What additional caliber for my R8?

[ve7poi]

Neat rack idea like your design

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

@dchamp if you are heading out on safari and can't make up your mind which barrel or barrels to bring, then you might as well bring a bunch. Luckily, they make a case for that:

 

[BeeMaa]

Speed kills... game or barrels?

In the absolute, I totally agree with Beema:


In fact, most experienced people would say that the mild .308, for example, retains match accuracy for ~5,000 rounds, and the hot .22o Swift, for example, retains varmint accuracy for ~1,000 rounds, with people who shoot them reasonably (i.e do not shoot rapid fire 10 rounds strings). Hunting accuracy lasts a little longer, likely, say ~7,000 rounds for the .308 and maybe ~1,500 rounds for the hot rods.

In the hunting context, what does this mean?

We are talking hunting here, right?, which I would define in most cases as 1 round, and occasionally 2 or 3 rounds in a row, right?, maybe half a dozen to a dozen times per year (who gets more tags than that annually these days, right?), not rapid sustained fire like in military applications, or possibly varmint shooting, every week, right?

So, in the hunting (key word: hunting) context, what does 1,000 rounds life mean?

Assuming you shoot in your hunting rifle in your country of residence, say 2 boxes of ammo per year, which is a whole lot more than most hunters do, a 1,000 rounds barrel life equates to ... 25 years.

Say you are going to Africa once every few years and burn 50 rounds there, maybe the life of your barrel drops to 20 years...

Allow me to horrify the fraternity here, but I really, truly could not possibly care less if my hunting (key word: hunting) rifles do not have a 5,000 rounds life (= 100 years @ 50 rounds/year). I am entirely happy with 20 years, hence the 1,000 rounds life of the .26 Nosler, for example, is just fine and dandy with me


To me, there is very little that is more precious in a hunting (again, key operating word: hunting) rifle - assuming decent hunting accuracy - than a 300 yards MPBR (Maximum Point Blank Range). We are talking PG rifles here, this obviously does not apply to DG rifles! What this means is that from 0 to 300 yards, I just put the cross hair on the center of the vital zone and I fire.

• The .270 Win launching a 130 gr bullet at 3,140 fps has a 300 yards MPBR. I like this.
• The .257 Wby launching a 100 gr bullet at 3,600 fps has a 340 yards MPBR. This makes hunting shots easier for another 40 additional yards.
• A modern 6.5x55 load sending a 140 gr bullet at 2,600 fps has a 260 yards MPBR. From 260 to 300 yards, or say around 350 yards, which is a reasonable maximum range for hunting (key operating word: hunting), you need "Kentucky windage" or clicking the scope turret, which you may or may not have the time, or more commonly the presence of mind, to do...

So, to me, the advantage of living with the short barrel life of 1,000 rounds is that I essentially have an almost 100 yards of additional MPBR. It is well worth considering a new barrel every 20 or 25 years

If one of Tra3's objectives is "Montana antelope", I tend to think longer shots, hence longer MPBR, which I why I was therefore thinking speed...

I understand your view my friend and we will have to agree to disagree.

I do shoot a little more than 50 rounds a year, much closer to 250-500 per year in my 375H&H.
As I've just gotten my 300WM and 416RM and get the kinks worked out...they will be about the same.
Yes, of course I continue to shoot my 22lr much more than anything else for muscle memory...etc.
But I believe that developing proper technique involves constant live fire training with the caliber you intend to shoot.
Consistent and proper practice with the larger calibers will improve your chances when the chips are down.
It's muscle memory that is developed over time and repetition.
Don't believe in muscle memory...brush your teeth with the other hand...it's real.

And if I wear out a barrel in 10-15 years (5,000 rounds) I will be OK with that as well.
If I did it in just 2-3 years (1,000 rounds)...I would not.
The extra velocity isn't worth the wear in my eyes.
Besides, I'm too damn old to be shooting game (not varmints) beyond 350 yards.
I'll take my time and get closer.

Cheers mate.

 

[One Day...]

You are the rare bird BeeMaa, a lot of folks indeed shoot a fair amount to sight their rifles initially and get used to them in the beginning, then it is indeed an extremely rare guy who shoots 500 rounds of .375/.416 per year, but I do not doubt that you may be that guy, going to shoot 20 rounds of .375/.416 every other weekend, or if we exclude winter months, about every week in the shooting season. I admire the dedication

 

[BeeMaa]

You are the rare bird BeeMaa, a lot of folks indeed shoot a fair amount to sight their rifles initially and get used to them in the beginning, then it is indeed an extremely rare guy who shoots 500 rounds of .375/.416 per year, but I do not doubt that you may be that guy, going to shoot 20 rounds of .375/.416 every other weekend, or if we exclude winter months, about every week in the shooting season. I admire the dedication

About 10-12 rounds a session per caliber 3-4 times a month.
It depends on the seasons as you said.
I'm busy at work during the winter months and we miss some shooting time.
The wife and I make up for it during the warmer months.

Shoot straight my friend.
As always, much respect.
Cheers.

 

[One Day...]

Yep, my own stable and training regimen are a little different.

10 rounds per caliber per session would mean hundreds of rounds per session for me as I share my love between .243, 6 Rem, .257 Wby, .270, 7x64, 7x65R, 7 Rem, .308, .300 Win, .300 Wby, .338 Win, .340 Wby, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, .458 Lott, .470 NE, not to mention "military rifles" (I also shoot several hundred rounds per year in .223, .308 and .300 Win each in my Mark 11, 12 and 13 rifles), so by sheer math, whatever total number of rounds I fire from a hunting rifle each year gets divided between at least 10 rifles, hence each rifle life is multiplied by at least 10

Looking at dchamp's barrels rack I would suspect that he too must spread the shooting love between all these barrels and each one of these barrels is likely going to last him a lifetime

But in truth, after 40 years of shooting "seriously" (including competitive .22 LR 3 position Olympic, military and center fire shooting all the way to 1,000 meters), I have come full circle to the absolute personal certainty that - ONCE YOU HAVE LEARNED TO SHOOT CENTER FIRE RIFLES AND CONTROL RECOIL (very important caveat) - to practice and maintain shooting form, caliber does not really matter and nothing is better than the .22 LR because it has no recoil to hide mistakes. This is likely why Blaser wisely took the pain to produce a .22 LR barrel, bolt & magazine kit for their R8, because they surely did not design it as a cheap plinker for kids, did they?

So, I happily burn about 5,000 rounds of Thunderbolt per year at 150 yards off the sticks at a 6" steel plate, with a man-sized Winchester 52 with Zeiss glass, and I hardly shoot more than a few rounds from the hunting rifle I will be using on the upcoming hunt, to keep used to the feeling of recoil, whichever rifle I happen to chose for that hunt based on logical or emotional appeal at that moment. This seems to be working fine for me and muscle memory seems to transfer well from one bolt rifle to the next.

And since I do not change hunting loads willy-nilly (I was 100% Nosler Partition for 40 years and recently shifted to 100% Barnes TTSX), and I buy them typically 10 boxes at a time from the same lot, I have no need to re-sight rifles constantly.

Indeed, I surely shoot less than 40, and likely less than 20 rounds per year in average in each of my hunting rifles.

 

[Tra3]

Gentlemen, thank you for the helpful advice.
After reading your thoughts, more research and reflecting on personal experience, I think the .270 win makes the most sense. Here are my conclusions:
The .257 weatherby and 6.5-284 are less common, more expensive to buy ammo and essentially duplicated by various bullet weights in the .270.
The .308 is not as flat shooting (And is getting closer to the .300wm)
The .270 increased recoil and power will be good incremental step up for my son to practice with.
I hunted with a .270 for over 20 years.
2 of my hunting buddies use the .270 as well.
Ammo is everywhere and cheap.
Amazingly, I’ve never used the 110 grain bullets, so I’ll have to try them. I found the 130 and 150s to work on antelope, deer and elk.
Since I don’t reload, the other 6.5s are a bit light and duplicated by the 6.5cm. A fast 6.5 would be cool, but less common ammo and similar to the .270. The 26 nolser is awesome and essentially a .300wm. I don’t think an animal will know the difference between a .270 and a 26 nosler.

It is funny to go full circle and come back to the same advice given to my father when he bought me my first rifle years ago, I’m seeing that was good advice.

I agree with @BeeMaa about practice volume with the intended caliber. I typically bring 5 or so rifles to the range and cycle through them 3-4 shots each, then let the barrel cool. The .22lr and .17hmr get the heaviest workout. The Blaser .22lr kit is going to be a big help.

I’ll easily get 150+ rounds a year per hunting barrel, so longevity does have value.

Finally, I know after the .270 barrel I’ll discover another gap in calibers and be asking this question again!

 

[AES]

Just for some context: If you are cool with shooting 500 rounds of 300wm or 416 / year (as I certainly do @ $4-10/rd), the life or price of a replacement barrel is irrelevant. Yes, it is annoying to source a new barrel but it doesn't even come close to the price of the ammo you have expended through it.

 

[Surgeon1]

AS SOON AS THE DOORS OPEN IN AFRICA ILL BE HEADED THAT WAY. MY GIRLFRIEND AND I WILL BE USING 2 SHORT CUSTOM CASES WITH 2 R8's WITH 375H&H, 300RUM, 257 WBY BARRELS AND A 470NE DOUBLE. THE 257WBY IS GREAT WITH 120gr A-FRAMES ON SMALLER GAME AND EASY TO SHOOT. IF GOING BY MYSELF I HAVE A CUSTOM CASE THAT HOLDS 3 BARRELS, SCOPES, RECEIVER AND A DOUBLE RIFLE AT 68# IT WORKS WELL!
THE 257WBY IS A HAMMER WITH THE RIGHT BULLETS.

 

[Tanks]

... I now have a brace of R8’s with barrels in .375h&h, .300 win mag, 6.5 creedmoor and .22lr.
... I’d like to get a barrel I can use for Minnesota deer and MT antelope. I think the .300WM is too much for close range hunting in the woods.


What do you all suggest?

I'll also go with the .308, especially seeing that you do not reload. There is a big gap between the 6.5 and the .300WM and it fills it nicely.

 

[IvW]

some input on what small/medium caliber to get for my R8.

I think the .300WM is too much for close range hunting in the woods.

So, what do I get?

What do you all suggest?

Maybe I am too old fashioned for this or the trees in the woods referred to are very far apart......

257 WM, 270 WM.....for close range work in the woods????

Maybe I have Corona cabin fever.....

Lets keep it US, only 2 come to mind 30-06 and 308 WM in that order....

 

[TTundra]

Speed kills... game or barrels?

In the absolute, I totally agree with Beema:


In fact, most experienced people would say that the mild .308, for example, retains match accuracy for ~5,000 rounds, and the hot .22o Swift, for example, retains varmint accuracy for ~1,000 rounds, with people who shoot them reasonably (i.e do not shoot rapid fire 10 rounds strings). Hunting accuracy lasts a little longer, likely, say ~7,000 rounds for the .308 and maybe ~1,500 rounds for the hot rods.

In the hunting context, what does this mean?

We are talking hunting here, right?, which I would define in most cases as 1 round, and occasionally 2 or 3 rounds in a row, right?, maybe half a dozen to a dozen times per year (who gets more tags than that annually these days, right?), not rapid sustained fire like in military applications, or possibly varmint shooting, every week, right?

So, in the hunting (key word: hunting) context, what does 1,000 rounds life mean?

Assuming you shoot in your hunting rifle in your country of residence, say 2 boxes of ammo per year, which is a whole lot more than most hunters do, a 1,000 rounds barrel life equates to ... 25 years.

Say you are going to Africa once every few years and burn 50 rounds there, maybe the life of your barrel drops to 20 years...

Allow me to horrify the fraternity here, but I really, truly could not possibly care less if my hunting (key word: hunting) rifles do not have a 5,000 rounds life (= 100 years @ 50 rounds/year). I am entirely happy with 20 years, hence the 1,000 rounds life of the .26 Nosler, for example, is just fine and dandy with me


To me, there is very little that is more precious in a hunting (again, key operating word: hunting) rifle - assuming decent hunting accuracy - than a 300 yards MPBR (Maximum Point Blank Range). We are talking PG rifles here, this obviously does not apply to DG rifles! What this means is that from 0 to 300 yards, I just put the cross hair on the center of the vital zone and I fire.

• The .270 Win launching a 130 gr bullet at 3,140 fps has a 300 yards MPBR. I like this.
• The .257 Wby launching a 100 gr bullet at 3,600 fps has a 340 yards MPBR. This makes hunting shots easier for another 40 additional yards.
• A modern 6.5x55 load sending a 140 gr bullet at 2,600 fps has a 260 yards MPBR. From 260 to 300 yards, or say around 350 yards, which is a reasonable maximum range for hunting (key operating word: hunting), you need "Kentucky windage" or clicking the scope turret, which you may or may not have the time, or more commonly the presence of mind, to do...

So, to me, the advantage of living with the short barrel life of 1,000 rounds is that I essentially have an almost 100 yards of additional MPBR. It is well worth considering a new barrel every 20 or 25 years

If one of Tra3's objectives is "Montana antelope", I tend to think longer shots, hence longer MPBR, which I why I was therefore thinking speed...

Another great post @One Day...

Ive spent my adult life working in the hunting/shooting/outdoors industry and in speaking with countless end users of various products being manufactured and/or sold over the years, its evident that people will use whatever rationale they deem appropriate and inappropriate to help with decision making.

100% agree, for the overwhelming majority of hunters barrel life is a non issue. To the ones where it may be an issue, they are willing to spend the money to throw a new one on should that need arise. As they are the one spending hefty some's of money on custom rifles, actions, barrels, and reloading supplies, all the way down to concentricity gauges and more. A new stock barrel barrel pales in cost comparison.

Either way, a non factor in the decision making process of choosing the desired caliber. Get what you like for the reasons you want, and go shooting

 

[Tanks]

Yep, my own stable and training regimen are a little different....

So, I happily burn about 5,000 rounds of Thunderbolt per year at 150 yards off the sticks at a 6" steel plate, with a man-sized Winchester 52 with Zeiss glass, and I hardly shoot more than a few rounds from the hunting rifle I will be using on the upcoming hunt, to keep used to the feeling of recoil, whichever rifle I happen to chose for that hunt based on logical or emotional appeal at that moment. This seems to be working fine for me and muscle memory seems to transfer well from one bolt rifle to the next...

That is my training regimen as well. As a matter of fact I should be receiving a left handed Vudoo Gunworks .22 very soon to complement my .22 Anschutz that needs to be re-barreled.

I shoot the .22, switch to big bore(s) shoot 10-20 rounds each, switch back to .22 and then go shoot about 600 rounds of .40 S&W (in a 3-4 hour session)

 

[One Day...]

Maybe I am too old fashioned for this or the trees in the woods referred to are very far apart......
257 WM, 270 WM.....for close range work in the woods???? Maybe I have Corona cabin fever..... Lets keep it US, only 2 come to mind 30-06 and 308 WM in that order....

True enough IvW, but Tra3 outlined two scenarios:

I’d like to get a barrel I can use for Minnesota deer and MT antelope.

Hunting antelopes in Montana looks like this IvW. Sure, .30-06 and .308 can work, but a little reach and speed do not hurt, and I would take a safe bet that you will see more .257 Wby and the likes in Montana and similar great plain states than about anywhere else in the US

And of course if your rifle can reach an antelope in Montana, it sure can connect with a deer in Minnesota, but the reverse is not always true

 

[Tanks]

...Sure, .30-06 and .308 can work, but a little reach and speed do not hurt...

And of course if your rifle can reach an antelope in Montana, it sure can connect with a deer in Minnesota, but the reverse is not always true

Well, he has the .300 WM barrel for Montana I'd say.

 

[Tra3]

@IvW i think a .270 is more power than needed for a 30-60 yard shot in the woods. But is is awesome for the 400 yard antelope shots in Montana. I had thought to try some “reduced recoil” loads for the woods hunting to see if I get less meat damage. I never thought I would buy a box of those reduced recoil loads, but it makes sense for a close shot. I really need to just begin a reloading hobby.

Asking the same cartridge to go 400 yards as a flat shooter and 30 yards without too much meat damage isn’t really a fair question, so I guess I’m leaning towards more power.

what I really should do is just use the .375...

 

[IvW]

Well ok, these are strange looking woods....
The 6.5 CM would be perfect for this....

7x57mm/7mm08 would be perfect for this pity not available in R8.

Two vastly different areas, one caliber would not be perfect for all....

7x64 would have been a good compromise but ammo in the states will be a problem I imagine..

 

[Tra3]

Two range trips in the last three days! The .300 WM setup is sighted in. The .375h&h is also, but I need more practice with it.

This weekend I have relearned how much fun it is to shoot the .22LR. We finally got to test the .22lr barrel kit for the R8. It is absolutely worth the price paid. Finally, a full size rifle in a .22 that feels like a real gun. We shot hundreds of rounds at both the range and then around the cabin. Upon returning from the range, we continued to shoot the .22 in the yard. It is both accurate and realistic, but with a shorter cycle on the bolt.

 

[BeeMaa]

That's awesome.
What ammo are you using in your 300WM and 375H&H?

We are still waiting on our 22lr kit.
Had to special order it because we want the barrel threaded 1/2-28 with a protective cap.

 

[Tra3]

The range pictured had targets at 100, 200 and 300 yards and a gong at 520 yards up on the hillside in the pine trees. For ammo I am shooting some of everything! In the .300 WM 185 grain Berger’s by federal, 190 grain Barnes vortex LR. Next up will be nosler. The Barnes shot less than a 3” group at 300 yards from the prone position in the photo. The recoil device in the R8 ultimate stock works well. I’d say it takes about 20-30% of felt recoil out of the gun.

For the .375 I was shooting Nosler 300s, barnes 300, nosler solids and Hornady 250 grain. I need more practice with that caliber (read 5” group at 100 yards). None of the shooting was off a sled, forgot to bring it.

Btw: I have never been a fan of the human shaped gong targets. I’d like to rotate them 90% and hang tubular balloons for legs.