby? I would be interested in reading them.
As for contenders for most game shot, not that we were talking about that particular subject, throw in the 303, 7X57 as well. Yes, unfortunately the 7.62X39 is up there. While the 7.62X51 is a fine cartridge in the 303, 7X57 class a mag full of 7.63X39 into the heart of an Elephant or Buffalo will kill that animal. Yep, sad and tragic.

Well its all out there, Try for example Commander Enderby Blunt (higly recommended), J.A.Hunter, Pondoro Taylor and Tony Sanchez for starters.

Well, then you have one of our Scandinavian adventurers Franz Rosenberg. I will dip into some of hes writings soon. I had the privilege at one point to have access to parts of hes absolutely staggering gun collection for a period. A real learning process. And there was some excellent Rigbys there. He started out around 1916 i believe.
Don`t shoot me if I`m wrong,,but, W.D.M.Bell, if I`m not mistaken, he owned 2 Rigby BG`s..? Have several of his books, have not read them all, but never seen BG`s mentioned. Do not have a clue what he eventually used them for. Brainshoot francolins or impressing local village women..ya know..big guns..big ;D

 

[Rule 303]

Well its all out there, Try for example Commander Enderby Blunt (higly recommended), J.A.Hunter, Pondoro Taylor and Tony Sanchez for starters.

Well, then you have one of our Scandinavian adventurers Franz Rosenberg. I will dip into some of hes writings soon. I had the privilege at one point to have access to parts of hes absolutely staggering gun collection for a period. A real learning process. And there was some excellent Rigbys there. He started out around 1916 i believe.
Don`t shoot me if I`m wrong,,but, W.D.M.Bell, if I`m not mistaken, he owned 2 Rigby BG`s..? Have several of his books, have not read them all, but never seen BG`s mentioned. Do not have a clue what he eventually used them for. Brainshoot francolins or impressing local village women..ya know..big guns..big ;D

Thanks for that list have ready one of Pondoro's books and he mentioned a lot of calibres in it. Bell, did not like the big calibres. Said they would knock him of a stand in the long grass and kicked way to much. He much preferred 303, 7X57, and thought the 333J (from memory) was about the ideal elephant cartridge. Yes he used a 6.5 but didn't like it, said when you hit bone the tail bent round trying to catch the nose.