Trump Reaches Out to Outdoor Enthusiasts

[wesheltonj]

Red Leg and Royal I will say that you make some very good points and I was fed some miss information i.e. The number of executive orders and yes it came from talk radio. I was under the impression that Obama had passed 921 ex orders which was supposedly the most. It clearly isn't the case and furthermore he hasn't passed that many.
.

Just remember:

(1) liars; (2) damn liars; and, (3) statisticians.

"It all depends on what the definition of 'is' is"

 

[Red Leg]

Who was that directed at?

 

[wesheltonj]

Who was that directed at?

Talking Heads, left and right.

 

[Red Leg]

concur

 

[Dragan N.]

An executive order to do just what exactly? Stop all hunting? In order to confiscate guns? How, exactly, would that be accomplished? Executive orders - yes even Obamas - are very narrowly written legal actions. Hank is absolutely correct, the legislative body, through the purse, has enormous power to limit the impact of any of those findings, even if they aren't eventually limited by an appellate court.

And our shared concern with imports has almost nothing to do with the president or this administration. This is a problem with the private and publically traded companies which provide that service. The publically traded ones, obviously, are particularly sensitive to public perception. If people - particularly institutional investors - dump their stock because the company is perceived to be profiting off of murdered Cecils, the stock value falls. If that happens, the CEO and senior officers get fired by the shareholders. And they are getting much larger doses of negative perception through emails, twitter, etc. than any counter engagement by a very limited number of sportsmen.

And I am not sure what we can do about it. Delta, for instance, has roughly 850 mil shares of stock supporting a 34 billion dollar company. Those shares are trading at around $40 a share. A 10% minority holder in Delta would have enough heft to force certain behaviors - like flying my buffalo home. Do the math - that would be somewhere north of a 300m dollar investment. Every sporting organization in this country could pool its resources and not buy up enough stock to force a behavior change in just one company. And our customer impact is equally marginal. It is one reason that SCI is going at this through the courts.

And somehow, electing a New York commercial real estate entrepreneur and reality TV star is going to fix all this? Only in America could we end up with a choice between that and an unindicted influence peddler who can't look after classified material.

I might be wrong here but the US ban on importing of polar bear, elephant, and now lion trophies is a government ban, it was if I am not mistaken recommended by the USFWS and is enforced by it. Canada for example has no such import bans and is in line with CITES policies when it comes to these species. Now correct me if I am wrong but a government ban on importing a certain species is very different from private airline/transport companies refusing to transport trophies. Government policies in regards to such bans definitely are related to who is in power. Although I think in the US this particular issue/policy is more of a systematic rather than administration(ie Obama) specific problem but that's another story.

 

[Red Leg]

I might be wrong here but the US ban on importing of polar bear, elephant, and now lion trophies is a government ban, it was if I am not mistaken recommended by the USFWS and is enforced by it. Canada for example has no such import bans and is in line with CITES policies when it comes to these species. Now correct me if I am wrong but a government ban on importing a certain species is very different from private airline/transport companies refusing to transport trophies. Government policies in regards to such bans definitely are related to who is in power. Although I think in the US this particular issue/policy is more of a systematic rather than administration(ie Obama) specific problem but that's another story.

A bit of both. USFWS has targeted both specific countries (elephant) and specific animals (polar bear/cheetah etc) regardless of a then current Cites determination. They are clearly more aggressive during Democrat rather than Republican administrations. Concurrently, several freight transport companies (LAN is the latest) have made their own determination not to transport some or, in some cases, any trophies. Those decisions were based upon the groundswell of negative input they received, particularly after the Cecil debacle.

 

[sestoppelman]

Robert, I am no fan of this administration, but we hurt ourselves when we sound like crazies to people leading normal lives out there. What law, specifically, has the President violated? I don't mean what law some fat rabble rouser on the radio, who is looking for ratings, says he broke. But what court, to date, has said that he has overstepped his power as Chief Executive? And don't tell me it is because "everyone in government is corrupt." They aren't. The vast majority of those judges in the federal courts, regardless of who appointed them, could be making a lot more money in private practice. That vast majority is dedicated to the law and its just application and correct interpretation. They aren't on the take - and because they aren't elected, they are immune from lobbying. The same is true of the vast majority of the people working in the various departments and federal agencies. They may interpret things differently than we would like sometimes, but the vast majority truly are doing their best. It is one reason why the bad apples make so much news when they come to light. Indeed, I would argue the most politicized court in the land is the Supreme Court. But if you look back to both Roosevelt administrations and the decade before the Civil War, it has always been so.

I pray that we can undo much of the damage that has been done our country, its culture, and its future prospects over the last seven years. That means a new set of political appointees need to redirect that federal bureaucracy (and maybe downsize it a bit). I just have very little confidence that a bloviating realty TV star with the demeanor of 16-year-old is the likely candidate to bring that about. I just have no idea what he intends. Take trade for instance. Are you supportive of tariffs and an ensuing trade war? You really want to pay 30-40% more for your next car or truck (I don't care where it was assembled - look under the hood and see where all those electronics were built)? He apparently intends no changes to entitlements, and talks about no meaningful cuts to federal spending. I don't know what he truly intends or believes.

And Robert, it is not that the Anti's have the government in their pocket through some vast conspiracy. How would they do that - exactly? The real problem is that most of our fellow citizens and most of that bureaucracy just don't consider our interests very much at all. We are too few and unlike our alter egos in the NRA, we are not truly organized.

Obama has indeed been taken to task for overreach by several courts in fact. The cases slowly wend their way to SCOTUS for final determination. Most high profile is probably his play to grant a sort of back door amnesty to illegals via his guest worker program or whatever it was. He got stomped by the lower court and that was upheld in the Appeals Court. This president given half a chance would literally declare himself King! We are not crazies and Rush Limbaugh is not just a fat rabble rouser. I assume you don't actually listen to what he has to say but rather get someone else's version of what he said. Because if you did actually listen to him, you would not be calling him names. You are beginning to sound like someone that listens to Media Matters! Consider this. If Hillary wins one term, she will win a second term, just like the moron we have now. If Trump wins, and I think he can, he will only get one term if he goes off the res like so many think he will. So in the end less damage to the country. Hillary can do way more damage in two terms than Trump can in one. And anyway its an academic discussion. As Grage points out. A vote for any other than the Republican nominee is a vote for Hillary. Third party votes just help the wrong person get elected, witness Bill Clinton. Thanks for starting this thread Robert!

 

[Red Leg]

Obama has indeed been taken to task for overreach by several courts in fact. The cases slowly wend their way to SCOTUS for final determination. Most high profile is probably his play to grant a sort of back door amnesty to illegals via his guest worker program or whatever it was. He got stomped by the lower court and that was upheld in the Appeals Court. This president given half a chance would literally declare himself King! We are not crazies and Rush Limbaugh is not just a fat rabble rouser. I assume you don't actually listen to what he has to say but rather get someone else's version of what he said. Because if you did actually listen to him, you would not be calling him names. You are beginning to sound like someone that listens to Media Matters! Consider this. If Hillary wins one term, she will win a second term, just like the moron we have now. If Trump wins, and I think he can, he will only get one term if he goes off the res like so many think he will. So in the end less damage to the country. Hillary can do way more damage in two terms than Trump can in one. And anyway its an academic discussion. As Grage points out. A vote for any other than the Republican nominee is a vote for Hillary. Third party votes just help the wrong person get elected, witness Bill Clinton. Thanks for starting this thread Robert!

This is a really good site for discussions of hunting. We should probably leave it to that. But to finish this out, you have no idea whatsoever what I do or don't listen to. You have no idea what I actually believe or upon what those beliefs are based. Apparently, facts are inconvenient for you, so you decide to throw insults at me. I am a member, life member, or endowment member of most of the major shooting and hunting organization in this country. I put my money where my mouth is. I have put my butt on the line for this country for a lot longer than most - I suspect a lot longer than you. I was in the Pentagon on 9/11 and lost friends and colleagues there. As the Army's Chief of Legislative Liaison, I was on the Hill that evening and for weeks after briefing members (both sides) on the aftermath and our war planning. I have commanded young people in theater who were sent into harms way by both parties. As a result, I think a citizen of this country has no more important duty than not to be played by either right or left when it comes to any issue. If that somehow offends you, I could not care less. Sure I listen to Rush - we agree about 60% of the time. The difference is that I also listen to MPR - we also agree about 60% of the time. I also listen to the BBC - ever turn to that channel? I refuse to be manipulated by demagoguery from either left or right, and it is a shame more of us don't take a more analytical approach to understanding what is actually going on in this country. Maybe we could get something done.

You and I would probably agree with respect to the damage this administration is doing to this country. I am sure we would agree that someone more conservative than Hillary would be better for the country. Where we differ is what evidence is there that Trump is such a person? This guy answers with no specifics. He's going to cut a deal and make America great again. Really? Exactly how? Right now, he doesn't have 50% of the republican vote and Hillary beats him by eight. Maybe that will change by November. What scares me is that I am not sure that it will matter if it does.

 

[sestoppelman]

We are aware of your past service to this country, you have mentioned it before. I thank you for your service. I don't think I insulted you, just noted your insulting of Rush Limbaugh by calling him a fat rabble rouser. Does his bodily weight somehow make him less worthy in his opinions? You listen to him and agree with 60 percent but still call him names? Honestly? By MPR I guess you mean NPR, National Public Radio? I don't listen to them anymore than I listen to any liberal nonsense channels on radio or TV. Liberal think is/has ruined this country, the one you defended in your service. I by no means have any respect at all for the liberal mindset, NONE! I am NOT open minded when it comes to the literal destruction of America as we used to know it. I have ZERO time for anyone who thinks that being open minded to liberal ideas is healthy. Its destructive to America and its people. Look around man! Are you not seeing what is happening to this country? Its not just Obama and his team, its the whole liberal ideology that is becoming so prevalent in our society. Its ruining America, flat plain and simple. If it takes voting for Trump to stop Hillary and her like, I will do it. He is not my first choice either, but if he gets the nomination he will get my vote, period. Because a vote for anyone else will be a vote for Hillary.

 

[Red Leg]

We are aware of your past service to this country, you have mentioned it before. I thank you for your service. I don't think I insulted you, just noted your insulting of Rush Limbaugh by calling him a fat rabble rouser. Does his bodily weight somehow make him less worthy in his opinions? You listen to him and agree with 60 percent but still call him names? Honestly? By MPR I guess you mean NPR, National Public Radio? I don't listen to them anymore than I listen to any liberal nonsense channels on radio or TV. Liberal think is/has ruined this country, the one you defended in your service. I by no means have any respect at all for the liberal mindset, NONE! I am NOT open minded when it comes to the literal destruction of America as we used to know it. I have ZERO time for anyone who thinks that being open minded to liberal ideas is healthy. Its destructive to America and its people. Look around man! Are you not seeing what is happening to this country? Its not just Obama and his team, its the whole liberal ideology that is becoming so prevalent in our society. Its ruining America, flat plain and simple. If it takes voting for Trump to stop Hillary and her like, I will do it. He is not my first choice either, but if he gets the nomination he will get my vote, period. Because a vote for anyone else will be a vote for Hillary.

Congratulations - you caught me in a typo. Does that make you feel smart in some way? My point is that we make better choices when we inform ourselves of facts - not when were are simply mouthpieces for one particular brand of propaganda. (sort of like only agreeing with only one set of gun writers' opinion of the .404). Facts, like all treasures, are where you find them. Ranting Rush talks about low information voters all the time. Limiting ourselves to one set of mouthpieces limits our opportunities to inform ourselves on those facts. If that is what you mean by being "open minded" then I will wear that label proudly. Anything else is the essence of "low information." And since you have ZERO time for such a person, then you and I, thankfully, have nothing else to discuss.

 

[sestoppelman]

For someone who has done all the things you say you have done and been everywhere to do it, you seem to have a very thin skin. Ditto your last sentence.

 

[gizmo]

This is exactly what scares me about the upcoming election. Everyone is angry and fed up in one way or another. I don't see a positive outcome from all of us who are on the same side being at each other's throats. I am a very opinionated person and am not bashful in expressing my opinion but that being said we all need to find some common ground and unite. If we don't we lose and America looses. Republicans, in general, are the worlds worst about taking our toys and going home if we don't get our way. The issue here is that everyone is pissed off. In someways that's good as it seems everyone is motivated to try and take our country back. Unfortunately we're attacking each other which is self destructive. We should focus on uniting and attacking the other side. As far as the elections go let the chips fall where they may and support whoever gets the republican nomination so we can beat and throw out the socialist bastards that are destroying this country. That's all I've been saying from the get go. Essentially United we stand and broken we fall. There is too much at risk to let the good hard working average American get caught up in the bickering and fighting. I stand by my original statement, if Bernie or Hillary win this election it's game over for us.

 

[Red Leg]

This is exactly what scares me about the upcoming election. Everyone is angry and fed up in one way or another. I don't see a positive outcome from all of us who are on the same side being at each other's throats. I am a very opinionated person and am not bashful in expressing my opinion but that being said we all need to find some common ground and unite. If we don't we lose and America looses. Republicans, in general, are the worlds worst about taking our toys and going home if we don't get our way. The issue here is that everyone is pissed off. In someways that's good as it seems everyone is motivated to try and take our country back. Unfortunately we're attacking each other which is self destructive. We should focus on uniting and attacking the other side. As far as the elections go let the chips fall where they may and support whoever gets the republican nomination so we can beat and throw out the socialist bastards that are destroying this country. That's all I've been saying from the get go. Essentially United we stand and broken we fall. There is too much at risk to let the good hard working average American get caught up in the bickering and fighting. I stand by my original statement, if Bernie or Hillary win this election it's game over for us.

Point taken. Thanks for the reminder that we all sometimes need to take a deep breath.

 

[Dragan N.]

For someone who has done all the things you say you have done and been everywhere to do it, you seem to have a very thin skin. Ditto your last sentence.

I don't really have a dog in this fight. But as far as RedLeg goes his opinions, thoughts, comments, advice etc... on hunting, firearms, ammo etc... are in my opinion always spot on and his posts are very informative and shows he is quite knowledgeable on the subject. Same goes with what I've read of his political beliefs, on here, even though I don't agree with him on a lot when it comes to politics. This is just based on what I've read from his posts on this forum.

From what I gathered from this exchange is that all he was trying to say is you have to understand an issue from many sides/perspectives in order to make the most informed decision about that issue/topic. Its bad I guess you could say for knowledge in general to label whoever you disagree with as a liberal, socialist, communist etc... and refuse to listen to anything they say. In the same way you probably wouldn't want left leaning people to label you as a fascist, Nazi etc...

 

[siml]

 

[sestoppelman]

I don't really have a dog in this fight. But as far as RedLeg goes his opinions, thoughts, comments, advice etc... on hunting, firearms, ammo etc... are in my opinion always spot on and his posts are very informative and shows he is quite knowledgeable on the subject. Same goes with what I've read of his political beliefs, on here, even though I don't agree with him on a lot when it comes to politics. This is just based on what I've read from his posts on this forum.

From what I gathered from this exchange is that all he was trying to say is you have to understand an issue from many sides/perspectives in order to make the most informed decision about that issue/topic. Its bad I guess you could say for knowledge in general to label whoever you disagree with as a liberal, socialist, communist etc... and refuse to listen to anything they say. In the same way you probably wouldn't want left leaning people to label you as a fascist, Nazi etc...

Those on the left already label us on the right thus. Who cares?? Like my old day used to say to us kids when they maybe called us names, " so what, do you believe them?" I only know one thing for sure, and that is the left/liberals are ruining what is left of this once great country. Two terms of Hillary will just about drive the last nail in the coffin. So no, I have no use for listening to the left and its disciples. Too many people already do, hence where we are today. I am not interested in getting along with the left. To me the left is represented by the likes of George Soros, Hillary, Obama, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Bernie Sanders, and the list goes on for a long time. They SUCK! If that makes me narrow minded so be it. I will take that. And anybody that doesn't like that don't have to reply to anything I say, just leave it be.

 

[robertq]

This is a great forum with hard working, down to earth people. It is easy to see that the replies are quite passionate and get heated at times but this is a good thing....it shows passion and need to unite. We are in the same boat be it workers or business owners.

We all agree that we need to elect a Conservative. The Republican Party, however, has lost its identity---when in recent history did you ever hear about how the GOP is threatening to not stand behind a nominee that is elected fair and square by the People with the required delegate count? How about change the rules if the GOP's puppet doesn't get the nomination? They are all but throwing kryptonite at Trump who has been nothing more than the voice of the People and someone who can't be bought. All this behavior AFTER he signed "The Loyalty Pledge To The Republicans". So the Republican Party is going to force YOU to vote for whoever THEY want. It really is that simple.

17 Conservatives threw their hat into the ring, but only 1 is a true Conservative. Trump is the only one who spent $10 million dollars versus over $100 million dollars spent by the others. Bottom line, even if Trump has a shortfall of 2 delegate votes (1235 instead of 1237), the GOP will force a brokered convention and nominate either Rubio or Romney. Not even Ted Cruz will have a chance to be nominated because no matter whatever delegates he receives, the GOP will not consider him since is not liked in the Senate and Lyndsay Graham stated on C-SPAN TV that if Cruz was shot on the senate floor, no one would get up to help him.

So are you going to let the GOP tell YOU who to vote for?