What is going on with tipping culture in the hunting industry?

[Sabre]

I was looking at a two day axis hunt in Hawaii with no meals or lodging and the suggested tip was $350 a day, besides the cost of the hunt, I didn't book. I work as a mechanic and I sure as heck don't make $350 a day let alone ever get a tip for repairing someone's vehichle. So what it really boils down to is it's a lot of $

I went on a guided hunt and before the hunt an email was sent out. In the email was some "helpful tipping guidelines".

It basically said that if you were on a fully guided hunt you should tip 20%. If you were on a semi-guided hunt, you should still tip about 20%, because they are actually working harder on those than some fully guided hunts and you just don't see it. There were some other caveats which only involved the tip being at 20% or going even higher. All of it was basically saying to tip at least $250-$350 per day (when you looked at the percentages). Even in some instances when very little would be done by the guide.

 

[375Fox]

I am happy to tip my guide/PH well if we are unsuccessful if they are putting in the effort to make the hunt successful. Because it is hunting and anything can happen.

However, where I think the North American model of guided hunt is defective is in how it charges for hunts. All of the risk is on the client, which was acceptable when hunts were reasonably priced. However, now an elk hunt can easily be $25,000+ These costs are exorbitant and clients shouldn't be the only ones with skin in the game at prices like that, in my opinion. But, North Americans are conditioned to eat the risk from when hunts were reasonably priced and the hunting culture was formed.

A much better and more fair model would be a price for the hunt and a trophy fee upon success. But I don't fault outfitters for sticking with the current model while there are still enough clients willing to do it and pay those prices.

Either way, I don't think that pertains to the tip, which, for me, will always be a combination of effort and success. I won't tip a guide less for success on day 1 of a 5 day hunt just because they had to work less days. Maybe they put in so many hours scouting that we had quicker success. And I will still tip without success if they work hard and are fun to be around.

I agree and I disagree with you. Part of reason I like Africa and Europe over North American hunts is the day rate and trophy fee model, but also the long season and quota model. North America is special that it tries to maximize opportunity to hunters but limit harvest with a short season. Europe and Africa are managed on quota and long seasons where only a select few participate. That model gives the hunter a lot of ability to reschedule but it also gives the outfitter a lot of opportunity to take unharvested game with other hunters or book new hunters. An outfitter in North America can’t offer your tag to the next hunter that comes in or rebook another hunter 3 or 4 months later to try again.

 

[Sabre]

I don't have a good answer to the question, but will relate personal experience. In the late '90's I guided archery elk hunters for an outfitter friend of mine. We were typically up at 4 a.m. and usually to bed by 10 p.m. The rest of the day (about 18 hrs.) was guiding, horseback riding, cleaning and hauling out elk. My weekly pay (6 day hunt)j was $500 gross, before taxes taken out. Net was about $360 if I recall. I remember one hunter (a lawyer) who tagged a nice 300 pt. bull. He had forgotten film for his camera (yeah, it was that long ago!), so I gave him a spare roll I kept in my pack. At the end of the hunt, not only did he not leave a tip, but didn't even pay me for the roll of film! Didn't take me long to recognize I was making about $3 per hour for the long days and never went back. So, I guess the point is that even $100 per day tip is not a lot given what the guide/PH has to put up with.

I feel like a bigger issue there was, why wasn't the outfitter fairly compensating you for your time. Because it sounds like at that pay rate, it would have taken a lot in tips to even make it worth it. And if you had made $100/day in tips, that would have been about double what your net pay from the outfitter was. And of course, you did the reasonable thing in that scenario and quite working for that outfitter.

 

[Brent in Az]

I just want to know where the deal on the $80k full bag safari is happening

LOL..... Prices of yesteryear I guess

 

[Dinsdale]

I have been fine with tipping in general and would say even a bit pro tipping. I have received a few nice tips from clients at the end of big jobs and its always a surprise and a nice jester.

Last two hunts I had the PH and truck crew(2 trackers and 2 game scouts) thank me for the tips I gave out.

Neither hunt did any of the camp crew make even an attempt to thank me despite being around camp several hours before actually leaving.

Im done……this has really started to get ridiculous, both on hunts and in everyday life.

No way I’m ever leaving these ridiculous requests for insane amounts. Im happy not to come back to your camps ever.

 

[Sabre]

I agree and I disagree with you. Part of reason I like Africa and Europe over North American hunts is the day rate and trophy fee model, but also the long season and quota model. North America is special that it tries to maximize opportunity to hunters but limit harvest with a short season. Europe and Africa are managed on quota and long seasons where only a select few participate. That model gives the hunter a lot of ability to reschedule but it also gives the outfitter a lot of opportunity to take unharvested game with other hunters or book new hunters. An outfitter in North America can’t offer your tag to the next hunter that comes in or rebook another hunter 3 or 4 months later to try again.

It's true that North America makes it more difficult because of the limited seasons. But there is still a massive disparity in assumption of risk between client and outfitter here. And for now, it's working and clients are still accepting almost all that risk. My opinion is that it is untenable for the long run.

What will likely happen is the pool of hunters going on these hunts will continue to shrink to a tiny pool. People will seek out more reasonable opportunities, and also people will just abandon hunting as a hobby, this is of course already happening.

Also, the average age of a hunter has been steadily increasing in North America. As the aging population of hunters ends up imploding once the majority can't hunt anymore or pass away, there will be a drastic shift in North American hunt costs. In theory it could go much lower or much higher at that point.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

let me throw this one out there. the person that owns the safari company, property, animals everything is also your PH. so he is the guy making all the money off your hunt so you tip the tracker, house keeping and the cook, no issues with that. BUT should you tip the Owner/PH and how much?

 

[Scott CWO]

I haven’t been on many guided hunts in North America. Went on a $650 turkey hunt one time and I was self guided and didn’t tip anyone. I have been on a few guided duck hunts and didn’t tip, just paid the hunt fee. I usually go the lease route for deer but will be mule deer hunting this year and next year. $100/day might be what I tip at best unless I get into something really nice but that’s kind of why you pay the hunt cost in the first place. If my guide has went above and beyond then he might get $100/day. If not then I maybe inclined to go with $50/day. Especially when I have to rent a car and drive 3-5 hours myself to get to the lodge or whatever. A rental car for 5 days ends up being $500 by itself.

You’re a little low and what does a rental car have to do with anything? 10%-12% is a good rule of thumb and tipping is not usually done by the day in NA.

 

[Scott CWO]

I don't have a good answer to the question, but will relate personal experience. In the late '90's I guided archery elk hunters for an outfitter friend of mine. We were typically up at 4 a.m. and usually to bed by 10 p.m. The rest of the day (about 18 hrs.) was guiding, horseback riding, cleaning and hauling out elk. My weekly pay (6 day hunt)j was $500 gross, before taxes taken out. Net was about $360 if I recall. I remember one hunter (a lawyer) who tagged a nice 300 pt. bull. He had forgotten film for his camera (yeah, it was that long ago!), so I gave him a spare roll I kept in my pack. At the end of the hunt, not only did he not leave a tip, but didn't even pay me for the roll of film! Didn't take me long to recognize I was making about $3 per hour for the long days and never went back. So, I guess the point is that even $100 per day tip is not a lot given what the guide/PH has to put up with.

Geez your outfitter friend did not pay enough even back then.

 

[Scott CWO]

let me throw this one out there. the person that owns the safari company, property, animals everything is also your PH. so he is the guy making all the money off your hunt so you tip the tracker, house keeping and the cook, no issues with that. BUT should you tip the Owner/PH and how much?

If he’s your PH, yes. The amount depends on the type and price of hunt. If he refuses it, fine.

 

[Sabre]

let me throw this one out there. the person that owns the safari company, property, animals everything is also your PH. so he is the guy making all the money off your hunt so you tip the tracker, house keeping and the cook, no issues with that. BUT should you tip the Owner/PH and how much?

Yes, I would still tip him for the job he did as my PH and I would tip him what I would tip any other PH for that type of hunt.

 

[CamoManJ]

Tipping is required because the person is underpaid. One way or another, it costs you. If they were paid well, the cost would be higher. It's a hidden cost. The only one that could lose/gain is the person relying on it. I don't believe in a 20 percent minimum. That's just something pulled out of their butt. In the US, it's expected. I don't tip more. I realize that the worker depends on it. I had a service type business for 20 years. Some people tipped and most did not. I never expected it. I was surprised if I got it but I determined my compensation in advance. In my opinion, 10-20 percent is fair.

I respectfully disagree with you, Sir. Tipping is not a requirement, absolutely not. Tipping is extra on top of advertised service. If a person is underpaid that’s on them, change jobs if they don’t like it or perform better service. I’m happy to set apart the service providers by a large margin based on performance with more or less cash. To tell me it’s required or how much or they are being underpaid…I disagree.

 

[3chunter]

You’re a little low and what does a rental car have to do with anything? 10%-12% is a good rule of thumb and tipping is not usually done by the day in NA.

Well in Africa I get picked up from the airport. I am not going to pay someone more if I have to get a rental and drive versus someone picking me up at the airport.
It also matters of the owner is your guide in my opinion. I am not going to pay an owner/guide same tip as just the guide. If I know the guide just lives off tips then I will tip more all things equal.

 

[Scott CWO]

I see this from both sides. I guide and book hunts as a client. In NA, I think 10-12% for the guide is our average. It’s also nice if you give a little to the cook and wrangler.

 

[Scott CWO]

Well in Africa I get picked up from the airport. I am not going to pay someone more if I have to get a rental and drive versus someone picking me up at the airport.
It also matters of the owner is your guide in my opinion. I am not going to pay an owner/guide same tip as just the guide. If I know the guide just lives off tips then I will tip more all things equal.

Agree to disagree. In NA, your guide’s time is better spent scouting and preparing for your hunt. Most guides don’t do airport runs. Travel in the US is way cheaper than Africa. If we do airport runs, it is added to the price of the hunt and has nothing to do with the guides.

 

[wildwilderness]

I don't have a good answer to the question, but will relate personal experience. In the late '90's I guided archery elk hunters for an outfitter friend of mine. We were typically up at 4 a.m. and usually to bed by 10 p.m. The rest of the day (about 18 hrs.) was guiding, horseback riding, cleaning and hauling out elk. My weekly pay (6 day hunt)j was $500 gross, before taxes taken out. Net was about $360 if I recall. I remember one hunter (a lawyer) who tagged a nice 300 pt. bull. He had forgotten film for his camera (yeah, it was that long ago!), so I gave him a spare roll I kept in my pack. At the end of the hunt, not only did he not leave a tip, but didn't even pay me for the roll of film! Didn't take me long to recognize I was making about $3 per hour for the long days and never went back. So, I guess the point is that even $100 per day tip is not a lot given what the guide/PH has to put up with.

That is a direct result of the pay arrangement between the outfitter and guides. If no tip was expected I bet the guides would demand higher pay from the Owner/Outfitter (who would then pass it on is cost of the hunt and thus the cycle goes)

As I stated above it’s a way for business owners to transfer the cost of payroll to the consumer. I do see a place where it can be used as a motivator for better customer service but I agree the current Expectation Tip culture is broken

 

[3chunter]

Agree to disagree. In NA, your guide’s time is better spent scouting and preparing for your hunt. Most guides don’t do airport runs. Travel in the US is way cheaper than Africa. If we do airport runs, it is added to the price of the hunt and has nothing to do with the guides.

I will have to say you can tell if they scout appropriately. When I go November and I don’t think adequate scouting happened before my hunt, that will affect the tip tremendously. At minimum I would think some trail cam pics, recent scouting pics, etc would be shown to me at arrival or before the trip.
The whole “well the deer are in this spot every year” isn’t adequate. Unless I come home with a giant. lol. The end result matters. That’s just facts. The other things do to but I am the type I will sleep outside if it means getting a nice deer or whatever. The amenities are low on priority for me

I once slept in the woods all night in my turkey vest at the base of a cypress tree because a gobbler roosted in it right before dark. I didn’t want to spook him and I was in college so had nowhere to go except hunt all weekend and it was wide open so I stayed at the base of the tree until daylight. Freaking turkey flew 300 yards away out the roost.

 

[Scott CWO]

I will have to say you can tell if they scout appropriately. When I go November and I don’t think adequate scouting happened before my hunt, that will affect the tip tremendously. At minimum I would think some trail cam pics, recent scouting pics, etc would be shown to me at arrival or before the trip.
The whole “well the deer are in this spot every year” isn’t adequate. Unless I come home with a giant. lol. The end result matters. That’s just facts. The other things do to but I am the type I will sleep outside if it means getting a nice deer or whatever. The amenities are low on priority for me

I once slept in the woods all night in my turkey vest at the base of a cypress tree because a gobbler roosted in it right before dark. I didn’t want to spook him and I was in college so had nowhere to go except hunt all weekend and it was wide open so I stayed at the base of the tree until daylight. Freaking turkey flew 300 yards away out the roost.

Maybe for white-tailed deer but trail cams don’t normally work for wilderness elk, sheep, mountain goat, mule deer, etc…

 

[CoElkHunter]

Well, I guess we could flip the thread to discuss the suitability of the .243 Winchester for plains game.

I was thinking somehow intertwining this tip thread with the CRF vs. Push Feed never ending saga? Stay tuned. LOL

 

[CoElkHunter]

How much should one tip if a PH allows a push feed .243 Winchester?

40%. Chasing wounded game gratuity. LOL