What are your not-negotiables for a rifle?

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thanks, I had not seen posts or Banter about the 6mm-08 previously.

Well aware the .243 is only the .308 little brother and come from the same family of case size.

With a .260 and 7mm-08 in the middle I really like the 7mm-08 and used mine a lot.

@CBH Australia
The 243 isn't the little brother of the 308, it's the useless bastard cousin.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Mate,
Speaking of the .25's they have never appealed to me at all...
In all the rifle's l've ever owned l've only ever had a couple of .25's...
One was a .303-25 built on a Arisaka action that was the absolute biggest POS I've ever owned and couldn't wait until it was out of my safe - but the other was nice.
It was a Weatherby Deluxe in .257Wby and l loaded the Nosler Partition 100gn to 3500fps and while it was nice, it didn't really give me the fizz so down the road it went.
I just personally don't get the .25's... much prefer the more compact .243 or one of various .270's which are just... better.
I may be a little biased as l live in Victoria and Sambar are one of my main quarry - and the .25's are not legal for Sambar.
But they do nothing for me and if they do it for you all the more power to you

Russ

@Badboymelvin
Being illegal in sambar is the only reason I didn't use my 25.
A 100gn TTSX would ream out the biggest sambar without a problem.
The beauty of the 25 is it is everything the 24s wanted to be but with heavy bullets in the 25, 120 grains it runs up there with a 130 in a 270.
Hit a sambar with a 25 cal 120gn at 3,300fps and he won't tell you it's not as much as a 130gn 270 at 3,100fps
It's a shame you had bad luck with the 25-303 as even loaded in the weak No1 SMLE it equals the old 250 Savage and that round has killed a lot of deer and elk. I'm not saying it's an elk cartridge but in its day it kill a lot of them.
Call me crazy but I'm taking the 393 barrel off my No1 SMLE and putting a donated 25-303 barrel on it just because. I will then have two barrels for that rifle.
Someone borrowed my 25 reamer and so far in his testing he is getting 3,600 fps with the 80gn TTSX and will end up pushing that to around 3,800 fps. He did it on a P14 Enfield.
He wanted a long range screamer for feral control.
Their ain't a 243 made that can match it.
On top of that I have all the accuracy I need and then some. I can't complain at 0.8" groups at 200 yards.
So me thinks I will stick with my 25s but that's me
Everyone has their likes and fortunately we are all different or the world would be a boring place.
Bob

 

[ZG47]

That detach

Hi.

Like the title says, what are your not-negotiables when purchasing a new rifle?
Now this is obviously going to be a very personal thing and we are all going to have very different ideas on this.
My perfect rifle may be your worst nightmare!
But it's still interesting to hear other people's opinions a- and you never know, my mind might be changed.

Here a are a few of my not-negotiables...

1. NO detachable magazines. I won't buy a rifle with a detachable magazine. I especially don't trust budget rifles with plastic magazines that can wear, get lost or are unreliable.
Floorplates - or better yet, blind magazines for me.
I'll tell you a story... l hunted with a mate who had a Mossberg .308 with 10 shot magazine and we had to walk a fair way to get to our spot. Once we got there my mate somehow realised that he had somehow released his magazine on the walk and now he had a very awkward to load single-shot.
As a side note on the walk back he somehow found it again (!!!) but he never used that rifle hunting again.

2. NO wooden stocks. Once again a very personal choice and l have to add that l love the look of a nice wooden stock as much as the next person, but l absolutely hate scratching stocks, so fancy wood stocks are a no for me these days...
And unlike most people l actually don't mind the looks of a synthetic stock. I think practical has a certain beauty to it.
Having said that l believe that shotguns and quality air rifles SHOULD have a wood stock.
A nice shotgun with a synthetic stock just doesn't look right to me... so what l should've said is all my centrefire hunting rifles have synthetic stocks.

3. NO muzzle brakes. l have owned several big-bore rifles and l have personally never felt the need for a muzzle brake.
YMMV.
Sure, shooting a .458 off the bench is hard work but take your time, fold up a towel and put it between your shoulder and the rifle and hang on!
Once sighted in the hard work is done and l've never felt recoil in the field - even when l've been kissed by the scope.
Not judging other people for using a muzzle brake, they may have an injury etc... but personally for me, l don't want/need one.

4. Heavy rifles. Just sold my last heavy rifle and won't buy another. My hunting style consists of walking, and walking, and walking... yep, light rifles for me.

5. Classic styling. I prefer my rifles to have plain classic lines.

6. NO attachments. Personally - and for the type of hunting l do, l don't need flashlights, bipods or anything like that on my rifle. It just adds weight and l simply would never use them for my style of hunting.

So that's my personal not negotiables for when l buy a rifle.
l'm sure other people's are different and that's totally fine by me.

So what are your personal not-negotiable's when buying a new rifle?

Russ

That detachable magazine should have been in his pack, until you reached your hunting area. Said … as a former New Zealand Mountain Safety Council Firearms Instructor.

 

[Badboymelvin]

That detach

That detachable magazine should have been in his pack, until you reached your hunting area. Said … as a former New Zealand Mountain Safety Council Firearms Instructor.

l disagree.
While we hadn't reached our spot, we were still walking in legal hunting area and there was a chance of seeing a deer at any time.
So l had no problem with my mate having his magazine in his rifle... except it wasn't... it was laying on the ground.

 

[BlueFlyer]

For me, I prefer to build my rifles on ex-military actions, as they have been designed to operate flawlessly in atrocious environments.
The operating lever / bolt handle, must be promonent to aid quick and reliable operation.
Safety on a bolt action must lock the bolt handle and cocking piece.
Hinged floor plate with a 100% reliable catch.
Barrels around 22", with barrel band sling.
Walnut and rust bluing.
Detachable low power scope or red dot with iron sights as backup.

 

[CoElkHunter]

@Badboymelvin
Being illegal in sambar is the only reason I didn't use my 25.
A 100gn TTSX would ream out the biggest sambar without a problem.
The beauty of the 25 is it is everything the 24s wanted to be but with heavy bullets in the 25, 120 grains it runs up there with a 130 in a 270.
Hit a sambar with a 25 cal 120gn at 3,300fps and he won't tell you it's not as much as a 130gn 270 at 3,100fps
It's a shame you had bad luck with the 25-303 as even loaded in the weak No1 SMLE it equals the old 250 Savage and that round has killed a lot of deer and elk. I'm not saying it's an elk cartridge but in its day it kill a lot of them.
Call me crazy but I'm taking the 393 barrel off my No1 SMLE and putting a donated 25-303 barrel on it just because. I will then have two barrels for that rifle.
Someone borrowed my 25 reamer and so far in his testing he is getting 3,600 fps with the 80gn TTSX and will end up pushing that to around 3,800 fps. He did it on a P14 Enfield.
He wanted a long range screamer for feral control.
Their ain't a 243 made that can match it.
On top of that I have all the accuracy I need and then some. I can't complain at 0.8" groups at 200 yards.
So me thinks I will stick with my 25s but that's me
Everyone has their likes and fortunately we are all different or the world would be a boring place.
Bob

Wonder why the .25 is illegal for Sambar there? Here in Colorado, USA it's .243 and up for big game. Although, IMO it should be .25 or maybe even .270 and up for elk and moose. Only because recently there have been a number of reported cases of elk being wounded by hunters using smaller calibers at DISTANCE. A few years ago, the Division of Wildlife was considering a .270 lower limit for elk and moose but it hasn't happened yet. Although, I know a guy I hunted with once who told me that over the years, he had taken six elk with his 6mm Remington using 100gr. Core Lokts, but all the shots were fairly close. He was using his 6mm Remington 700 on that hunt too but didn't get an elk that time. So, I guess shot placement is key at appropriate distances for the cartridge being used. But I agree with you Bob, that an appropriate .25 cartridge with a GOOD 120gr. bullet at a REASONABLE distance would anchor a Sambar or an elk. For me, I'll continue to use YOUR favorite .338 WINCHESTER MAGNUM for MY elk hunting because I don't want to be chasing any wounded elk through the mountains. LOL

 

[CoElkHunter]

Mate,
Speaking of the .25's they have never appealed to me at all...
In all the rifle's l've ever owned l've only ever had a couple of .25's...
One was a .303-25 built on a Arisaka action that was the absolute biggest POS I've ever owned and couldn't wait until it was out of my safe - but the other was nice.
It was a Weatherby Deluxe in .257Wby and l loaded the Nosler Partition 100gn to 3500fps and while it was nice, it didn't really give me the fizz so down the road it went.
I just personally don't get the .25's... much prefer the more compact .243 or one of various .270's which are just... better.
I may be a little biased as l live in Victoria and Sambar are one of my main quarry - and the .25's are not legal for Sambar.
But they do nothing for me and if they do it for you all the more power to you

Russ

If you used Bob's .25 Samurai (.25/7.7 Japanese) wildcat hunting, you'd never look back. LOL

 

[BlueFlyer]

Division of Wildlife was considering a .270 lower limit for elk and moose

That is the ruling here, 270W is the legal minimum for Sambar.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I dont think I have any non negotiables other than I want a rifle that is reliable.. if I cant get it to feed and function reliably, its got to go..

Ive owned a really wide variety of firearms over the years ranging from single shots to semi autos.. CRF, and push feed, blued/walnut and stainless/synthetic, etc.. etc.. and have enjoyed them all.. it doesn't matter if we're talking an entry level gun like a Ruger American or a nicer rifle like one of my Christensens or something even nicer like one of my customs.. they've all served a purpose.. and all brought me joy at some point in time or another..

There are certainly some I have enjoyed more than others.. and certainly certain requirements I have for certain types of shooting or hunting (Im not going to take a push feed on a DG hunt.. and Im not going to take one of my typical "Texas deer blind" guns on a spot and stalk hunt out west where a 400 yard shot might be possible)..

but when its all said and done, Im pretty happy trying just about anything out and haven't found a true non negotiable item that I simply must have or must not have on a firearm..

+1. I'll hunt with almost any rifle as long as it's safe and mechanically functional. I prefer an 8.5lb or less scoped rifle for the hunting I mostly do in the mountains. I've never hunted DG but would use one of my CZ550s if I ever get the chance to do so. But for PG, let me shoot a couple of boxes of ammo (in an appropriate cartridge for the game being hunted) at the range with the rifle/scope I'm going to hunt with and then LET'S GO HUNTING!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Wonder why the .25 is illegal for Sambar there? Here in Colorado, USA it's .243 and up for big game. Although, IMO it should be .25 or maybe even .270 and up for elk and moose. Only because recently there have been a number of reported cases of elk being wounded by hunters using smaller calibers at DISTANCE. A few years ago, the Division of Wildlife was considering a .270 lower limit for elk and moose but it hasn't happened yet. Although, I know a guy I hunted with once who told me that over the years, he had taken six elk with his 6mm Remington using 100gr. Core Lokts, but all the shots were fairly close. He was using his 6mm Remington 700 on that hunt too but didn't get an elk that time. So, I guess shot placement is key at appropriate distances for the cartridge being used. But I agree with you Bob, that an appropriate .25 cartridge with a GOOD 120gr. bullet at a REASONABLE distance would anchor a Sambar or an elk. For me, I'll continue to use YOUR favorite .338 WINCHESTER MAGNUM for MY elk hunting because I don't want to be chasing any wounded elk through the mountains. LOL

@CoElkHunter
If'n y'all don't want to be chasing wounded elk around the mountains get rid of that little 338 wimpchester and get a real rifle.
You know a 35 WHELEN.
Bob

 

[CBH Australia]

Mate,
Speaking of the .25's they have never appealed to me at all...
In all the rifle's l've ever owned l've only ever had a couple of .25's...
One was a .303-25 built on a Arisaka action that was the absolute biggest POS I've ever owned and couldn't wait until it was out of my safe - but the other was nice.
It was a Weatherby Deluxe in .257Wby and l loaded the Nosler Partition 100gn to 3500fps and while it was nice, it didn't really give me the fizz so down the road it went.
I just personally don't get the .25's... much prefer the more compact .243 or one of various .270's which are just... better.
I may be a little biased as l live in Victoria and Sambar are one of my main quarry - and the .25's are not legal for Sambar.
But they do nothing for me and if they do it for you all the more power to you

Russ

Nah mate, all good. I don’t use any .25’s or Man Bun guns.
I was trying to to get a bite from the Whelen nut that only has 2 calibres in his vocabulary.25/.35

@CoElkHunter
If'n y'all don't want to be chasing wounded elk around the mountains get rid of that little 338 wimpchester and get a real rifle.
You know a 35 WHELEN.
Bob

Careful, Russ had one of them too.

 

[wolfhunter]

1. accurate almost all of my rifles are CRF 2. wood is nice but synthetic has its place if they dont shoot min of angle they get rebarreled or sold 3. I DISLIKE MUZZEL BRAKES public shooting ranges are so loud now I dont like to go there. 4. good glass a must. 5. 3 poistion safety I have a few that have remington style. 6. can you hunt with a ugly gun?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Nah mate, all good. I don’t use any .25’s or Man Bun guns.
I was trying to to get a bite from the Whelen nut that only has 2 calibres in his vocabulary.25/.35



Careful, Russ had one of them too.

@CBH Australia
The Whelen is overkill for sambar. The humble 308 is more than enough. A fast 25 with a 120gn
A frame , sirocco, 110gn accubond or even the humble SST would be more than adequate in my book
Bob

 

[CBH Australia]

Can I get an autographed copy of your book please,

Oh, yeah the Victorian GMA would disagree, in fact they disapprove.

Look at our Mexican mate down there. He just goes straight to the + .400 cals . No grey area, no debating with GMA and it sits Sambar on their bum.

 

[Badboymelvin]

Wonder why the .25 is illegal for Sambar there? Here in Colorado, USA it's .243 and up for big game. Although, IMO it should be .25 or maybe even .270 and up for elk and moose. Only because recently there have been a number of reported cases of elk being wounded by hunters using smaller calibers at DISTANCE. A few years ago, the Division of Wildlife was considering a .270 lower limit for elk and moose but it hasn't happened yet. Although, I know a guy I hunted with once who told me that over the years, he had taken six elk with his 6mm Remington using 100gr. Core Lokts, but all the shots were fairly close. He was using his 6mm Remington 700 on that hunt too but didn't get an elk that time. So, I guess shot placement is key at appropriate distances for the cartridge being used. But I agree with you Bob, that an appropriate .25 cartridge with a GOOD 120gr. bullet at a REASONABLE distance would anchor a Sambar or an elk. For me, I'll continue to use YOUR favorite .338 WINCHESTER MAGNUM for MY elk hunting because I don't want to be chasing any wounded elk through the mountains. LOL

Yep, I used a .Winchester M70 in 338WM as my deer/ Sambar rifle with 180gn Woodleigh's at 3100fps and 225gn Woodleigh's at 2800fps and it was excellent.
I love the .338WM... awesome cartridge

Russ

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Nah mate, all good. I don’t use any .25’s or Man Bun guns.
I was trying to to get a bite from the Whelen nut that only has 2 calibres in his vocabulary.25/.35



Careful, Russ had one of them too.

@CBH Australia
I have THREE CALIBERS mate .224, 25 & 35 so see in an a person that believes in diversity. Hell I even had a 44 at one stage.
I have a lot of CALIBERS in my vocabulary that I like 7mm some 30s the 264 Winchester magnum.
Ones that don't enter my vocabulary are anything 6mm, 270 or 338 and a lot of newer cartridges.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Can I get an autographed copy of your book please,

Oh, yeah the Victorian GMA would disagree, in fact they disapprove.

Look at our Mexican mate down there. He just goes straight to the + .400 cals . No grey area, no debating with GMA and it sits Sambar on their bum.

@CBH Australia
Shot a big sambar doe with a 444 Marlin loaded with 280gn Woodleigh rnsp @ 2,500 fps. Hit her that hard it knocked her into the next paddock.
The 270 was bang flop, the 308 was bang flop as well so the 25 with 120s would be fine.
If'n it works on big PG it will work on sambar.
Notice our Mexican mate has now decided on an 08 instead of the big 400
I don't think they are armour plated.
Back in the day 'ol Len Richardson thought the 279-303 was to much gun so he went for a wait for it a 243-303 loaded with 90gn sako bullets and said that was about ideal.
The difference between Len and the new generation is he knew how to stalk and shoot straight. Not saying our mate doesn't I know he does. A lot of shooters,not hunters use bigger CALIBERS to make up for a lack of skill.
There's a big difference between shooting and hunting. I've hunted with benchrest shooters that were brilliant off the bench but couldn't hit a rabbit if you tied it to the end of their barrel in the field.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Yep, I used a .Winchester M70 in 338WM as my deer/ Sambar rifle with 180gn Woodleigh's at 3100fps and 225gn Woodleigh's at 2800fps and it was excellent.
I love the .338WM... awesome cartridge

Russ

@Badboymelvin
And the 35 Whelen will do the same velocity with less fuss and bother but not really needed for deer or sambar but fun to use
I would be just as happy with a light 308 and some 150 accubond, Woodleigh or SST and for ranges upto 200 yards a nice 180gn round nose will sit them on their arse just as well.
The go big or go home arguments are fine but why beat your self up when smaller will result in dead when you do your part.
This year my 222 or 25 will get a work out and the 35 can have a rest and come out to play next year.
Must be getting old.
Bob

 

[CBH Australia]

Ones that don't enter my vocabulary are anything 6mm, 270 or 338 and a lot of newer cartridges.
Bob

.270

@CBH Australia
The 270 was bang flop,

.270

the 308 was bang flop as well so the 25 with 120s would be fine.
If'n it works on big PG it will work on sambar.
Notice our Mexican mate has now decided on an 08 instead of the big 400
I don't think they are armour plated.

Bob

I think I see an admission of using a .270 there.

The .308 is for Harry, an up and coming subsistence hunter.

It’s not the the hunting, stalking or placement that’s an issue in Victoria it’s the tracking and pack out. It seems plenty of Victorians like to ensure they stay down where they hit them because it’s often thick scrub and hard going.

I’m all for shot placement, Bang Flop and accurate rifles but if compensating for that margin of error.

I took my first Fallow with a .223, ate that and culled several more with .223 all head shots. Head shooting pigs with .223 is quite effective until its running and you body shoot and takes more than one shot. The rules and regulations apply in Victoria but they apply to all.

My mate from Deni uses a .25-06 a lot in recent years for pigs and Fallow. He likes the .325wsm for bigger stuff.