What is it about 404 Jeffery?

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I used Raitt’s and changed to Gentium Air Freight Services, for the work at that end. Alex Hue did a great job and were way under the other freight mob

@Rule404
Ingwe did all our stuff, I forget who our shipper is. They were booked to fly out on the 14-15th then changed to 21-22 of late month so hopefully on the way.
Bob

 

[IvW]

My daughter has comoleted her National Diploma in Game management, FGASA level 1, advanced tracking, Gun Competancy on all levels. She will be going to AUS in April for a month when she returns she will start her 2 year practical for level 2 IFGA and after that her DG foot safari guide qualification.
Her 404 Jeff on a ZKK602 action is in progress. I am also in process of having 420gr bullets designed and tested fir this rifle. The target speed is 2300fps.
She handles the 375 H&H well but it is too small for the job and the 500 Jeff is a bit too much.

I am very interested to see how this will turn out

 

[Shootist43]

IvW, who is doing the gunsmithing required to turn the 375 H&H into a 404 Jeffery? What do you expect it will cost?

 

[IvW]

Magnum Arms(Sabi rifles) will be doing the re barreling with a Walther barrel and sights to specification and 3 position safety.

Gun stock will be African wild pear done by stock maker in Naboomspruit. Being African we will keep it African.

Rifles have been built to 585 Nyati on this wood without issues.

 

[Rare Breed]

my memory suggests that the 404 was , in the day, considered as a dual purpose round, similar to the 375 h&h today.
it had a light bullet load and a heavy bullet load for different jobs.
probably not as good for dangerous game as 45 and 470 rifles, but could do the job, while possibly being more suited to plains game than the above.
for professional culling more economical than the 45/470 group.
modern bullets have altered this to some degree.
the strength of the 375 is its ability to put a 300 gn dead on at say 100 yds, with a 270 gn a little higher and a 235 a little higher again.
the lighter bullets then have a longer point blank range, and suit lighter game in more open country with the 300 ready to go on nastier things in closer, all with the same sight setting.
change ammo, not the sight.
can't say how the 404 and 416s are in this respect, as have never owned them.
bruce.

I still am amazed at the incredible long distant accuracy I experienced last April with Wintershoek on my cull PG portion of my hunt with the 404J. Two shots at 300 yards with both animals DRT and I am only an average shot which speaks for the caliber and the rifle an MRC not my ability.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I still am amazed at the incredible long distant accuracy I experienced last April with Wintershoek on my cull PG portion of my hunt with the 404J. Two shots at 300 yards with both animals DRT and I am only an average shot which speaks for the caliber and the rifle an MRC not my ability.

What load were you using? 300 yards would be a stretch for 400 gr bullets.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

My daughter has comoleted her National Diploma in Game management, FGASA level 1, advanced tracking, Gun Competancy on all levels. She will be going to AUS in April for a month when she returns she will start her 2 year practical for level 2 IFGA and after that her DG foot safari guide qualification.
Her 404 Jeff on a ZKK602 action is in progress. I am also in process of having 420gr bullets designed and tested fir this rifle. The target speed is 2300fps.
She handles the 375 H&H well but it is too small for the job and the 500 Jeff is a bit too much.

I am very interested to see how this will turn out

420 gr bullets at 2300 fps will have some jump! 400 gr out of my 404 is about all I want to handle and my gun weighs +10 lbs. Sure your daughter will be able to handle it? I'm looking at stepping down to 350 gr. With modern technology I really don't see the need for the old standard 400 gr. Maybe for elephants.

 

[IvW]

What do you know about being a qualified Advance Trail Guide in Africa?
What is the most dangerous of the DG you encounter during this work?
What do you know about dealing with this and other animals during this work?
What do you know about SD and bullet design to be able to deal with this animal when things go south?
What do you know about the legal and other requirements of the areas these safaris are conducted in?

I will rather not post my thoughts....

 

[John Telford]

My daughter has comoleted her National Diploma in Game management, FGASA level 1, advanced tracking, Gun Competancy on all levels. She will be going to AUS in April for a month when she returns she will start her 2 year practical for level 2 IFGA and after that her DG foot safari guide qualification.
Her 404 Jeff on a ZKK602 action is in progress. I am also in process of having 420gr bullets designed and tested fir this rifle. The target speed is 2300fps.
She handles the 375 H&H well but it is too small for the job and the 500 Jeff is a bit too much.

I am very interested to see how this will turn out

Interesting on the 420grns who is doing the bullets for you? BTW Rhino is under new ownership again and they have moved to our doorstep!
Bjinse also has a few options.

 

[Rule 303]

My daughter has comoleted her National Diploma in Game management, FGASA level 1, advanced tracking, Gun Competancy on all levels. She will be going to AUS in April for a month when she returns she will start her 2 year practical for level 2 IFGA and after that her DG foot safari guide qualification.
Her 404 Jeff on a ZKK602 action is in progress. I am also in process of having 420gr bullets designed and tested fir this rifle. The target speed is 2300fps.
She handles the 375 H&H well but it is too small for the job and the 500 Jeff is a bit too much.

I am very interested to see how this will turn out

Congratulations to your daughter and all the best for the rest of her course. To me the 404J is a great way to go and there is a long distance between the recoil of a 404 and a 500J, she should do well with the 404.

 

[Tex .416]

What load were you using? 300 yards would be a stretch for 400 gr bullets.

With a Barnes TSX @2300, 300 yards only requires 7.25 MOA of correction for elevation and 2.75 for a full value 10 mph wind, no big deal with a suitable scope. fwiw - the bullet still has over 2,500 ft/lbs of energy at 300.

 

[Rare Breed]

What load were you using? 300 yards would be a stretch for 400 gr bullets.

Factory ammo not reloads. Not sure what was powder charge

 

[daxter11]

I would say the .404 Jeffery offers nostalgia.
The .404 Jeffery was introduced about 50 years before the .458 Win Mag.

 

[AZDAVE]

Congratulations to your daughter! That 404 will serve her well. Can you post a picture of the wild pear wood. I have worked with a lot of different african wood species but never wild pear.

 

[IvW]

Interesting on the 420grns who is doing the bullets for you? BTW Rhino is under new ownership again and they have moved to our doorstep!
Bjinse also has a few options.

These will be special sokid brass machined bullets mate of mine has a fancy lathe we will make them

 

[colorado]

I think well constructed 400g bullets at 2150 fps should be all she needs. Bullet placement is paramount of course.

 

[Rosch]

I have to ask - what is it about the 404 Jeffery that has lead to such a cult-like following? From what I can see, there is little to no factory availability on rifles (sub $4k) and factory ammo and reloading supplies are in sparse supply as well compared to other options.

416 rem, ruger, and Rigby are readily available as are brass, factory ammo, and reloading gear. They offer greater SD using a 400grain bullet, and seem to shoot flatter (if only slightly).

I know I’m probably stirring the pot a bit, but I’m honestly looking for the answer. Would also be nice if at least ONE manufacturer could build a 404 Jeff for south of $2k!

A look to ballistic tables shows You clearly, that the powerrange of the 404 Jeff. has lots of brothers around. I think the love for 404 Jeffery comes from the idea, that if You own one, You can walk on damned old tracks, hunting like the guys did 100 years ago out there in the bush.
The one who chooses the 404 as a new or custom gun has to pay the price caused by the long shell and so longer action means more expensive parts and work. If You get on the end something which is worse the price, I wouldn't bet.
If You finally have one, You'll spend plenty of Your time getting hold on brass, and if available for terrible high prices. The bullets are also not stored in every gun shop. I know that cause I do shoot .423 bullets as well.

If You dream about a gun in this range, look close at the 416 Ruger or even 416 Taylor, which do fit both in standard lenght actions, brass is easy available and 416 bullets are all over. For a gun in this calibers You are very much south of $2k!
Also ballistics of both do much better than the old pearl 404 Jeffery. Decide if dreaming or shooting and hunting ?

 

[bowjijohn]

It appears that ivW’s daughter has chosen the 404 as a guide’s rifle

As such it will be used only if the “wheels fall off “

In the protection of either 4x4 based, or walking, tourists

And only at distances not exceeding 15m (20m for ele?)

It is not necessarily being used as a hunting tool

I’m intrigued by the 420 grain 2350ft per sec combination

Should prove a real winner

 

[Ontario Hunter]

A look to ballistic tables shows You clearly, that the powerrange of the 404 Jeff. has lots of brothers around. I think the love for 404 Jeffery comes from the idea, that if You own one, You can walk on damned old tracks, hunting like the guys did 100 years ago out there in the bush.
The one who chooses the 404 as a new or custom gun has to pay the price caused by the long shell and so longer action means more expensive parts and work. If You get on the end something which is worse the price, I wouldn't bet.
If You finally have one, You'll spend plenty of Your time getting hold on brass, and if available for terrible high prices. The bullets are also not stored in every gun shop. I know that cause I do shoot .423 bullets as well.

If You dream about a gun in this range, look close at the 416 Ruger or even 416 Taylor, which do fit both in standard lenght actions, brass is easy available and 416 bullets are all over. For a gun in this calibers You are very much south of $2k!
Also ballistics of both do much better than the old pearl 404 Jeffery. Decide if dreaming or shooting and hunting ?

Okay. Time to once again dispel the myth that 404 Jeffery requires magnum action. Check Wikipedia for the history of this caliber. Jeffery built the original rifles on standard action 98 Mauser because he couldn't get his hands on magnum actions. Rigby had production of those locked up. At standard COL, a loaded cartridge will just clear the unmodified ejection port of standard action Mauser. Of course bottom metal, feeding rails, and loading ramp must all be modified, but that's it. Standard 98 Mauser action can also be built into 375 H&H and even 416 Rigby (ask Harry Selby) but those cartridges do require shaving metal from the locking ring.

I built my 404J on standard action Czech vz.24 Mauser action. I did the modifications to feeding rails, loading ramp, and extractor. It cycles flawlessly, smooth as glass. A magnum action has no advantages for 404 except longer bolt stroke and heavier weight. But I'm not sure greater potential for short stroking gun jam and sore shoulder from carrying overweight gun can be considered advantageous.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

A look to ballistic tables shows You clearly, that the powerrange of the 404 Jeff. has lots of brothers around. I think the love for 404 Jeffery comes from the idea, that if You own one, You can walk on damned old tracks, hunting like the guys did 100 years ago out there in the bush.
The one who chooses the 404 as a new or custom gun has to pay the price caused by the long shell and so longer action means more expensive parts and work. If You get on the end something which is worse the price, I wouldn't bet.
If You finally have one, You'll spend plenty of Your time getting hold on brass, and if available for terrible high prices. The bullets are also not stored in every gun shop. I know that cause I do shoot .423 bullets as well.

If You dream about a gun in this range, look close at the 416 Ruger or even 416 Taylor, which do fit both in standard lenght actions, brass is easy available and 416 bullets are all over. For a gun in this calibers You are very much south of $2k!
Also ballistics of both do much better than the old pearl 404 Jeffery. Decide if dreaming or shooting and hunting ?

404 has indeed seen a dramatic resurgence in popularity. Consequently, loaded ammo and component availability is growing (albeit cautiously) to meet demand. ANY of the thumper calibers are expensive to shoot. No news there. But I anticipate this African "darling" will only increase in popularity ... and suppliers will meet the demand. Will 404 become cheaper to shoot? Maybe a little. I suppose if cheap shooter interested me I would buy a new American mass produced for-shit-quality-control plastic stock rifle in a US bred novelty cartridge (tons to pick from).

Trying to remember the last time I saw 416 Taylor ammo on the shelf ... um ... like never?