Threats to Hunting

[PARA45]

Everything listed above is a huge factor. However, we are our own worst enemy. Looking back at Cecil and look how many from this forum attacked and tried the hunter without having all the facts on the table, and we continue to do so. Look at the recent incident with the elephant at the park and see the responses.

We are a dying breed, and we will see the end of hunting in our lifetime. Some will say this will never happen. Yeah, well keep on dreaming.

Look how difficult is becoming to bring mounts back? Look at how many countries are banning the import of "trophies" mounts? Germany, Belgium, Britain, and who knows how many more will follow. Here in the US, Colorado has a proposal to ban Lion hunting. What's next? Some on here will not hunt if they cannot bring something back. I'll continue to hunt regardless of if I can bring something or not, the memories are mine and mine alone and no one can take them away from me.

Our guns rights are under constant attack too, and we can't seem to come to terms with this either. I hear the "I don't care if they ban ARs, I don't hunt with one, and it doesn't affect me". Really???

I also hear the we are better than that, don't argue, don't post pictures, don't give antis more ammunition, blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile the other side is using any and every opportunity to fight and lie against us, while we fight against each other because we don't like this type of hunting, this type of rifle, or because he wears camo, etc, etc.

Our grandkids will not know how lucky we were, they will never enjoy what we took for granted due to our own arrogance.

 

[BourbonTrail]

Rapid urban based culture shift to due to globalization and social media interconnectivity.

Gen Z is the first global culture, and the next generation will be even more so disconnected from their local heritage. This disconnect allows for removal of any non-dominant traits. Hunting isn’t the only lost vestige, it just matters greatly to those on this forum. Other items quickly disappearing are things like hospitality, local community, faith, patriotism, perseverance, grit, determination, etc. - all depending on the local culture.

Example- when my wife was getting her doctorate, she was confronted with a new cultural anomaly - “Grit is racist”. I’m not exaggerating or joking. The new culture considers fortitude and determination a racist social construct. This is the level of shift coming to the West and eventually all cultures.

 

[VertigoBE]

@PARA45

I do not think that the end of hunting is quite so close. For our children or grandchildren perhaps. After all human population is going to peak just under 10 billion people by around 2100, after which it will be in decline and animal populations could recover. And where animal populations are (with humans in the vicinity), some form of management will always take place.

I also do not think hunting in Africa is over, not for the PG, but not for the iconic DG either. In certain places there are simply too many elephants. Uncontrolled growth of apex predators in the neighbourhood of civilisation is another reason. I'm quite sure hunting in one form or another will continue. That it will be less accessible, more expensive than in the past? Obviously yes, the hey days of (African) hunting are long time past us. The SA model of game farms is probably the biggest bet that could insure the most continued activity of sport hunting for a visiting hunter.

What I am very pessimistic about however, is:
- Bringing trophies back home.
- Travelling with firearms.

These two are the likely reasons that the hunting industry will (need to) go in decline for some time, but it will not stop.

 

[mark-hunter]

And where animal populations are (with humans in the vicinity), some form of management will always take place

Depends.
The worst management is following:
Ban hunting, stack animals in few national parks. (And devastate the habitats, by various forms of "development" or encroachment, hoping that nobody will touch animals in these parts, by turning the blind eye to poaching).

However, I think that western type of game management, which is generally scientific based, and depending on hunting, will remain in some form. It is engraved in tradition and history, and is proven functional.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I think it partially depends on locality specific conditions. Or maybe I'm just projecting from my own corner of the world. An example: there are two caribou herds in my part of Alaska. The larger one used to be quite large (the Mulchatna Herd), and has now dropped - through a variety of factors - to population levels low enough that there is a moratorium, and probably will be for the foreseeable future. The native population isn't happy with that - they only see that they believe they should be allowed to hunt, irrespective of what population numbers suggest. There is a big push, federally in Alaska, for co-stewardship/co-management. If that happens, it will, IMO, be a huge threat to proper management, so maybe not a threat to hunting per se, but rest assured: it will affect hunting. I believe it already has, here anyway.

On a larger scale, when I see posts like this, I am often reminded of a story by MR James in Bowhunter magazine back in the late 90s. He did a "crystal ball" sort of story about where he thought the future of hunting was heading, and while it scared me to death at the time, I thought even then he was probably right. Anyone remember that article? He basically said that in a fairly short time, hunting would become a rich man's game, and it feels like it's trending that way to me. When I left KS (for the second time) in 2002 it was getting difficult to find land to gain access to hunt: much of it was being leased by out of state hunters. I have friends who have quit hunting because they can't find access, are frustrated with what's available on public lands, or don't have the financial means to gain access. That didn't use to be the case, and it's become more the case with each passing year. My solution? I moved to Alaska. I was never going to be able to afford to lease or pay for access as a KS public schools teacher. Up here, there is a lot of access to land, and it has also been my good fortune that I now have a job that gives me a bit more financial flexibility to do more with what I make - hence two trips to Africa.

Some of you on this site are in that group: those who can afford to lease land elsewhere to be able to hunt. I don't fault you for that at all; indeed I'm happy for you. But it is, IMHO, strangling hunting for some who have hunted or would hunt, for lack of opportunity. Like some of those friends of mine who threw in the towel - they decided to find other things to do that they could afford. Those are folks who would have more actively supported hunting, and probably raised kids who would have grown up hunting. It's more complicated than that, and as many have articulated there are a whole lot of threats to hunting. That said, I do believe this is one factor that will continue to grow in influence in the coming years: less people will hunt because they can't afford to, or they perceive the effort to do so isn't worth the cost. Losing hunter numbers will allow other threats to gain a stronger foothold. Frankly? I don't think hunting will look anything like it does today, in many places, by the time my kids are my age, if it even exists at all. I hope I'm wrong, but it sure doesn't look that way to me.

Disclaimer: I have not yet had coffee today so I apologize for any incoherence.

 

[Nyati]

Media manipulation

The Humane Society International claims that 85% of europeans are against international hunting.

A You Gov poll resulted that 77% of europeans are in favor, or not against the legal practice of hunting.

 

[Rare Breed]

So with the recent CBL decision, it was brought up, "that"or "this" is the biggest threats to hunting.

So not to hijack a thread, I thought I would ask, what do you think is the biggest threat to hunting?

Is it Anti propaganda? Is it loss of habitat? Social media (YouTube influences, faux hunting celebrity)? Poaching? Hunter infighting? China invades Taiwan causes WW3 and suddenly it doesn't matter anymore?

So to just to get this thread started. I personally think the biggest threat is the lack of opportunity causing hunter infighting. I believe this more applicable to hunting in America vs Africa. But seems to me America hunters will argue over season, style and tag allocation. And while we are arguing over tags, trying to influence seasons or regulations, slowly we have new laws popping up that take away even more opportunity. And it is kind of a vicious cycle.

If you go on other forums and read Resident tags vs Non Resident tags threads it gets pretty heated, you will even see case law going all the way to Supreme Court, it is kind of wild.

Anyways thought it would be interesting to see everyone's opinion.

While all your examples are certainly factors, I just finished Terry Irwin’s life story book which is fantastic and my biggest concern given I am narrowing my opinion to Africa is the political turmoil with countries either stopping hunting or just making terrible mistakes that become the greatest threat to hunting

 

[Rare Breed]

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

—Martin Niemöller

Okay I’m impressed my friend!!!!!

 

[PARA45]

My good friend who hunts with me, and we both were part of the hunting lease did an estimate of how much we spent a year just to hunt whitetail deer, and we about sh*t ourselves of the amount.

- Lease - $1200-2400 a year
- Winter food plot - $1000, not counting our time, and the equipment needed to plant
- Protein - $12 per bag x 2 bags x 4 feeders = $96.00 per month
- Corn - $9 per bag x 3 bags x 4 feeders = $108.00 per month

Not counting fuel, processing deer, etc, etc. We would be better off buying a cow and having it process, and probably come out ahead. These prices are not 100% accurate, I based this on what I remember paying last year.

I can see how this is becoming out of reach. The person who bought the place we hunted came from FL and paid cash for the property.

 

[Kalthoff]

In my country 3,4% of the population age 16 and above have a valid hunting license. This level has remained about the same for several decades. (we have to pay a yearly fee for a hunting license, therefore the numbers are quite accurate).

The ratio of female hunters is increasing. 7% of the hunting licenses in my country are held by women.

We are our own best or worst ambassadors, depending entirely on our own behavior.

I try to do my part by serving venison to guests and by giving venison away to friends and family when I have a surplus.

The dinner table provides a good atmosphere to speak about hunting and country life to city people

 

[mark-hunter]

Gen Z is the first global culture, and the next generation will be even more so disconnected from their local heritage. This disconnect allows for removal of any non-dominant traits. Hunting isn’t the only lost vestige, it just matters greatly to those on this forum. Other items quickly disappearing are things like hospitality, local community, faith, patriotism, perseverance, grit, determination, etc. - all depending on the local culture.

This is one of the best definitions of the challenges that our society is facing today, in general, and in all spheres of life. This in the long run dilutes our civilization legacies. Hunting is therefore affected and faces same faith.

 

[IvW]

Sadly some mebers here are themselves threats to hunting......

 

[LivingTheDream]

I should highlight this, I think people that want to hunt in their home state/country will always have the opportunity. In the future, it might not be the opportunity we had or have today but we will have to adjust and change to that. But it will always be there in some form.

I am extremely pessistmistic about the future of international, non resident (for those in the states). Hunting is becoming very tribal, and we are fighting amongst our tribes.

 

[Hogpatrol]

The biggest threat to hunting? The hunters themselves. We/us/they can't seem to coalesce around just continuing the tradition. Instead, bitch about autoloaders for big game, shooting at anything over 100 yards, long range hunting, taking younger animals, taking specific animals ("I'd never shoot a *****) using a crossbow instead of a bow, shooting over a waterhole, shooting from a truck, shooting from a blind, shooting from a treestand, using bait, using the wrong cartridge/caliber, Remingtons are junk, factory guns you own are junk, AD NAUSEUM, AD INFINITUM! These scenarios come up on this and other sites and while we're verbally shooting at each other, the anti-s are sitting back and saying "those dumb asses" and winning. Short and sweet, we're like Trump, we just don't know when to keep our fkn mouths shut and our opinions to ourselves. Full disclosure, I'm just as guilty as the next guy.
Having said that, in the U.S. after WW2, the vets and their offspring (baby boomers) were the main hunter demographic. The WW2 guys are gone, and the boomer hunter numbers are declining. The result is less of a voting bloc to maintain the status quo. The anti-s have one goal, the end of all hunting, and they don't fight amongst themselves on how to get that done. Meanwhile, back at the forums.

 

[Saul]

Lots of great comments above.

In my opinion, the greatest threats are habitat loss, wildlife mismanagement, generational change, and hunters themselves.

The places that we need to keep the most wild also have the fastest growing populations, and those people do not care about conserving these habitats.

Specifically to Africa, I fear that all it will take is one country with a corrupt government auctioning off as many permits as they can with no regard for proper wildlife management in order to make a quick buck. That is all the evidence a lot of other countries will need to enact more bans.

With each generation, we get further away from nature and our food. It is not the vegans/vegetarians that are the threat to hunting, it is the vast majority of people who eat meat with no consideration of where it comes from or what happens to get it. Of course hunting seems violent and cruel if you have never thought about what happens in a slaughterhouse.

As with most things, all it takes is a few bad apples to spoil the bunch. What we need to be doing is changing minds, but at least in my experience, there are quite a few hunters who would rather antagonize and mock anyone who does not agree with them. Throw in political polarization and we could very well lose the ability to reach a vast majority of people. And that is before we even get to things like the impact that distasteful pictures and practices have in public perception.

 

[Speedster]

I agree with Tundra Tiger. Hunting has completely changed with private land being near impossible to get permission anymore unless you have the cash to lease it. For a lot of young hunters with limited resources this is and will be a big detriment to getting involved. Maybe small game like squirrel or rabbits but deer or larger game is out of the question anymore.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I agree with Tundra Tiger. Hunting has completely changed with private land being near impossible to get permission anymore unless you have the cash to lease it. For a lot of young hunters with limited resources this is and will be a big detriment to getting involved. Maybe small game like squirrel or rabbits but deer or larger game is out of the question anymore.

Pennsylvania has 1.5 million acres of state game lands and 2.2 millions more of state forest land. The vast majority of it is big game habitat. I've hunted both. Getting there and finding a good area can be a problem for hunters who are pressed for time.

 

[375Fox]

I agree with Tundra Tiger. Hunting has completely changed with private land being near impossible to get permission anymore unless you have the cash to lease it. For a lot of young hunters with limited resources this is and will be a big detriment to getting involved. Maybe small game like squirrel or rabbits but deer or larger game is out of the question anymore.

Where are you located? Getting free access to private land for deer hunting in western Pennsylvania is incredibly easy and we have a lot of public land too. I don’t know anyone who pays to hunt. Places like Texas shock me where all access is restricted unless you pay.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Where are you located? Getting free access to private land for deer hunting in western Pennsylvania is incredibly easy and we have a lot of public land too. I don’t know anyone who pays to hunt. Places like Texas shock me where all access is restricted unless you pay.

And the Farm Bureau is lobbying for Sunday hunting (yes, Pennsy game laws are still stuck in the last century) because the deer damage to crops is so bad.

 

[Wiley64]

I’m actually really encouraged lately… I think Joe Rogan has brought a ton of good attention to hunting and I find a lot of his non-hunting listeners have + attitudes about what it is that we do. Need more celebrity voices like him that don’t care about backlash from the uninformed. The health benefits of wild game meat should make this all a very simple argument to win.