Thoughts on Tuskless Hunting

[TTundra]

BTW @TTundra. Love your new avatar.

Thanks @PARA45 ! I count my blessings still everyday to have had that hunt!

 

[Backyardsniper]

I am curious what price are you paying for tusk less elephant hunts?

The going rate seems to be $4500-$5500 for tuskkess trophy fee. Daily rates and all it is about on par with a buffalo hunt.

 

[Nhoro]

Do some Zim hunting areas have more tuskless animals than others

Tuskless elephant are not what I would call common in any areas but I have never seen any acurate numbers from game counts. I would guess that maybe 1/30 to 1/50 of elephant cows and much less for males. Zambezi valley areas are known for tuskless elephants but they occur all over Africa. Zimbabwe has quite a few elephant and used to be quite progressive in management .Actual data is sketchy because of the anti hunters talking rubbish all over scientific papers about elephant evolving to lose their tusks-truth is poachers don't shoot tuskless. The survivors are tuskless-not evolved. Kruger park has approx. 2 % tuskless based on fairly trustworthy data. I would guess Zambezi valley has a higher percentage but not the 10 % claimed by evolutionist anti-hunters. So I reckon 3-4 % is about right in Zambezi and less in other areas.

As for hunting any animals, we have already taken their space and habitat. Management is not negotiable. So let us manage the wildlife in the least intrusive way possible- preserve genetic diversity and balance. Hunt animals which are old,past their prime. Find a way to balance smaller tusked/large tusked/male/female hunts using economics.

 

[Green Chile]

I was told 10 years ago that tuskless population in Zim was around 3%. I think that was more specifically a reference to Zambezi valley. I think 10% is way too high. We know that tuskless is a genetic trait that is actually undesirable for elephants as it makes them more aggressive.

 

[deewayne2003]

The going rate seems to be $4500-$5500 for tuskkess trophy fee. Daily rates and all it is about on par with a buffalo hunt.

Agreed, my July 2024 tuskless hunt with D&Y is $1,000 cheaper than a buff hunt.

I had actually left the 2022 DSC show and made the drive home then got a message from @Rare Breed saying that there may be an opening with D&Y for July 2024….

I talked with some trusted people about D&Y and they ALL came back with glowing reviews.

I then made the drive back to the show and located Dalton who was packing things up, only to have him inform me that all tuskless had been booked up for 2023 & 2024!

I was disappointed but relieved at the same time as this would be the most expensive hunt of my life and perhaps an elephant hunt on my first trip to Africa was too optimistic.

Then York walks up and announces that someone just backed out of a 2024 tuskless….. Dalton looks at me and the words “I’ll take it” register in my ears before I realize I’ve spoken and hand shakes & email addresses were exchanged - dates booked and deposit made within 3 days.

 

[rookhawk]

Do some Zim hunting areas have more tuskless animals than others

Yes. Tuskless genetics are common in the Zambezi Valley. They are uncommon or rare in other areas of Zim and the rest of Africa.

The caveat emptor with tuskless elephant hunts is that you are attracting the wrong kind of attention from operators. There are operators that have tuskless permits (their cost, $4000-$6000) and they need to earn a living. They cater to people looking for cheap-cheap elephant hunts. Naturally, that creates an incentive for some operators to sell hunts that have no chance of harvesting a tuskless whatsoever, they just wanted to extract daily rates out of you.

There are 20lb elephant hunts on this forum all-inclusive, exportable, for $15k. There are 40-70lb elephant hunts, exportable, for $23k-$26k. Why anyone would like to risk getting screwed over on a tuskless hunt to save a few pennies over a Bull hunt at those prices is besides me.

But some people do it, enjoy hunting maize fields while shining them at night, saving a few bucks, etc.

The only place a tuskless makes sense for me is a.) you're already on a DG hunt in the Valley, b.) it's a cheap add-on for more bag, c.) they are in good numbers in the concession, and d.) the terrain is fairly open so you can keep an eye on your 6.

 

[Green Chile]

There is nothing wrong with a tuskless hunt and it's not less of an elephant hunt. No less than Buzz Charlton has said that. Some people jump up every time it's mentioned to say how bad it is, how unsporting it is, how shady it is. I will keep jumping up to say that's a broad brush and doesn't even begin to cover it correctly. Shady operators eh? Dalton & York, Charlton McCallum and Chifuti (when they were running) are anything but that. Maize fields with spotlights? How about Makuti and tracking elephants as they climbed the rocky hills like elk. I could have killed multiple bulls on that hunt easily but the tuskless was a tough, tough hunt and a lot of fun. Tuskless is a bargain way to get a cool experience. As always, do your research and buy carefully. That goes for anything. I'm going for ivory next week but will do tuskless again. It's an interesting experience and a legit elephant hunt.

 

[Tanks]

...

But some people do it, enjoy hunting maize fields while shining them at night, saving a few bucks, etc.
...

Ummm, I will disagree.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Tank, which Zim hunting area is that

 

[rookhawk]

There is nothing wrong with a tuskless hunt and it's not less of an elephant hunt. No less than Buzz Charlton has said that. Some people jump up every time it's mentioned to say how bad it is, how unsporting it is, how shady it is. I will keep jumping up to say that's a broad brush and doesn't even begin to cover it correctly. Shady operators eh? Dalton & York, Charlton McCallum and Chifuti (when they were running) are anything but that. Maize fields with spotlights? How about Makuti and tracking elephants as they climbed the rocky hills like elk. I could have killed multiple bulls on that hunt easily but the tuskless was a tough, tough hunt and a lot of fun. Tuskless is a bargain way to get a cool experience. As always, do your research and buy carefully. That goes for anything. I'm going for ivory next week but will do tuskless again. It's an interesting experience and a legit elephant hunt.

My points stand. I've been on about 14 safaris in Zim. Over that time, I've seen one tuskless in the Valley of the countless elephant I've encountered. Obviously I wasn't hunting tuskless so that doesn't mean there weren't more, but they are uncommon in most areas. So fact one is you're looking for a needle in a haystack in many areas. If tuskless are 3% of the population you're assuming you'll get on the spoor of no less than 33 elephants to have a chance at a tuskless...slim odds indeed.

Fact two as I explained, is there are many operators selling tuskless hunts that should also include a free tag for a unicorn. Caveat emptor, desperate operators may need to pay rent and they are banking on the daily rates to guide you on something that may not exist where they are hunting. Not all are this way of course, but a hunter seeking cheap is a good karma match for a broke operator trying to sell something they don't have.

Fact three is that if you're seeking cheap thrills, the tuskless hunts often go part and parcel with hunting elephants in the villages at night in the maize fields. (crop raiders) So the high adventure in the bush can quickly become shining flashlights on raiders looking for one without teeth.

It comes down to mentality. I always start with the question: what is the best, the finest, the most desired? I then try to figure out how to shoehorn myself into that with frugality. That's a different mentality than starting bottom-up with "what's the cheapest?".

The answer to "what's the cheapest?" in every aspect of my life has always been a good/service/experience that I did not want.

And I'm by no means affluent, just a middle class guy the tries to be a good steward with my time and money.

 

[Tanks]

Tank, which Zim hunting area is that

Nyakasanga

 

[rookhawk]

Nyakasanga

Good area.

 

[Tanks]

My points stand. I've been on about 14 safaris in Zim. Over that time, I've seen one tuskless in the Valley of the countless elephant I've encountered. Obviously I wasn't hunting tuskless so that doesn't mean there weren't more, but they are uncommon in most areas. So fact one is you're looking for a needle in a haystack in many areas. If tuskless are 3% of the population you're assuming you'll get on the spoor of no less than 33 elephants to have a chance at a tuskless...slim odds indeed.

That is the problem with anecdotal information, people's experiences vary. On my last two hunts (2021, 2022) I saw 8 tuskless. Now, not all were shootable. In 2021, we approached and looked at over 100 elephants before we found a tuskless without a calf that was not in the middle of a herd.

It comes down to mentality. I always start with the question: what is the best, the finest, the most desired? I then try to figure out how to shoehorn myself into that with frugality. That's a different mentality than starting bottom-up with "what's the cheapest?".

A tuskless, if one wants to shoot an elephant is good value. Most of the time the trophy fee is less than that of a buffalo bull. Not to mention it is much more challenging than a buffalo hunt. There are also outfitters like CMS that will do a proper hunt for them instead of the night hunts.

If I just want to shoot an elephant, I don't see the need to shoot a tiny bull with tusks less than 50 lbs and pay 2-4X the cost of a tuskless hunt. Now, I do want to shoot a proper trophy bull this year, hence why I am headed to Kazuma area in 21 days where average were over 60 pounds a side for the last several years.

 

[Backyardsniper]

I hunted Nyakasanga in June and we were eyeball deep in elephant and there was no shortage of tuskless. We sorted through LOTS of elephant and several tuskless. I would say we saw 4 or 5 tuskless before I killed mine. Some had calves and two or three did not but we just couldn't get a shot. One showed up while we were in the middle of a herd of buffalo. The tuskless hunt is a great hunt and even if I go on a bull hunt, I will likely try to do tuskless as well while I'm there. It brings a very high level of adrenaline and a whole lot of experience tracking and being in amongst herds of elephant.

 

[TTundra]

My Elephant was an add on to a Buffalo hunt. Costs were that of what @Backyardsniper posted above. If I were to have added a Trophy Bull tag should one have been available (and we saw some nice bulls) it would have been 3X the cost of the Tuskless or Tusked Cow tag.

We saw Tuskless everyday while hunting, albeit much more tusked cow and bull. I did not take note of how many with calves, but I'm sure most did. Either way, this hunt allowed me (and clearly many others) to experience the realm of elephant hunting, tracking on foot, during the day, thru thick country, and in close proximity to the rest of the herd(s). Due to this experience, I will plan a Trophy Bull hunt, but I may not have gone down this road without the opportunity to hunt a T/L or tusked cow at a fraction of the price.

 

[Backyardsniper]

My Elephant was an add on to a Buffalo hunt. Costs were that of what @Backyardsniper posted above. If I were to have added a Trophy Bull tag should one have been available (and we saw some nice bulls) it would have been 3X the cost of the Tuskless or Tusked Cow tag.

We saw Tuskless everyday while hunting, albeit much more tusked cow and bull. I did not take note of how many with calves, but I'm sure most did. Either way, this hunt allowed me (and clearly many others) to experience the realm of elephant hunting, tracking on foot, during the day, thru thick country, and in close proximity to the rest of the herd(s). Due to this experience, I will plan a Trophy Bull hunt, but I may not have gone down this road without the opportunity to hunt a T/L or tusked cow at a fraction of the price.

That's 100% right there bro. Tuskless is the gateway drug I would never have booked my bull hunt for 2026 if I had not hunted tuskless on this trip. Tracking those herds in the thick stuff is an amazing experience.

 

[Green Chile]

Gateway drug indeed! Since doing my tuskless over 15 years ago, I've done most of the big 5 and chase DG anytime I get the opportunity. It's a fun and challenging hunt if you pick the right operator (as with anything). I barely chase PG since I like DG so much. We're all wired differently but that's been my experience. No regrets and I do look forward to tuskless again. You can only bring so many trophies home. I will also be doing more non-trophy DG hunts in the future. They are a lot of fun.

 

[TTundra]

@Backyardsniper @Green Chile

Next day after a non trophy Ele hunt...

 

[rookhawk]

Point of order:

We know that small bull hunts, all-in are $15,000 on this site. What is a tuskless hunt from one of the successful hunters above @Green Chile, @TTundra , @Tanks running all-in?

Considering the odds of success are lower, then adding in tips and airfare, what percentage savings was accomplished for the total hunt?

 

[Backyardsniper]

Point of order:

We know that small bull hunts, all-in are $15,000 on this site. What is a tuskless hunt from one of the successful hunters above @Green Chile, @TTundra , @Tanks running all-in?

Considering the odds of success are lower, then adding in tips and airfare, what percentage savings was accomplished for the total hunt?

That depends on if you want to go with the dude who is charging $15,000. Maybe a tuskless hunt with a top end outfitter like D&Y is just a better all around experience. I'm not saying these other guys are not high end outfitter, because I don't know who they are, but it seems to me a $15,000 all in bull hunt would have a high chance of being that corn field spot light hunt you were talking about.