W&C Scott .600NE Shotgun Conversion ?

[Wishfulthinker580]

I don’t know what’s more concerning, the original problem seller or the seller who has it now who hasn’t realized or recognized the issue(s)

 

[Sarg]

It's a damn shame. I'm a real sucker for those beautiful Webley & Scott PHV-1 actions.

It’s Ok @Hunter-Habib that doesn’t look to be a PHV-1 action but has a Greener top fastener/Bite .

He must of got a good deal on .600 barrels & W.C Scott 10ga shotguns some where, on saying that I would be surprised if it wasn’t the same rifle, it got a little heavier some how & he is alluding to it being rebarreled by Scott at a later date ?

Hopefully the firearm or arms are safe enough but financially the owners are screwed over ?

 

[Red Leg]

@rookhawk is absolutely correct. This isn't just a rebuild, it is a counterfeit rifle. The electro pencil engraving should be obvious to anyone who has ever just held a British firearm. I am really surprised to see Dismal River offer this thing for sale. I have purchased a couple of very fine firearms from Dr. Steffen over the years, though the last was probably fifteen or more years ago.

 

[grand veneur]

W&C Scott is not Webley & Scott.

Webley & Scott invented the PHV-1 action. The dubious DR caliber 600 Nitro Express is, as @Sarg it write, built with a Greener action. One can see the cross-bolt on the side of the boxlock.

 

[rookhawk]

Also, no side bolsters on the action? You may find that feature missing from the occasional smallbore, or even on a bargain-basement modern double rifle built on a shotgun action, but you will not find a mega-stopper built without bolsters on the sides of the action.

 

[rookhawk]

Here’s another one. It was a real double rifle based upon the action shape, OR it was fairly proficiently filed down to create side bolsters. It has an extended top tang, so my vote is that this one really was a double rifle.

Notice anything similar to the OP gun and the fake August Schuler? The same style of quarter rib work? Same tale of “in from a European collection”?

Quite a cottage industry of making up 600NEs it appears.

MLBelgium 600 Nitro Express double rifle for sale

MLBelgium 600 Nitro Express double rifle for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

 

[Sarg]

The builder was some faker but used the same style on those sights also, he was close to doing a good job, making a replacement stock on that one but his attention to detail let him down, inletting is way off.

Still 20yrs back when I really really wanted a .577BPE/LN TLHL & was looking to have someone build me one on a big shotgun action, I would have loved to have his number !

I think that was a shotgun to start also, a fair few European Shotguns have side bolsters, even low grade ones, I have/had a few myself.

On checking the sellers site it is obvious they are forging multiple Double Rifles built on Shotguns & Shotgun actions, 45/70s a plenty & others by the looks, if in hand you could tell immediately, some have stocks built by the same guy/shop.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Here’s another one. It was a real double rifle based upon the action shape, OR it was fairly proficiently filed down to create side bolsters. It has an extended top tang, so my vote is that this one really was a double rifle.

Notice anything similar to the OP gun and the fake August Schuler? The same style of quarter rib work? Same tale of “in from a European collection”?

Quite a cottage industry of making up 600NEs it appears.

MLBelgium 600 Nitro Express double rifle for sale

MLBelgium 600 Nitro Express double rifle for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

Damn, I was actually initially hoping that this one was real. But I thought it quite unlikely.

So far as as my knowledge goes, only one real vintage Belgium made .600 Nitro Express double rifle exists to date- A Jules Bury boxlock non ejector (the company built only one).

 

[Sarg]

Damn, I was actually initially hoping that this one was real. But I thought it quite unlikely.

So far as as my knowledge goes, only one real vintage Belgium made .600 Nitro Express double rifle exists to date- A Jules Bury boxlock non ejector (the company built only one).

Would have been great to ask Cal about that as he was very into his .600NE & 4 Bores amongst others.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Would have been great to ask Cal about that as he was very into his .600NE & 4 Bores amongst others.

Definitely. His John Wilkes boxlock non ejector was a real thing of beauty. Only nine made in the entire world.

 

[rookhawk]

The builder was some faker but used the same style on those sights also, he was close to doing a good job, making a replacement stock on that one but his attention to detail let him down, inletting is way off.

Still 20yrs back when I really really wanted a .577BPE/LN TLHL & was looking to have someone build me one on a big shotgun action, I would have loved to have his number !

I think that was a shotgun to start also, a fair few European Shotguns have side bolsters, even low grade ones, I have/had a few myself.

View attachment 641874

Astute observations. I now agree with you, it wasn't a double rifle to begin with. The length of the water table is way too short. It was a shotgun. The top tang? Nice job welding it on to the action though! I initially fell for it.

 

[rookhawk]

Another counterfeit found by this same “maker”. A 45-70 double allegedly by the German master August Schuler.

august schuler double rifle 45 70 – HY-ND Arms

The faker has balls for sure, mediocre skills, yet he thinks his work is believable.

 

[PerH]

That one I remember from earlier posting

 

[Sarg]

Another counterfeit found by this same “maker”. A 45-70 double allegedly by the German master August Schuler.

august schuler double rifle 45 70 – HY-ND Arms

The faker has balls for sure, mediocre skills, yet he thinks his work is believable.

Yes as I said earlier more than one or two on their site right now, most likely had many more in the pass, like counterfeit money this could in crouch into the double rifle market to the uneducated & naive ?

https://www.hyndarms.com/product/simson-suhl-45-70-double-rifle/

You will note the stock work is similar to one of the .600NE above, done by the same guy/shop ?

 

[425SCHADE]

You could drag a cat through some of those gaps! And the poor screw heads...what did they do to deserve that treatment?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

W&C Scott .600 Nitro Express for sale

W&C Scott .600 Nitro Express for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

Pending…

 

[rookhawk]

W&C Scott .600 Nitro Express for sale

W&C Scott .600 Nitro Express for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

Pending…

Imagine the trail of tears leading from the buyer’s home to this thread when he finds it after purchase. (Which I guarantee he will as he looks for loads and details on shooting a 600NE)

Buddy, we tried to warn ya, we put this thread up as a service to fellow man but you didn’t do your pre-purchase due diligence.

 

[50Gunner]

Yep, those fake 600's are awful, not only dishonesty from the sellers, but I'd be scared to death from a reliability/liability standpoint, my ass and everything i own, as well as injury or death to others is not for sale for a few bucks on a BS rifle build, or anything else for that matter.

The only real 600's i've seen on that site are the excellent Wilkes boxlock of Cal Pappas and the beautiful sidelock from Giles Whittome, i contacted a guild stockmaker about the Whittome double getting it's forearm splintered and re-checkered, then the butt stock cut to proper LOP with a nice leather covered pad, the overall price of the rifle and work thereafter made it a no go.

 

[deewayne2003]

Imagine the trail of tears leading from the buyer’s home to this thread when he finds it after purchase. (Which I guarantee he will as he looks for loads and details on shooting a 600NE)

Buddy, we tried to warn ya, we put this thread up as a service to fellow man but you didn’t do your pre-purchase due diligence.

I noticed the import comment........

"With this collection we also imported a Best grade rare Simson and Co .577 Nitro Express 3″ the rifle is currently bein regulated in our Arizona shop and should be on our page in about two weeks."

Wonder if any of the perspective buyers have asked for the import paperwork of these rifles?

 

[rookhawk]

I noticed the import comment........

"With this collection we also imported a Best grade rare Simson and Co .577 Nitro Express 3″ the rifle is currently bein regulated in our Arizona shop and should be on our page in about two weeks."

Wonder if any of the perspective buyers have asked for the import paperwork of these rifles?

No clue. I'd love to know where these guns are coming from (I suspect Belgium for no reason other than gut) but they certainly would run afoul of CIP rules, EU law, and US law because of the fake proof marks and the removal of genuine marks. Would BATF care at such a small scale and since they aren't weapons of war? Not sure. Would the buyers care if they were spending 5-figures for guns that were utterly worthless? Probably.

There is a 577NE Belgian or French origin gun circulating the interwebs from the same electropenciler's hand too. I suspect we'll see more 577 and 600s incoming because they have the reamers and seem to have created a cottage industry out of this.

The only unknown in all of this is who's crooked and who is naive? I cannot determine who is "in on it" versus who is getting "duped".